jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

General Discussion about large electric scooters and motorcycles and other things with no pedals.
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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by Ohbse » Aug 17 2015 5:40pm

Wow! Power is very impressive. You must be hitting that 6kwh pack pretty hard to be delivering that at the tire! How's the cell temperatures at the end of a session?

Have you got any plans on how to shed 30kg? Is that even possible while retaining the same driveline?

Very impressive as always Chris.

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Post by jonescg » Aug 17 2015 7:14pm

The 10 Ah pack is delivering a maximum of 272 amps (27C). In order to get 172 kW to the road we must be seeing very little sag. The thermisters are set to go off at 50'C, and they only start to warn us after the second race in the afternoon. The IR probe indicates that they are rarely over 50 degrees after a race.

How to shed 30 kg? Don't know. 10 or 15 is okay. We can remove about 3 kg from the motor plates, about 2 kg from the fairings (carbon versus fiberglass) maybe up to 1 kg from the sprockets. If we can get a high end set of forks, we might shed another kilo. It's possible to shed another 10 kg from the battery pack with new high-end cells, but to be honest I think we can't go any smaller in capacity. My preference would be to maintain the same 56 kg pack mass and install more kWh. Lighter rims would give us another ~7 kg too. So getting it under 200 kg is very achievable, but 180 kg will be tough.

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by Hillhater » Aug 17 2015 10:16pm

You need to recruit a skinny 10 yr old rocket jockey ! :o :mrgreen:
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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by Nuts&Volts » Aug 21 2015 9:18am

Or slap a Emrax 268 on there and save 20kg up front. The MV model would be almost a direct swap torque and RPM wise. Just a slight gearing adjustment

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by Mike Edwards » Aug 21 2015 3:01pm

Nuts&Volts wrote:Or slap a Emrax 268 on there and save 20kg up front. The MV model would be almost a direct swap torque and RPM wise. Just a slight gearing adjustment
The spec. figures for the Emrax 268 aren't tested according to the manufacturer. It is also designed as an 'outboard' motor rather than an 'inboard' one so there will be additional cooling challenges, etc.

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by Nuts&Volts » Aug 21 2015 5:31pm

Mike Edwards wrote:
Nuts&Volts wrote:Or slap a Emrax 268 on there and save 20kg up front. The MV model would be almost a direct swap torque and RPM wise. Just a slight gearing adjustment
The spec. figures for the Emrax 268 aren't tested according to the manufacturer. It is also designed as an 'outboard' motor rather than an 'inboard' one so there will be additional cooling challenges, etc.
Buckeye Current has had no issues with the Emrax motor. Yes it may need more cooling, but right now his motor (well bike) weighs too much from the sound of it. So get a lighter motor and then improve the cooling if needed. Bike will run faster according to Jones.

Buckeye current also tested it on the dyno to verify the specs

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by jonescg » Aug 22 2015 6:47am

I daresay that Evo-GKN could also refine the AFM140 further. There's probably a fair bit of mass in the motor that needn't be there. However it was the best motor at the time. And that time was about 3 years ago. No reason you can't fit a lighter motor in there, but for reliability and power we sure can't fault it.

The chassis is surprisingly heavy for a chromo trellis, and we're going to need more capacity in the battery, not less. And mass isn't everything - Randy Mamola can ride that Ducati with another person onboard at some impressive speeds:
Image

Suspension and geometry is probably the next big gain.

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by Mike Edwards » Aug 23 2015 5:07pm

Nuts&Volts wrote:
Mike Edwards wrote:
Nuts&Volts wrote:Or slap a Emrax 268 on there and save 20kg up front. The MV model would be almost a direct swap torque and RPM wise. Just a slight gearing adjustment
The spec. figures for the Emrax 268 aren't tested according to the manufacturer. It is also designed as an 'outboard' motor rather than an 'inboard' one so there will be additional cooling challenges, etc.
Buckeye Current has had no issues with the Emrax motor. Yes it may need more cooling, but right now his motor (well bike) weighs too much from the sound of it. So get a lighter motor and then improve the cooling if needed. Bike will run faster according to Jones.

Buckeye current also tested it on the dyno to verify the specs
The manufacturer couldn't confirm the specs. and was very open about them all being very theoretical at higher voltages. Not seen anything from Buckeye aside from the fact they were going to be doing some testing

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by jonescg » Sep 19 2015 10:57pm

Good day to all and sundry!

I'm sitting in a bed at the Fort Garry hotel, 8 floors up overlooking the city of Winnipeg. A family dinner tomorrow and we fly back to Vancouver for a few days before returning to Australia.

Voltron will be at Wakefield Park Friday next weekend for round 4 of the eFXC. I fly into Sydney (from Vancouver) that morning. So if anyone in Sydney can offer me a ride up to Goulburn, that would be fantastic. I have literally run out of money, so I can't even afford a bus ticket.

The Varley guys will be very kindly bringing our bike up, and Pottz will be flying in Thursday night to help set up. It's going to be a pretty lean weekend for me, but hopefully the racing will be fast and close.

If you live in Sydney or around Goulburn, please come along and watch the electric bikes!

See you there!

Chris

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by jonescg » Sep 22 2015 5:04pm

Thanks to Grinhill I have a ride to the track :D

I dropped into the Tesla show room here in Vancouver for a bit of a look around and a chat. First time I have ever seen a Tesla showroom, although they didn't have the cut-away floor plan like I'd hoped.

Wakefield Park (Goulburn, NSW) is looking to be cool and cloudy. Great for keeping battery temps down, and tyre temps...

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by Hyena » Sep 22 2015 7:23pm

jonescg wrote:Thanks to Grinhill I have a ride to the track :D
Good man, I have to work and was going to offer you my R15 but she'd be a bit buzzy with all those highway miles!
If anything changes with Grinhill I'll shout you a bus ticket. Keep in mind Goulburn is South of Sydney. I know, all this non-desert geography is confusing :lol:
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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by jonescg » Sep 28 2015 2:36am

Well that was a tough round.

The fourth round of the eFXC class at Wakefield Park started with Pottz arriving on the Thursday and sleeping in his swag by the side of the road. The next morning the Varley guys showed up with their bike and Voltron, as they had kindly agreed to store it and carry it to the track for us. It was a cold but dry day's practice.

I arrived into Sydney International Airport after a month in Canada visiting the inlaws and generally being broke. I scored a lift up to the track where Pottz was putting in some 1:12s but needed to find a few more seconds as Jason was doing some 1:10s. It was tough because we were on the same Bridgestone rear which is crap in cold weather, and the same Metzler front which had done 3 rounds already. Luckily we could stay with Tony in Canberra for the weekend, so no more roadside camping

Saturday was wet. Cold and wet. Shagged slicks and cold wet weather makes for some slow racing, especially when you are the first bikes to head out in the morning. There was enough dry track to make it worth while. Ripperton had his 3 year old wets on, and this gave him the confidence to get out in front and stay there. Pottz managed to steal second place from Jason at the last turn, while David on the Zero made fourth.
After race 1 small.jpg
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Race two was pretty wet also, and as always, it was the last race of the day when all the warmth of the track had been re-radiated into space. It was a slower affair, with Potts even changing places with David on his Zero. He pulled off a safe, points-collecting third place. Ripperton and Jason had a drag race to the line, with Jason pipping him by a mere 0.007 seconds!

Sunday's race three was shaping up to be a much better affair, with bright sunshine and light winds. Our tyres were still shagged, but the track was getting warmer. On lap one, Pottz was sliding everywhere up the hill and out of the fish-hook. He dived up the inside of Jason on the last turn and gently fed the throttle. Zip. Lowside. Luckily rider and bike were OK, but the right footpeg was damaged. He collected 18 points by virtue of the small field.

Jason's dad and I pulled the bent rear brake lever off and straightened it out, while the Masri clam donated a new peg. It's funny how you work as fast as you can, despite the fact that race four was at least 6 hours away

We called Mike and told him the bad news. The reason we're rolling around on shagged rubber is cause we have pretty much run out of money. Thankfully he handed over some card details so we could put fresh rubber on the beast. Another set of Metzlers meant we had a good chance on a now warm and dry track.
in the pits small.jpg
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First lap:


Jason was on fire. He can ride a bit, and he knows this track like clockwork. He and Pottz took off at pace, but the now reliable Varley machine kept pulling a gap. On his second lap Pottz put in a PB of 1:09, but Jason was already into the 1:07s. Pretty impressive for the field given a few years ago we were setting 1:19s.

So we look forward to Winton with some pretty good rubber installed. I think it will be another mixed bag because Winton is a tight track, but there are enough straights to give us a bit of a power advantage. With Jason on a reliable Varley bike it will be an exciting next couple of rounds. We're still ahead on points, but you can't count your LiPos before they've been cycled ;)

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by Rodney64 » Sep 28 2015 3:39am

Good to see you're pushing faster laps and have soome competition. I don't know much about the Varley bike.they must have upgraded or is the bike just more reliable.

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Post by pottz » Oct 26 2015 7:24pm

Well what a great round we had at Winton.
That was the only time I can ever remember coming second and being ok with it. Normally I get a little depressed if I don't win but this time its all good.

For a quick roundup we ran just over 6 seconds faster than last year which is proof that the input I give, the changes we make and the hard work the team puts in is really paying off. By race 4 we were beating the old lap record on lap 1 from a standing start!
We had some brilliant racing with the other guys and all weekend the bike ran well. I learnt more about the bike and how it responds. Unfortunately Chris couldn't make this one but as a true testament to his quality bike building and the fact he made everything so simple a 'normal' guy like me was able to simply plug the bike in to charge and race it all weekend without too many dramas at all.

Thanks to team Varley who bought the bike to the track.
Friday practice and qualifying saw all of us make steady improvements. Nothing really exiting happened, I qualified a lowly third which I was a little bummed about. I simply had a bad session, it happens.

Race 1 Stared out hectic Varley, Ripperton and I all had the lead at one stage or another, I got a bit of a rhythm on and unfortunately for Jason he had a minor bike issue which gave me a small gap he couldn't close and we took the win. This straight away made the whole weekend for me, Championship points wise getting that win over Varley was important to us and now we can relax a little and concentrate on finishing the races. The racer in me will always push for the win wherever I am able to but I can now afford to ride a little more conservative if I feel the need.

Race 2 In the afternoon saw Varley take the win with our bike having small motor temp issues. If I used full throttle on one straight, the next it would cut power till it cooled down a bit from the third lap onward so I had to manage where and when I would use full throttle. I couldn't keep pace with Varley and had to defend second which I did.

Race 3 was fantastic, Varley, Ripperton and myself had a brilliant battle with everyone in the lead several times. I thought I had it till the last lap I made a little error in T5 and sure enough Jason came past and masterfully blocked my line for the corner exit costing me a little time and pulling just enough gap that I couldn't catch. It was really well done and the race of the season by far.

Race 4 in the Afternoon Jason on Varley got in front and although I thought I had the pace to catch him Ripperton squeezed in front of me at the hairpin's where he is so strong and cost a little time on laps one and two so I lost the tow from Jason who belted the lap record and pulled a 1:34.9 the (fastest lap of the weekend) and pulled a gap I couldn't close. The overheating issue again started on lap 3 where I had to back off a little for the last two laps and save second place.

The overheating we think was caused by the high gearing and the constant hard acceleration from low speeds. Fitting the other smaller front sprocket we have would more than likely fix the problem at this track. We don't think it will be an issue at the next round where the speeds are higher, the motor will be in its more efficient RPM and the cooling effect will be greater.

Bike wise I know where we are strong and I know where we need to make up time. I must apologize to Chris and the team as I probably never sound happy and always want something changed. The reality is the bike is so much better now than even 6 months ago. It is a good thing that we have a pretty good idea on what to work on to drop lap times and keep progressing. The 6 second lap time drop in one year proved beyond a doubt we are heading in the right direction. There is nothing worse than not knowing how to go faster.

Jason on Varley rode brilliantly all weekend and the bike went well for him, its great to have some hard competition at the pointy end now. It was also great to see David on the Zero making improvements every time he went out.

As always thanks to all our supporters, the many people who have helped get us on track. There are too many people to list who without their help we would not be where we are. Thanks to the race organizers for having us and personally thanks Trakdayz, Kaneg and Panic leathers for the support. Chris has built a beautiful thing that just works and we are continuing to get faster. Go team Voltron Electric Motorcycles!!

Here is a video of race 3 from both Ripperton and our bikes cameras. Its a very interesting watch to see where each of our bikes strengths and weaknesses are and how hard and close we are racing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6I28l7vFns


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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by voicecoils » Oct 26 2015 9:57pm

Great weekend report, thanks for the writeup.

The fact that Chris can hand over the keys to a 700 Volt racebike for the rider to charge and operate solo is a real testament to the good design and construction!

I'm stoked to hear racing is getting tight and close with swapping leads, this really adds to the excitement for spectators.

Nicely done Pottz!

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by jonescg » Oct 27 2015 12:20am


For those who are too lazy to follow a link ;)

Yeah Sydney is going to be a hoot. See you there Abraham!

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by Punx0r » Oct 27 2015 4:23am

Well done to you guys for being out there progressing the whole sport :)

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Post by jonescg » Dec 08 2015 1:01am

eFXC series wrap-up, written like a press release so that we can, you know, get some press :mrgreen: .

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1528734667441932

The 2015 eFXC series, run as part of the Formula Xtreme Australasian Superbike Championship, hosted its final round at Sydney Motorsport Park over the 3rd and 4th of December. Five bikes entered the round, including the long awaited return of the Catavolt machine, this time piloted by Andy Lewar.

Danny Pottage (Pottz) wrapped up the season with 5 wins from 5 starts at Sydney Motorsport Park on board Voltron Evo, giving him a total of 125 points for the weekend and 527 points for the series. The West Australian prepared machine had been consistent all year, taking a few new lap records (Mallala, Rd 1 and Queensland, Rd 2) along the way. While the obvious power advantage of the Voltron motorcycle helped secure the win, the teams ongoing development has seen big improvements in suspension and geometry, and much improved cornering stability, ensuring it was no slouch in the technical sections of each circuit. Builder of Voltron Evo, Chris Jones, said he is confident the bike will be quicker still in 2016: "We have a new, wider swingarm being fabricated this summer. It will allow us to use modern, lighter wheels and give us a greater selection of tyres and rubber compounds. Leaving black lines out of every corner might look cool, but it costs us in lap times" he said. Jones said the bike will also be going on a bit of a diet, seeking to get the total mass of the bike under 200 kg, down from 212 kg at present.

Jason Morris on the Varley Electric Vehicles Division machine, the PR1, took second place in championship, with 108 points for the weekend and 484 points for the season. Jason and the Varley prepared machine suffered several technical issues in the early part of the season, but appeared to have them sorted by Round 4 at Wakefield Park raceway. The Varley team soon proved themselves to be a formidable package - taking round wins at Wakefield Park and Winton Raceway, but couldn't claw back the points deficit in time for the final round in Sydney: "Yeah, full credit to the guys in front - it's a bit frustrating to get blasted down the straight, but you've got to build it to be first, and that's what these guys have done". Morris alluded to the development of a second bike for next year: "We've got a Ducati (based machine) in the making, so we hope to have two bikes on the grid for next year".

Third place in the championship went to Daniel Ripperton, with 399 points for the season. He only took 40 points from the weekend after being reprimanded for ignoring race control directions after race three. This inspired Ripperton to offer Bradley Swallow a joy ride on his machine, who promptly took a third and second place in races 4 and 5 respectively. Swallow confirmed that the 80 kW, 170 kg machine did indeed have the right numbers to be fast - setting the fastest lap in race 5, and coming to within a tenth of a second of the eFXC lap record set by Pottage on Voltron Evo in 2014. Ripperton is keen to leave Swallow on the bike for 2016, conceding that it's time for a lighter, faster rider to take over.

David Hiley on the EVtricity Zero SR took fourth in the series with 256 points, and claimed third place for the weekend. Hiley's Zero is the only electric bike in the series which can be purchased from a showroom floor. He's swapped out the belt drive for a chain, removed the onboard chargers, tweaked the controller for more power and added forced air cooling to the motor. With a top speed of about 180 km/h it's not in the same league as the other three prototype bikes, but proof that production electric racing is a competitive class just waiting to take off.

The eFXC championship, having now completed it's fourth season since the inaugural TTXGP inspired series of 2011, is quite a remarkable class of racing. It remains the only true prototype circuit racing class in the country and is home to some of the closest and fastest electric circuit racing on the planet. The short race format means the bikes can rapidly develop their race craft while battery development marches on in the background. As the bikes get faster and batteries improve, the races will inevitably be extended and no doubt eventually, merged with a gas bike class.

Make no mistake, electric propulsion is no longer the way of the future - it's here right now, and will only get faster. If you would like to enter an electric bike in the class for 2016, get in touch with the Formula Xtreme promoters on admin@fxsuperbikes.com.au or check out the Australian Electric Vehicle Association for details of a branch near you.

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by jonescg » Dec 14 2015 1:30am

Last race of the season


Brad Swallow certainly mixed things up a bit, but Pottz still managed to take the win.

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by SlowCo » Dec 14 2015 5:23am

Nice footage.

But, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, the rider is not using the "whole" circuit. It's clear to see the difference in "lines" the other riders follow and why they are able to come so close and passing him in the twisty stuff. Only the power and speed of the bike has saved him and made it able to win. So I think the biggest leap forward would be in the riding technique/skill.

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Post by jonescg » Dec 14 2015 7:09am

SlowCo wrote:Nice footage.

But, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, the rider is not using the "whole" circuit. It's clear to see the difference in "lines" the other riders follow and why they are able to come so close and passing him in the twisty stuff. Only the power and speed of the bike has saved him and made it able to win. So I think the biggest leap forward would be in the riding technique/skill.
It's okay, you can say he was slow. But he still won ;).

We'll be going quicker next year regardless of who rides it.


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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by pottz » Dec 14 2015 7:21pm

jonescg wrote:
SlowCo wrote:Nice footage.

But, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, the rider is not using the "whole" circuit. It's clear to see the difference in "lines" the other riders follow and why they are able to come so close and passing him in the twisty stuff. Only the power and speed of the bike has saved him and made it able to win. So I think the biggest leap forward would be in the riding technique/skill.
It's okay, you can say he was slow. But he still won ;).

We'll be going quicker next year regardless of who rides it.
I agree, I've mentioned already to Chris that the bike is faster than me now and needs a faster rider.

I feel I've done a good job over the past 2 years in setup and riding but it's at a stage where it needs to be ridden at a level beyond me. I've had an absolute amazing time on the bike, met some great people and had a chance to do a heap of cool stuff for which I am so grateful for. I'd love nothing more than to keep riding it but I really want to see the bike do well and show it's full potential.

It's not to say I'm that slow, Chris is correct, we won. There are a lot of riders that wouldn't have.

(And I was cheap)

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Post by jonescg » Dec 14 2015 7:39pm

That's alright Pottz, I was implying that SloCo's armchair advice was not particularly valuable ;)

David and I were discussing entering the likes of Voltron or the PR1 (or a Lightning if they ever show up) into Formula Oz with a couple of A graders on board. Just to see how they go in a 7 lap race. It would be a good demonstration of where we're at. After all, the likes of Herfoss could put in a fast lap on a postie bike.

The eFXC series was set up as a development class where the focus was on making bikes go faster. That's why the 'no A graders' condition was put in. However if we wanted to demonstrate a bike's potential, putting it amongst a pack of fast guys would surely do it.

Just need to get the 'don't bin it' clause signed...

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Re: jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!

Post by Hyena » Dec 14 2015 7:45pm

Awesome work Chris and Pottz, congrats on the win!
It sounds like Jason will give you a run for your money next season if Varley now have the bugs worked out. Racing is already amazingly close considering the different approaches and hand built nature of these bikes.

Voltron seems to dominate the other bikes in speed and power on the straights. Danny must be spewing when he's out in front and about to cross the line when Voltron comes belting past :lol:

I was thinking initially Voltron must be geared for a higher top speed and the others have more torque through the bends but it seems like you get the drop on them off the line too. I'm not putting shit on Pottz (there's enough arm chair critics already!) but how much do you think comes down to rider skill vs chassis and tyres ?

Bring on next season, hopefully sport starts taking you guys more seriously :)
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