Razor Ecosmart Metro - potential upgrades?

y0bailey

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Hey folks. I just purchased my first electric scooter, and I am liking it so far. I am going to be using it to make a 4.2 mile commute. I found a "Like new" Razor Ecosmart metro on Amazon for $129 shipped...so I pulled the trigger. The past few days test rides have netted me 4.5ish miles of juice...so I have upgraded the 7ah batteries to 10ah batteries and I should be good to go (that way I have a bit extra cushion to make sure I am not stranded pushing my scooter to work!). I also just ordered a 36v battery meter to keep track of my charge a little more accurately than the terrible built in throttle "full" or "low."

I would like a bit more top speed. It's 500watt motor does a pretty good job of getting me up any hill on my commute, but on the flats I would like a few more MPH.

Any easy ways to pull that off? I was thinking I could get a smaller toothed sprocket for the rear wheel, which would give me a bit better gearing at the cost of acceleration and potential to get me up hills.

Anyone familiar with this scooter and have any good ideas?
 
A sad truth. Fast, cheap, good, pick two.

I don't know anything about the vehicle you speak of, but higher voltage is likely to get you there faster. However, the faster you go, the more power you consume. I don't know if you could change your controller or if your controller could accommodate, but that's about all that comes to mind.
 
You might want to poke around the other various scooter upgrade threads; all the basic questions are answered in various ones of those, and will point you towards a direction, from where you can ask more specific questions once you understand what you're getting into, what you need for what you want, and why.
 
If your still using lead batteries the best upgrade is some form of Lipo batteries. FYI the sub forum called "stand up scooters and skateboards" is where you want to be and contains a ton of info about this type of scooter. You have to do the lipo change over first as that is more likely limiting your power and range. fyi 10ah of lipo is equal to ~15ah of lead in real world use and alot lighter :) Motor wont take much more then 500W but the lipo will really give the scooter a nice pick up.
 
I am going to slap an additional 12v battery to the current stock setup and see what happens. If I fry things, I guess that is a sign that it is time to upgrade! The beauty of this scooter is plenty of room to add an additional battery.

My question is charging. How do I charge the setup now that it is 48v. Just buy a new charger...or can the supplied charger handle things?
 
So just an update in case someone stumbles upon this thread searching about the Ecosmart:

So my current setup is 3x12volt 10ah SLA, default controller, default motor, default throttle. The original 7ah batteries are sitting in my garage fully charged, so I simply added 1 more in series for 48 volts. This was for testing purposes only and I didn't run it long because I didn't want to bottom out and trash my 7ah battery....BUT THIS THING FLIES NOW!

The beauty of how big the tray is in this beast is that I should be able to fit everything in the default tray with minimal modifications (even with taller 10ah batteries). I will have to trim a few tabs, but it will all fit clean and tidy.

I did a quick 1 mile ride...averaged over 17mph the whole time. A few smaller hills...maxed out at around 26-27 on a slight downhill. You can feel the extra power to the point that I didn't have a helmet on and had to pull into the garage to put one on (aka it is now fast enough I am slightly scared!).

So I ordered an additional 12v 10ah battery (4 total), and a proper 48v charger. This thing is going to get me to work fast now!

The "low" battery protection cutoff is going to no longer function...so I added a voltage meter. My new question is...what voltage would you stop pushing the batteries on...aka when should I call it "empty." At 36 volts, I was stopping at around 33 volts...should 44 be my new "empty" settings to make sure I don't over drain the batteries?
 
y0bailey said:
So just an update in case someone stumbles upon this thread searching about the Ecosmart:

So my current setup is 3x12volt 10ah SLA, default controller, default motor, default throttle. The original 7ah batteries are sitting in my garage fully charged, so I simply added 1 more in series for 48 volts. This was for testing purposes only and I didn't run it long because I didn't want to bottom out and trash my 7ah battery....BUT THIS THING FLIES NOW!

The beauty of how big the tray is in this beast is that I should be able to fit everything in the default tray with minimal modifications (even with taller 10ah batteries). I will have to trim a few tabs, but it will all fit clean and tidy.

I did a quick 1 mile ride...averaged over 17mph the whole time. A few smaller hills...maxed out at around 26-27 on a slight downhill. You can feel the extra power to the point that I didn't have a helmet on and had to pull into the garage to put one on (aka it is now fast enough I am slightly scared!).

So I ordered an additional 12v 10ah battery (4 total), and a proper 48v charger. This thing is going to get me to work fast now!

The "low" battery protection cutoff is going to no longer function...so I added a voltage meter. My new question is...what voltage would you stop pushing the batteries on...aka when should I call it "empty." At 36 volts, I was stopping at around 33 volts...should 44 be my new "empty" settings to make sure I don't over drain the batteries?

In theory, they say to extend the cycles of your SLA batteries up to 25% more, don't drain more than half their AH. What that translates in voltage is hard to tell with SLA''s.

On another note, many controllers that are spec'd at 36 volts, usually have a burnout limit of 51-53 volts. I do say usually. And i know nothing about the controller in your Razor. But putting on 48 volts of SLA will not take it much above that limit and most 36 volt controllers usually will run fine. However, a 48 volt charger, can push up to 55 volts. I've seen and repaired many 36 volt electric scooters that ran fine on 48 volts of battery. But their owners connected a 48 volt charger, which after an hour or so of charging, would burn out the controller. You need to install a second connector for charging the batteries. Making sure it is not linked to the Controllers battery leads but to the charge port of the scooter only, if it has one.

Some pictures of your setup would be nice :)

Wishes
 
Forgive the cell phone pics. First pic makes voltage meter hard to read when it is not...and second is just crappy but shows the 4x10Ah batteries in that sucker

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Routine 19mph average on my 4 mile commute. WIN!
 
Have you consider investing in a 2 wire key lock for additional security? That's what I'm going to do on my ecoSmart. Just have to figure out where to mount the keylock.
 
I have 2 Razor Ecosmart Metro's and thanks to the amazing tech guys at ElectricScooterParts.com I was able to modify my Ecosmart to run 8-10 miles daily at 22mph-24mph reliably. below is what I did to get these results (I was able to purchase every single part on their site and it was delivered super fast)

48v-1000w MOTOR part# mot-481000 (diect bolt on needs no modification
48v CHARGER part# CHR-48V1.6AXLR (three prong XLR plug so you can use the stock charging port in the stock location)
48V 1000W CONTROLLER They offer several ones that will work just pick one that suits your needs
48v THROTTLE This has its own meter that is more accurate, they also have a 48v throttle with key so you can lock your scooter (this is what I use)
48v 12ah Lithium Ion Battery pack ($254.00 on ebay) this pack fits inside the battery tray and weights 50% less than the SLA 4 pack battery setup.
I kept the stock sprocket size because with the 1000w motor I did not need to change as the extra power takes me up hills better than ever. The guys at ElectricScooterPatrs.com have any and every part you need to mod your scooter correctly and safely. best of all their website has all the wiring diagrams, battery discharge charts, sprocket calibration charts and every other chart you need. If you have a question just drop them a line on their forum and they will answer you within 48 hours.

Give their site a look you will thank me later I guarantee it.
 
What I'm looking to do is upgrade to a Li-ion battery...the way I read this is the controller will work...if you stay within the parameters

I'm just looking for a second opinion. I going to stick with a 36V system, but what about Li-ion battery life?

an excerpt from about 8 months ago https://support.electricscooterparts.com/support/discussions/topics/1000090273 -

//When switching from a lead-acid battery pack to a lithium battery the Voltage should be the same unless you are overvolting the scooter, however, there are other factors to consider also such as the lithium battery's maximum continuous discharge current rating and its open circuit Voltage range/discharge cutoff Voltage.

Lithium batteries have a battery management system (BMS) boards inside of them which control how much current can be demanded from them and how low their Voltage level can be drawn down to. If either of these limits are exceeded the BMS will shut down the battery to prevent damage to it. Usually, the battery will need to be connected to the battery charger to reset itself back to a functioning state.

In the case of an unmodified EcoSmart scooter, the controller has a 30 Amp current limit and the original battery pack has a 30 Amp fuse, so a lithium battery with a 30 Amp or higher maximum continuous discharge current rating should be used with it.

Regarding a lithium battery's open circuit Voltage range, this is the range of Voltage that the BMS will allow the battery to operate between. The lower Voltage number is important because this is the Voltage that the BMS will shut off the battery at when it is reached. Sometimes this is also called the discharge cutoff Voltage. The controller also has a low Voltage cutoff (LVC) level so optimally the battery pack will deeply discharge before the controller reaches its LVC so the full amount of the batteries capacity can be used.

For example, the EcoSmart scooter's controller has an LVC of 31.5 Volts so optimally the lithium batteries discharge cutoff Voltage should be at or above 31.5 Volts otherwise the full capacity of the battery will not be able to be used.

We carry a 36 Volt 30Ah LiFePO4 battery that has a 36 Volt discharge cutoff Voltage so its full capacity can be fully used well before the controller reaches its low Voltage cutoff (LVC) level. However, we have seen other 36 Volt lithium batteries with 30 Volt discharge cutoff Voltage ratings and since the controller would shut down when the battery reaches 31.5 Volts these lithium batteries would never be allowed to become deeply discharged and be used to its maximum capacity.

If the scooter is overvolted to 48 Volts then its motor will run faster and stronger and consume more power from the battery pack if the scooter is driven faster than it was when running at 36 Volts. Overvolting may also overheat the controller and motor depending on how hard the scooter is driven.

A battery indicator gauge can be installed by splicing it into the wiring harness between the on/off power switch and power connector to controller.//

- an excerpt from about 8 months ago https://support.electricscooterparts.com/support/discussions/topics/1000090273
 
I've used the stock controller with a lithium battery upgrade. And it was a 48-volt battery to boot. However, I didn't use the stock XLR connector to charge the lithium battery, because the battery came instead with a 5.5mm barrel connector. So I simply charged the battery outside the scooter.
 
I briefly mentioned the changes I did in this thread: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=102283

... but to repeat:

1. Using a 48v 20.4ah 18650 battery pack (Panasonic 3400mah in 13x6 configuration), I hit 23mph in otherwise stock configuration.
2. Changing to 48v Fast Scooters contoller and throttle saw little difference ... maybe 1mph gain in speed.
3. Changing out rear sprocket to 55 tooth (from the stock 65 tooth) jumped speed up to 27mph.
4. Changing battery to 52v 12ah (Two Samsung 3000mah 'Pocket Rocket' packs parallel connected) I've touched 30mph. Also have two Sanyo 3500mah 7x2 packs (52v 14ah) and speed is very similar to the Samsung packs ... maybe a tick slower.

I also made an effort at removing weight:
1. Hutchinson Greenville 16x1.75 tires (350gr. each ... original tires were about 880 grams each)
2. Cheap ($7) aluminum 27.2mm x 450mm seatpost with .8mm shim (235 grams ... original seatpost was 625 grams)
3. Fast scooters controller (approximately 100 grams lighter than original)
4. The two Sanyo packs are very light, about 3.8 lbs each (original SLA battery packs are about 17.5 lbs total)

... bringing weight down to about 50 lbs with one Sanyo pack (original weight was 67 lbs)
 
Can you please share any details/links/pics on how to replace original lead-acid batteries with Li pack using 12-14 18650 batteries (around 10Ah each) - what variant/brand/model of 18650 should be used and how to connect those.
I want to increase range and decrease weight (preferably without spending too much time on this upgrade).
Thanks!

dlkawashima said:
I briefly mentioned the changes I did in this thread: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=102283

... but to repeat:

1. Using a 48v 20.4ah 18650 battery pack (Panasonic 3400mah in 13x6 configuration), I hit 23mph in otherwise stock configuration.
2. Changing to 48v Fast Scooters contoller and throttle saw little difference ... maybe 1mph gain in speed.
3. Changing out rear sprocket to 55 tooth (from the stock 65 tooth) jumped speed up to 27mph.
4. Changing battery to 52v 12ah (Two Samsung 3000mah 'Pocket Rocket' packs parallel connected) I've touched 30mph. Also have two Sanyo 3500mah 7x2 packs (52v 14ah) and speed is very similar to the Samsung packs ... maybe a tick slower.

... bringing weight down to about 50 lbs with one Sanyo pack (original weight was 67 lbs)
 
Hi,
I'm reviving this thread to ask about replacing the original batteries in an EcoSmart with LiFePO4 10Ah batteries. From what I can tell, this will increase my range (by how much is unclear, but anything is already good) without requiring that I replace anything else except the charger. Do I need to know anything beyond how to actually hook them up? (PS: how do I hook them up?)

If I leave LiFePO4 batteries plugged into the charger for more than 24 hours will I damage the batteries? (This is a bit of a problem with the SLA batteries; I am really good at forgetting to do things, so damaging the batteries is a real risk. And yes, I will forget instantly to set an alarm, or, when the alarm I do remember to set goes off, to unplug the scooter.)


Thanks!
 
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