isle of man TT Zero

General Discussion about large electric scooters and motorcycles and other things with no pedals.
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jimmyhackers   100 W

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isle of man TT Zero

Post by jimmyhackers » Jun 06 2015 5:53pm

just came back today from my first trip to the isle of man

was AWESOME!!!!!!

electric bikes were effing awesome.

i am now planning to get my bike license as a result :)
if you do learn from your mistakes, i should be a genius by now.

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liveforphysics   100 GW

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Re: isle of man TT Zero

Post by liveforphysics » Jun 07 2015 2:38am

Pics? Did you see the 117mph run?
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jimmyhackers   100 W

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Re: isle of man TT Zero

Post by jimmyhackers » Jun 07 2015 7:40pm

i saw all of ten seconds for each bike at ballaugh bridge.

pretty epic.

team mugen smashed it but tbh all they changed from last year was a bigger rear brake. hence they did a similar average lap speed this year.

the best bit was the pits/paddock. you can just walk to the race team tents and ask questions and everyones really open and friendly.

lots of "dubious" figures of torque bhp after you ask about controller volts and amps and battery volts and amphours. it was all good fun

not a single team was running a hub motor though. which i thought was weird.
would make for more space in the body for batteries.
then you'd loose some weight from shedding a chain and making/amalgamating the motor casing the wheel into the hub/rim

its given me a real drive to pull my finger out and make something half decent.
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Punx0r   100 GW

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Re: isle of man TT Zero

Post by Punx0r » Jun 08 2015 3:57am

I guess it would take a lot more work to get a good enough hubmotor compared to the chain-drive they currently have. The extra space in the frame might not be that useful if they're currently constrained by battery weight rather than volume.

It's definitely interesting to see how the EV bikes have progressed so rapidly. The TT seems like a good way to raise the profile of EVs.

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jonescg   1.21 GW

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Re: isle of man TT Zero

Post by jonescg » Jun 08 2015 6:56am

I think the TT is the ultimate in proving your machine's capability. Even Yamaha's got problems with their superbikes dumping oil into the airbox after being held wide open for so long. Then there's the rider...

I'm yet to see a hub motor put out the requisite continuous power which the IOM demands. We're talking an average of 60-70 kW for the ~20 minute run, with peaks well over 100 kW for some pretty sustained stretches. Then there's the road surface calling for some decent suspension; difficult with a heavy rear wheel.

It might happen one day, but the circuit demands a pretty tight ship and I don't think hub motors are there yet.

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jimmyhackers   100 W

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Re: isle of man TT Zero

Post by jimmyhackers » Jun 08 2015 6:14pm

fair enough. i suppose the exta hub weight would alter rear arm suspension characteristics, effecting rebound rates etc

been looking into other possible ways of gettign improved "race" performance

zinc oxide batteries. in hearing aids. seem a hope

non rechargeable but im pretty sure their power density is a lot higher than lipos even.

out of the reach of the average man, but a big race team could afford to blow a few pennies on a throwaway battery for fame and fortune etc :)
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Re: isle of man TT Zero

Post by Joseph C. » Jun 08 2015 6:51pm

Lightning didn't send a bike? I was hoping they would send one and smash the record but having an experienced competitive rider could be difficult to acquire.

Apparently, it takes several years to learn the track well enough to be confident to go flat out round the course - it's that long.
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Re: isle of man TT Zero

Post by Punx0r » Jun 09 2015 3:54am

I suspect the rules require the "battery" to be rechargeable. The Wikipedia article surmises the rule's definition of the battery as:

"Accumulator (storage battery)
The accumulator is defined as any equipment used for the intermediate storage of electrical energy supplied by the solar generator or by the charging unit. Any on-board accumulator is considered as an integral part of the vehicle’s accumulator. All on-board electrical equipment, unless consisting of items originally powered by dry batteries, small accumulator or their own solar cells, must receive its energy supply from the vehicle’s official accumulator.[6]"

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voicecoils   10 MW

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Re: isle of man TT Zero

Post by voicecoils » Jun 09 2015 4:56am

Joseph C. wrote:Lightning didn't send a bike? I was hoping they would send one and smash the record but having an experienced competitive rider could be difficult to acquire.

Apparently, it takes several years to learn the track well enough to be confident to go flat out round the course - it's that long.
Lightning didn't bring a bike this year, Mission Motors never has. Both could produce a fast bike for this race but haven't for whatever reasons. I'd like to see Zero build a bike for it too!

The only teams to break 100 mph average lap speed are:
MotoCzysz (2012, 2013)
Mugen Shinden / Honda (2012, 2013, 2014, 2015)
Victory Motorcycles / Brammo (2015)
Team Sarolea Racing SP7 (2015)

As for finding riders, if the bike is competitive it wouldn't be hard. The TT is filled with very experienced racers in the various petrol classes who want more podium finishes and track time. Riding in the TT Zero class would give them exactly, plus media exposure for their sponsors.
Last edited by voicecoils on Jun 10 2015 5:12am, edited 2 times in total.

major   10 kW

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Re: isle of man TT Zero

Post by major » Jun 09 2015 7:41am

Lightning did send a bike to the Isle in 2011 and 2012. I crewed for them in 2012. Johnny Burrows was the pilot both years. We were able to put a fast bike on the track but battery problems caused a DNF and DNS for official results.

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voicecoils   10 MW

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Re: isle of man TT Zero

Post by voicecoils » Jun 09 2015 8:40am

major wrote:Lightning did send a bike to the Isle in 2011 and 2012. I crewed for them in 2012. Johnny Burrows was the pilot both years. We were able to put a fast bike on the track but battery problems caused a DNF and DNS for official results.
Apologies for my error, I'll edit the above.

I didn't see them listed in the TTZero wiki results, probably because it only shows bikes that completed a full lap: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TT_Zero

What are your thoughts of the current bike's competitiveness, should they head back to the isle?

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Re: isle of man TT Zero

Post by major » Jun 09 2015 9:40am

voicecoils wrote: What are your thoughts of the current bike's competitiveness, should they head back to the isle?
Lightning is basically the same same bike from 2011 on, AFAIK. The machine has always been competitive. Burrows was running with front runners on the qualifying lap 2012 until the battery let go. The problems were logistics.

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Re: isle of man TT Zero

Post by grindz145 » Jun 09 2015 10:28am

jimmyhackers wrote:just came back today from my first trip to the isle of man

If you have the gene, it must be a religious experience :)

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Re: isle of man TT Zero

Post by Punx0r » Jun 09 2015 10:29am

That's a shame. It must have been interesting being involved with such a high-profile event :)

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voicecoils   10 MW

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Re: isle of man TT Zero

Post by voicecoils » Jun 09 2015 8:29pm

Punx0r wrote:That's a shame. It must have been interesting being involved with such a high-profile event :)
That's the challenge of racing - everything on the bike has to be spot-on to do well.

This year's TT Zero is about 8 hrs away. Ten riders are on the start list (attached)

In yesterday's qualifying, one more electric motorcycle broke the ton (100 mph average lap) which I can add to the list above: Team Sarolea Racing from Belgium http://www.sarolea-racing.com/

I'm hoping to find a way to watch it live online, otherwise I'll tune in to the Manx TT radio.
Attachments
2015 SES TT Zero Start list.pdf
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voicecoils   10 MW

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Re: isle of man TT Zero

Post by voicecoils » Jun 10 2015 5:19am

Mugen wins the TT Zero again for 2015 with John McGuinness posting a lap of 119.279 mph average speed. Mugen's second rider was only 4 seconds behind and Brammo took out 3rd position with 111.620 mph average.
2015-TTZero.jpg
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jonescg   1.21 GW

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Re: isle of man TT Zero

Post by jonescg » Jun 10 2015 8:47am

Yeah massive achievement from the Mugen team!

And good on the Victammo machines for making the distance and clocking some impressive times.

Shame the other guys couldn't quite cut the qualifying times.

Just need to find a way of shoehorning >15 kWh into Voltron...

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Re: isle of man TT Zero

Post by Stevil_Knevil » Jun 10 2015 9:15am

I have an old, two album (anybody remember records?) set called "Sounds of the IOM TT" that spans from the 50's to the early 70's. Good stuff! The Moto Guzzi V8, Honda 6 and MV Agusta triple really stand out.

Wondering if somebody is recording the sounds of the electrics ..and if anyone would be able to tell the difference between the machines?

Also, anybody else think that Guy Martin would have (finally!) placed 1st if he was piloting the Mugen?
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Re: isle of man TT Zero

Post by Joseph C. » Jun 10 2015 4:26pm

Stevil_Knevil wrote:Also, anybody else think that Guy Martin would have (finally!) placed 1st if he was piloting the Mugen?
No.

He was up against John McGuinness - a 22 times TT winner versus Martin who has zero wins...
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Re: isle of man TT Zero

Post by Hillhater » Jun 10 2015 6:01pm

A TT preview show on TV had an "on board" camera lap with Bruce Anstey on his Honda Superbike.
.....those guys are just NUTS ! :shock:
The video is good, but on the show Bruce ran a commentary of the lap explaining how he was having to control wheelspin at over 100mph round curves !
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Re: isle of man TT Zero

Post by Eclectic » Jun 10 2015 7:23pm

It's amazing how little time the horizon is actually horizontal in that video.
So you've sweat and toiled and tinkered
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But when it's just you and her and the wind and the silence
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Re: isle of man TT Zero

Post by voicecoils » Jun 10 2015 10:23pm

Here's McGuiness' winning run on the Mugen bike last year. It's in full, onboard camera and nice audio of the motor.



The IoM TT is seriously extreme and routinely deadly. Probably on par with BASE jumping in deadliness & McGuiness is an outlier in having raced it so long without eliminating himself while staying competitive.

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Re: isle of man TT Zero

Post by gwhy! » Jun 12 2015 9:16am

Stevil_Knevil wrote:
Also, anybody else think that Guy Martin would have (finally!) placed 1st if he was piloting the Mugen?
I think Guy would have broken it :D .. and to be fair it was his first go on the bike .. i think with a little more peg time his times would have been a little better.

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Re: isle of man TT Zero

Post by Joseph C. » Jun 12 2015 11:17am

6 minutes and about 7 seconds into that video - there is a fairly chilling tyre wobble too. :shock:
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Re: isle of man TT Zero

Post by voicecoils » Jun 12 2015 7:42pm

Joseph C. wrote:6 minutes and about 7 seconds into that video - there is a fairly chilling tyre wobble too. :shock:
That's like a tickle compared to some of the superhuman saves pros pull off. Like this one :shock:


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