E-max 110s lifepo4 upgrade

General Discussion about large electric scooters and motorcycles and other things with no pedals.
RedKing73   10 µW

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Re: E-max 110s lifepo4 upgrade

Post by RedKing73 » Feb 18 2014 9:17am

HI,

anyone know how many pins on the small connector on the hub motor? And inside the black wire coming out of the motor, does it have 5 wires in it? black,red,blue,green and yellow ?

I'm away from it today and can't inspect.

Much appreciated.

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flexy   100 W

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Re: E-max 110s lifepo4 upgrade

Post by flexy » Jun 03 2014 5:49am

Apparently, the rear shock can be replaced with Yamaha Neos one from RMS, for a smoother ride.
72V Crooza scooter, converted to lifepo4 24AH 24S2P Headway, Lyen 18FET controller, 47mph
72V E-max 110S converted to lifepo4 A123 100AH 24S5P, Sabvoton 72150 controller, 49mph

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Re: E-max 110s lifepo4 upgrade

Post by flexy » Jul 28 2014 2:53am

Does anyone know the pole count of the 4KW E-max motor? I read somewhere they changed the number on later models.

Edit: counted 20 pairs on my 2008 model
Last edited by flexy on Aug 20 2014 1:31pm, edited 1 time in total.
72V Crooza scooter, converted to lifepo4 24AH 24S2P Headway, Lyen 18FET controller, 47mph
72V E-max 110S converted to lifepo4 A123 100AH 24S5P, Sabvoton 72150 controller, 49mph

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Re: E-max 110s lifepo4 upgrade

Post by yokneamcity » Jul 28 2014 1:07pm

RedKing73 wrote:HI,

anyone know how many pins on the small connector on the hub motor? And inside the black wire coming out of the motor, does it have 5 wires in it? black,red,blue,green and yellow ?

I'm away from it today and can't inspect.

Much appreciated.
it have 5 pins.
black-ground
red- +5V
blue,green and yellow -sensors output

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Re: E-max 110s lifepo4 upgrade

Post by dutchlincoln » Jul 28 2014 2:36pm

Correction: plus 2 for the temp. sensor: i have 7...

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Re: E-max 110s lifepo4 upgrade

Post by costicuta2000 » Sep 12 2014 7:41pm

Hello.
I ride every day, since 2010, my old e-max 90S with 25.120 km. (20000 km, with stock configuration) Now I ride the beast, for almoust 6 month, on a lifepo4 configuration (72V 30Ah - 24S) with a 4,5 kw kelly controller. Top speed is near 73 km/h gps. (Like you see, I have a small battery and the voltage drop quite fast at full throtle). You can see, the speed is the same: greentime controller, or others controllers, we are all stock at 72-73 km/h. Maybe is the voltage limit. The funy thing, with my kelly controller is the acceleration. Pic at 171 amps and 68 V ( the controller can pic for 10s at 220 amp), so 11 680W on my cycle analist for a 130 kg + 65 (me). Is impressive. 0 to 50 km/h in 4 seconds. I think, I'll buy, a little bit later one e-max 120S (for 125cc licence), remove the controller and the silicon batteries and change him to 6Kw 96v regen kelly controller, and a good lifepo4 battery. I theory I must hit 90 Km/h. Did anyone has already tried?
E-max 120L sevcon 15s li-mn. 80 km speed
Emax 90S modified to 72V 4,5kw kelly. Speed 73km/h 24S Lifepo4 pack
E-bike Bh Nitro stock configuration 45km/h
http://www.elvelor.fr

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flexy   100 W

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Re: E-max 110s lifepo4 upgrade

Post by flexy » Sep 13 2014 2:51am

costicuta2000 wrote:Hello.
I ride every day, since 2010, my old e-max 90S with 25.120 km. (20000 km, with stock configuration) Now I ride the beast, for almoust 6 month, on a lifepo4 configuration (72V 30Ah - 24S) with a 4,5 kw kelly controller. Top speed is near 73 km/h gps. (Like you see, I have a small battery and the voltage drop quite fast at full throtle). You can see, the speed is the same: greentime controller, or others controllers, we are all stock at 72-73 km/h. Maybe is the voltage limit. The funy thing, with my kelly controller is the acceleration. Pic at 171 amps and 68 V ( the controller can pic for 10s at 220 amp), so 11 680W on my cycle analist for a 130 kg + 65 (me). Is impressive. 0 to 50 km/h in 4 seconds. I think, I'll buy, a little bit later one e-max 120S (for 125cc licence), remove the controller and the silicon batteries and change him to 6Kw 96v regen kelly controller, and a good lifepo4 battery. I theory I must hit 90 Km/h. Did anyone has already tried?
Hi
Which lifepo4 cells are you using? Does your motor and cables get hot at maximum power?
I have just fitted a Sabvoton controller and get up to 75km/h 47mph, this is with 40A field weakening enabled.
Sabvoton now do a 96V controller which could give more speed, I wouldn't feel safe going much faster, the scooter brakes aren't designed for these speeds.
72V Crooza scooter, converted to lifepo4 24AH 24S2P Headway, Lyen 18FET controller, 47mph
72V E-max 110S converted to lifepo4 A123 100AH 24S5P, Sabvoton 72150 controller, 49mph

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Re: E-max 110s lifepo4 upgrade

Post by costicuta2000 » Sep 13 2014 12:19pm

Hello again. I use 5ah cells from optimum (chinese brand but very good and strong battery. The pack has 2 years old and around 500 cycles). The motor don't get hot to much, juste a little warm, but like I said I go 170 amps only for 5-6 seconds, after the controller drop at 55-60 amps. (62 amp max). To protect my battery pack I set my kelly to 100 amp pic and 55 nominal. Yesterday at 70,9 km/h I was using only 3300W. For the cable, yes, I have two 10 avg wires in paralel (for the battery) and it seems to doing fine. By the way, if you want to buy a kelly controller, at full power you need a good cooler. He get hot very fast.
So My emax, at 3800W on flat road and 21°C can reach 74 km/h. Maybe at 6000w and 96V he can go at 90 km/h.
And the brake are usless at 70 km/h. That's why I use regen brake.
So let me know what happen at 96V.
E-max 120L sevcon 15s li-mn. 80 km speed
Emax 90S modified to 72V 4,5kw kelly. Speed 73km/h 24S Lifepo4 pack
E-bike Bh Nitro stock configuration 45km/h
http://www.elvelor.fr

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flexy   100 W

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Re: E-max 110s lifepo4 upgrade

Post by flexy » Sep 16 2014 4:15pm

As just mentioned, I have now fitted a Sabvoton controller, the 72V 6KW model, It took some time to set up but was worth it!

It is much better than the Greentime 36FET , there is no buzzing from the motor at startup just silent power :D . It is so much better with a torque based throttle, no jerking, the predictable power makes it much easier to handle on corners, I would never return to a speed based throttle.

The controller is showing to be far more efficient too, I'm getting around 75Wh/m versus 105Wh/m with the Greentime , I also have regen working now so this will have a positive effect. The motor doesn't get as warm as it did before.

The basic top speed is slightly lower due to the controller being sine wave, around 40mph, but with 40A field weakening enabled in the settings it is going up to 48mph (although this reduces the efficiency). The CA can't seem to read the speed over 45mph, the hall signal must be too distorted, so I added a separate sensor and magnet to the swing arm and rear wheel.
I put the settings I am using into Ctirad's spreadsheet here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... ring#gid=0

The results on my CA after urban riding with steep hills:

Image
Image


I also fitted two of my Kingpan chargers (10A and 5A) into the front of the bike, this enables me to use public charge points and I can charge at 1200W.
They are a little noisy with the fans on, but they work and I can switch each one on independently. Ultimately I would like one of the Elcon PFC chargers at 2500W but they would be a challenge to fit in the available space.

Image
72V Crooza scooter, converted to lifepo4 24AH 24S2P Headway, Lyen 18FET controller, 47mph
72V E-max 110S converted to lifepo4 A123 100AH 24S5P, Sabvoton 72150 controller, 49mph

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ctirad   10 W

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Re: E-max 110s lifepo4 upgrade

Post by ctirad » Sep 23 2014 8:14am

Very nicely done Flexy. How complicated was to remove the old controller and keep the unrelated (lights, keylock..) circuits functional? Does the dashboard still working?
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Re: E-max 110s lifepo4 upgrade

Post by costicuta2000 » Sep 23 2014 5:38pm

Hello. I have important news for e-max users. It seems 11 kw of power (bust for 5 sec) is to much for the motor. You can take a look at my photos. I think the phase wire is not strong enough for this amount of power. The copper wire is ok, I have clean it and the motor works like new (i set a limit: 75 Amp at 72V). I still can hit 70 km/h but there is a big difference between 170 Amp and 75 :))
Attachments
photo.JPG
photo.JPG (163.38 KiB) Viewed 3718 times
photo(1).JPG
E-max 120L sevcon 15s li-mn. 80 km speed
Emax 90S modified to 72V 4,5kw kelly. Speed 73km/h 24S Lifepo4 pack
E-bike Bh Nitro stock configuration 45km/h
http://www.elvelor.fr

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Re: E-max 110s lifepo4 upgrade

Post by ctirad » Sep 24 2014 7:51am

The important for the phase winding is the phase current, not the battery current indicated on the CA. If you want to experiment with the higher than nominal power, install a temperature sensor directly on the winding and set the maximal allowed temperature in your controller and you are safe.
Member of http://www.cezeta.com team
Erider VK2008 4kW electric scooter
Guewer Classic 2kW electric scooter (modded)

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flexy   100 W

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Re: E-max 110s lifepo4 upgrade

Post by flexy » Sep 25 2014 1:24pm

ctirad wrote:Very nicely done Flexy. How complicated was to remove the old controller and keep the unrelated (lights, keylock..) circuits functional? Does the dashboard still working?
Thanks ctirad,
It's detailed earlier in this thread when I removed the stock controller and replaced it with Greentime 36fet, (Dashboard only shows welcome screen and indicator lights) I had to use a 72-48v DC/DC converter to power the original logic board for the lights etc and also a 72/12v dc/dc to pin 8 on the logic board to power the lights. If I started again I would make a simple wiring loom like other scooters have.
72V Crooza scooter, converted to lifepo4 24AH 24S2P Headway, Lyen 18FET controller, 47mph
72V E-max 110S converted to lifepo4 A123 100AH 24S5P, Sabvoton 72150 controller, 49mph

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flexy   100 W

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Re: E-max 110s lifepo4 upgrade

Post by flexy » Sep 25 2014 1:33pm

costicuta2000 wrote:Hello. I have important news for e-max users. It seems 11 kw of power (bust for 5 sec) is to much for the motor. You can take a look at my photos. I think the phase wire is not strong enough for this amount of power. The copper wire is ok, I have clean it and the motor works like new (i set a limit: 75 Amp at 72V). I still can hit 70 km/h but there is a big difference between 170 Amp and 75 :))
I don't know what the phase amps would be in a kelly controller running at 175A battery current, it could have been over 400A!

I do get a slight buzz with my Sabvoton controller under hard acceleration, I assume it is clipping the waveform to limit the phase current.
72V Crooza scooter, converted to lifepo4 24AH 24S2P Headway, Lyen 18FET controller, 47mph
72V E-max 110S converted to lifepo4 A123 100AH 24S5P, Sabvoton 72150 controller, 49mph

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Re: E-max 110s lifepo4 upgrade

Post by whereswally606 » Sep 25 2014 1:46pm

Costicutta how did you get the side off your motor I have one which I need to service but can't get the cover off please could you give us some ideas. Sorry for hijacking the thread to find this out.
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Re: E-max 110s lifepo4 upgrade

Post by costicuta2000 » Sep 25 2014 6:11pm

Hello whereswally606
The e-max motor was build to not be repared. I had a hall transistor dead and it was a real pain to change him. All the whires are one the other side of motor and is impossible to remove the stator. For the hall transistor I made a hole in the motor. Anyway to remove the cover of the e-max motor, is very simple. You can do it at home. You can start by the removing tire procedure:
Put the Emax on the main stand, use the necessary screw driver and take out about 15 screws. Watch out, don't take out the 3 screws who where deeper, they hold the motor together. Now you can take away the outer ring, but attention. Before remove the ring your tire must be flat, otherwelse the pressure can harm you. Once the tire is off, you can remove the 3 screws (mark them). When all the screws are off, you can put a lever to force the cover. I use this levers (see the photo). You can push hard, there will be no damage. On the cover you'll see the ball bearing (japan made. 25000 km and no problem at all)

And Flexy I suggest to take a look at your motor to. I had the " a slight buzz" to, most like a coging noise at full acceleration.
And for the phase wire, I think (i'm not sure) the cable is 8 awg who is preatty strong. If the phase wire is 8 awg, normaly he can hold 200 amps.
Attachments
motion-pro-spoon-tyre-lever-pair-7426-p.jpg
motion-pro-spoon-tyre-lever-pair-7426-p.jpg (90.19 KiB) Viewed 3693 times
E-max 120L sevcon 15s li-mn. 80 km speed
Emax 90S modified to 72V 4,5kw kelly. Speed 73km/h 24S Lifepo4 pack
E-bike Bh Nitro stock configuration 45km/h
http://www.elvelor.fr

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flexy   100 W

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Re: E-max 110s lifepo4 upgrade

Post by flexy » Sep 28 2014 2:11pm

It should be possible to get at the back of the stator, you have to remove the motor from the swingarm and pull the back plate off the rear bearing.
I found the regen was causing the keyway on the axle to move back and forth under acceleration/deceleration so I ended up using some scotchweld DP460 epoxy to keep it from moving, this will make removing the motor difficult when I need to repair it or change a bearing.
72V Crooza scooter, converted to lifepo4 24AH 24S2P Headway, Lyen 18FET controller, 47mph
72V E-max 110S converted to lifepo4 A123 100AH 24S5P, Sabvoton 72150 controller, 49mph

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Re: E-max 110s lifepo4 upgrade

Post by costicuta2000 » Sep 29 2014 5:41pm

Hello Flexy.

Thanks for the info. I'll try to remove the stator this winter. I'll have to change my rear brake disc and I'll tale a look to see if I can remove it. Anyway I'm curious. How many amps did your motor put on regen mode? My kelly controller put 7 Ah (limited at 17%)
E-max 120L sevcon 15s li-mn. 80 km speed
Emax 90S modified to 72V 4,5kw kelly. Speed 73km/h 24S Lifepo4 pack
E-bike Bh Nitro stock configuration 45km/h
http://www.elvelor.fr

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flexy   100 W

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Re: E-max 110s lifepo4 upgrade

Post by flexy » Sep 30 2014 2:16pm

Hi costicuta,
I have set regen current in my Sabvoton software so it takes maximum 80A phase current for ebraking and 25A when I release the throttle, I see it go up to -2.5KW on my CA when I brake hard.

I'm not sure how you set it in Kelly software, is it a percentage of your maximum current?
72V Crooza scooter, converted to lifepo4 24AH 24S2P Headway, Lyen 18FET controller, 47mph
72V E-max 110S converted to lifepo4 A123 100AH 24S5P, Sabvoton 72150 controller, 49mph

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Re: E-max 110s lifepo4 upgrade

Post by costicuta2000 » Sep 30 2014 6:13pm

flexy wrote:Hi costicuta,
I have set regen current in my Sabvoton software so it takes maximum 80A phase current for ebraking and 25A when I release the throttle, I see it go up to -2.5KW on my CA when I brake hard.

I'm not sure how you set it in Kelly software, is it a percentage of your maximum current?
I set the regen break at 17% form 100%, so there is room for a lot more regen. I can't tell you how much is the max regen current on a kelly. If I set to max, I think I'll fry the bms.
I'm a little bit worried. It's seems my motor has some problems, due to my 181 amp burst. At the full throtle the well spin corectly, but when I release the throttle the motor stops very fast. Is hard to spin the wheel with my hands, and the problem is not from the brake. I must wait until sunday to open it. I hope it will last until then. :)
E-max 120L sevcon 15s li-mn. 80 km speed
Emax 90S modified to 72V 4,5kw kelly. Speed 73km/h 24S Lifepo4 pack
E-bike Bh Nitro stock configuration 45km/h
http://www.elvelor.fr

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flexy   100 W

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Re: E-max 110s lifepo4 upgrade

Post by flexy » Oct 01 2014 2:08pm

There is a cross section of the motor at the bottom of this page:

http://www.proud-eagle.com/pro3.asp

you can see how the backplate and bearing meet the axle,it will take a lot of force to remove it because the magnets are trying to hold the stator in the case, a bearing puller would help, give yourself plenty of time.
72V Crooza scooter, converted to lifepo4 24AH 24S2P Headway, Lyen 18FET controller, 47mph
72V E-max 110S converted to lifepo4 A123 100AH 24S5P, Sabvoton 72150 controller, 49mph

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Re: E-max 110s lifepo4 upgrade

Post by costicuta2000 » Oct 04 2014 6:48pm

flexy wrote:There is a cross section of the motor at the bottom of this page:

http://www.proud-eagle.com/pro3.asp

you can see how the backplate and bearing meet the axle,it will take a lot of force to remove it because the magnets are trying to hold the stator in the case, a bearing puller would help, give yourself plenty of time.
The motor is ok. My rear brake is the problem. I must find another one, I had spent 2 hours trying to fix it, and ... usless. I think the piston is to old.
E-max 120L sevcon 15s li-mn. 80 km speed
Emax 90S modified to 72V 4,5kw kelly. Speed 73km/h 24S Lifepo4 pack
E-bike Bh Nitro stock configuration 45km/h
http://www.elvelor.fr

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Re: E-max 110s lifepo4 upgrade

Post by whereswally606 » Dec 11 2014 8:04pm

Bought me an emax 110s which had a burnt out charger I figure I can get that repaired and in the meanwhile use my tp1430c thunder power charger to see whether the stock batteries are toast. If they are I feel a lithium upgrade in order. I am eventually going to get around to building a second since I have a spare emax hub motor 2 controllers (proud eagle type) and a programming tool for them. Any way it with be my girlfriends daily commuter since her commute is 7miles vs my 30miles each way
Will eventually start my own thread but I thought I'd let you guys know another nodded emax will soon be on the road again
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Moped: Emax 110s 2009

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flexy   100 W

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Re: E-max 110s lifepo4 upgrade

Post by flexy » Dec 12 2014 6:30am

Good luck, keep us posted...
72V Crooza scooter, converted to lifepo4 24AH 24S2P Headway, Lyen 18FET controller, 47mph
72V E-max 110S converted to lifepo4 A123 100AH 24S5P, Sabvoton 72150 controller, 49mph

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Re: E-max 110s lifepo4 upgrade

Post by whereswally606 » Dec 15 2014 5:09am

Submitted my v5c document to change the registered keeper and got a years road tax this weekend, To the UK owners. Which insurance companies have you had quotes from for the E-max?
Distributing "Lebowski" FOC Controller PCB (Through hole) since 2016
Moped: Emax 110s 2009

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