Off-Road Dreamin'

General Discussion about large electric scooters and motorcycles and other things with no pedals.
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inedible
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Re: 2015 Motorino XPn

Post by inedible » Apr 13, 2016 4:52 pm

That's similar to the charger I have for my leaf cells. I have the 1200W model, which is set to 67v (this is the cutoff where it changes from constant-current charging to constant-voltage. 67V is like 4.19v per cell, and is considered full for a 60V lithium pack). Mine came set to 18A, which is 1206W at 67V, but I ended up adjusting that down to 16A to try and keep the charger below spec, hopefully prolong its life.

These chargers are adjustable. You just need to change some potentiometers inside to set the max voltage, max current, etc. You would know that though, if you'd done your research ahead of time.

About that, you're moving really quickly here, and you're getting in over your head I think. If you do some more research you'll find these things out on your own. If you do a search of this forum for "BMSBattery alloy shell charger" you'll find several threads about this charger, including specs, modifications, shortcomings, etc. I read all these threads BEFORE I bought my charger. That's important.

It seems you still don't understand a bunch of things that are pretty fundamental to building your own DIY ebike/scooter. Learning how lithium batteries work is A#1 Top Priority before you frock around with lithium batteries. It seems you don't yet understand how they charge (they start off constant current until the battery's voltage meets the charger's, then they switch to constant voltage, tapering off on the current to top up), you don't understand the difference between Vmax and Vnominal (a "3.7v nominal" lithium battery will charge to a max of 4.2ish volts, and discharge to around 3v minimum). These are fundamental things I really suggest you research a lot more BEFORE throwing money at the situation.

I'd love to help you more, but I feel like I'm enabling you by handing you the answers at this point. There are certain lessons you need to learn. You'll either learn them by reading ahead of time, or you'll learn them when expensive things catch on fire and you kick yourself for not reading about them ahead of time.

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mistercrash
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Re: 2015 Motorino XPn

Post by mistercrash » Apr 13, 2016 6:47 pm

inedible wrote:you're moving really quickly here, and you're getting in over your head I think.
Ya think? Noc, have you taken apart your scooter at least once? Like completely apart? Have you figured out how you gonna fit those 10 Leaf modules in the scooter? That is a big honkin' controller you bought. Have you figured out where you gonna install it in the scooter?

Please be careful and slow down. And good luck. I hope you succeed. But if it doesn't work out and you get discouraged, I'm offering to buy your Leaf modules, your controller and your charger for half price. If nothing is burnt to a crisp. One last time, please be careful.

I'm outta here, I can't watch.
Is it ready yet?

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Re: 2015 Motorino XPn

Post by Noq » Apr 13, 2016 7:03 pm

+ 1 0 char
Last edited by Noq on Jan 31, 2018 7:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 2015 Motorino XPn

Post by markca » May 04, 2016 3:57 pm

hi any update on your build?

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Re: 2015 Motorino XPn

Post by nickatnoon61 » May 07, 2016 5:46 pm

mistercrash wrote:This is what I had to do to get to the top speed you want. Replace the controller with a $450 USD Kelly, the motor with a $420 USD QS MOTORS 5KW 12 inch hub, the battery with 10 Nissan Leaf modules totaling $1290 USD, and then there's the less expensive stuff like the the DC/DC, and all the power wiring plus other stuff like a contactor, fuses and relays which all had up to maybe an extra $500 USD. And all those prices don't include shipping cost or custom fees. You will need to have quite a few tools to help you modify and fabricate stuff to make everything fit.

The top speed you want will not happen with the controller and motor you have. I mean you might get to 75 km/h by adding more batteries and modifying that little controller but you can't ride more than ten seconds at that speed before your 500 W motor starts heating up very quickly. And that controller, no matter how much you modify it, it will not last. It is just not built to take a 200+ pound scooter to high speeds and give lots of torque to get there fast. The batteries from Motorino don't give the power you need, they are pretty weak and they will sag in voltage too much, no sense spending more money to get more of what will not work. If you want the performance of a small motorcycle then you will need to get small motorcycle components, electric ones that is.

Good luck.
Ray
Hi, I have been reading different threads for a few days, trying to fix my problem. This is an email I sent to Motorino in Vancouver.

Hi, my 2014 model XPh 48 V SLA has been acting up since the day I bought it. The latest issue is it won't go, and when I turn the key on the odometer starts running. Actually, I just checked and the key doesn't have to be on. The odometer runs at 97 kph until I disable power with breaker under seat. The trouble is the bike is just sitting there doing NOTHING. )= In 24 hrs I put over 300 kms on the bike while it was sitting in the shed. I shut the breaker under the seat off for the time being. Here are the symptoms of the bike. The rear brake comes on randomly, and the bike loses most of the power. I noticed the brake light coming on when I turned the steering column. I checked in there (steering column) and some connections had the clear plastic insulator slide off so I taped them up. I took it for a test ride and the rear brake rotor was getting hot as well as the motor after about 4 kms. It started sputtering no power, up the hill on the way back. I was walking the bike with a little power. Not enough power to ride it though. I am 185 lbs. I pulled left brake handle and everything stopped running including lights on the bike. It was dark out. They shut off. I had to leave the bike at a stranger's house and walk home. Also, the horn IIRC never worked. I have been doing some research on forums to find solutions. The battery seems OK, as it charges up to 52 V, and discharges to about 47 V after a few KM test drive. Unless I have a short somewhere else, it seems to me there is a problem with the Controller.
What do you think? I am in Nelson, BC. I am a senior on a disability, and I bought the bike for cheap transportation. I bought the bike with only 40 KMs on it. I also want to replace the headlight/highbeam with brighter LED ones, b/c the stock bulbs are very dim. I need to know the type of bulbs in it for replacement? Is that listed somewhere or do I have to take them out and get numbers?
In summary, here is what I need....

1. A solution to controller problem to get bike running properly
2. horn fixed
3. bulb information
Cheers... Nick

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Re: 2015 Motorino XPn

Post by Noq » Jun 04, 2016 3:15 am

+ 1 0 char
Last edited by Noq on Jan 31, 2018 7:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2015 Motorino XPn

Post by nickatnoon61 » Jun 04, 2016 2:41 pm

Thanx Noq, for at least replying, but taking any vehicle for repair to a dealer is just asking to get screwed. The whole idea behind people going electric is to save fuel money. The green part is just a positive side effect. I don't have any money to spend. If I had $500.00-$1,000.00 I would invest it into a better controller that is flexible with voltage, from 48v to maybe 72v where I want to get to for now to increase speed and range. I have done some research and there are a few out there. The problem is, most of them are more Made in China CRAP. In the meantime, I am learning more about how all these components work by watching YT videos etc. Of course Motorino never replied b/c like all dealers, they are in it for profit only. My dad was General Sales Mgr at Brown Bros Ford in Vancouver in the early 70s so I know how vehicle dealers work.
The morning after I bought the bike with only 40 KMs on it (Nov.1, 2014) it accelerated on me by itself and I got into an accident and busted up my left leg, and did $3000.00 damage to a parked car. Then, on Sun. Nov. 2, the rear brake came on by itself when I was on the way to Greyhound to catch a bus home. I am going to a lawyer to see about suing the manufacturer and dealer, etc for compensation. Maybe that will get Motorino's attention? I read an article online about NOT buying Made in China vehicles b/c they are DANGEROUS. No kidding eh??? I am handy to a degree, and can fix most mechanical problems by myself. I have just been out of the 'game' for 25 yrs. I quit driving b/c it is just too expensive. Now I know why I quit. wink
I am here to learn from others and maybe find out if anyone else had similar issues with their bikes. I'll keep researching until I literally get my bike up to 'speed'.
thanx...Nick.

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Re: 2015 Motorino XPn

Post by Noq » Jun 10, 2016 12:30 pm

+ 1 0 char
Last edited by Noq on Jan 31, 2018 7:01 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: 2015 Motorino XPn

Post by nickatnoon61 » Jun 10, 2016 2:44 pm

Congrats on getting this done Noq! I want to do similar upgrade, but I just want to get the damn thang running proper for now. I read that some times the hall sensor solder joints in the motor can be faulty and short out. This causes the throttle to malfunction. Mine is wide open now at 93 KPH, and moves the odometer ahead if I don't turn the breaker under seat off to disconnect it. I recognize that place in Blaine by the Chevron gas station! It's been years since we used to travel down there from Vancouver for Sunday drinking. So, how much did you spend all together, and what voltage are you at for now? I am anxious to get mine back on the road. I'll keep everyone posted on what my problem was, once I get it fixed. I run the XPh btw. It's a bit bigger than the other XP bikes. I like the look of the Ruckus model (XPd) better tho. https://motorino.ca/motorino-xpd Cheers....Nick.

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Re: 2015 Motorino XPn

Post by Noq » Jun 11, 2016 10:01 pm

+ 1 0 char
Last edited by Noq on Jan 31, 2018 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2015 Motorino XPn

Post by nickatnoon61 » Jun 11, 2016 11:19 pm

Noq wrote:Thanks Nick. I'm at 84V fully charged. The XPh looks good to mod but the Ruckus wouldn't have a lot of space to work with. You can see inedible's thread and how he modded it. You're right, that's Blaine. Not gonna talk about how much I spent because it's stupid, but it is state of the art and that's what you pay. I'm glad I did it in the end. I still think you have a controller issue. You should try swapping controllers real quick just to see if that fixes everything at once. You want my tech contact in Vancouver? He's full of spare parts and would likely diagnose you for free if you brought him your bike, and charge you very little to get you going.
OK Noq. I would like the tech's contact info if you please. Should I say that you highly recommended him? I was thinking same about the controller being the culprit here, but I have read about a few others having wiring problems on their Motorinos. I already checked the wiring harness from the front handlebars down, and I thought I fixed the problem of some connector insulators coming off, and shorting out. My plan is to upgrade components, so I will start with a 48v-96v controller, just to get it running, and then do the upgrade on motor next, then to Li-Ion batteries, cuz I want to get as much out of the SLAs as I can first.

Yup, on the XPh, there is lots of room for 2 batteries (one can go under seat). I haven't put my cargo bin on it yet, but will when I get it running proper. I have plans to build or buy a little trailer for it also. I can use it for grocery shopping in town. There is a baker in Nelson who rides a little solar-powered e-trike with trailer, and delivers his baked goods that way. I just saw him the other day. https://www.pinterest.com/pin/347692033705437069/ I live in the mountains about 5 miles out of Nelson. I noticed a few E-Bikers out of Calgary on the forums. Eventually, I would like to start, or join a little E-Biker Club, and we could all provide a couch or yard in summer to sleep overnight and re-charge batteries for other E-Bikers. I haven't driven in about 25 years and miss the road trips. I had a camperized van before, with a nice sound system in it. (Made by Zapco) I bought most of the electronic gear in Seattle, ( they didn't sell that equipment in Canada back then) and I wired in subs,extra speakers, etc myself.
So, you must be ECSTATIC with the results, doing wheelies on the scooter now? I know it must have cost you 2-4 Gs, probably more, to get it up there, but like you said, it is worth it, and now you can just enjoy the ride, not having to worry about over-heating, range-anxiety,fuel expenses, etc. When I do things, I like to do the best I can afford too! I have Cadillac taste on Toyota budget. lol Oh, I wanted to ask you how quiet the motor is with the OVER-KILL components you did, esp at the ASStronomical lol highway speeds you were going! ? It must be very quiet, no? I am almost as excited as you are at the success you have had, meeting your goals, after that DISASTER you had taking apart the controller! lol Keep us posted on your experiences, and, or problems (if any) you have in the future. This is a very exciting hobby, b/c the technology in e-bikes/scooters, and bigger EVs is only going to get better/cheaper in the near future, and hopefully in our life-time we will see everyone using this GREEN, and quiet technology, and dumping the OBNOXIOUS/NOISY/SMELLY gas guzzlers. OK, bye for now. I have to do some more research on upgrades. Cheers...
Last edited by nickatnoon61 on Jun 20, 2016 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2015 Motorino XPn

Post by nickatnoon61 » Jun 12, 2016 9:33 pm


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Re: 2015 Motorino XPn

Post by mistercrash » Jun 13, 2016 8:17 am

Noq wrote:Thanks mistercrash and others for the inspiration.
I inspired this!? :lol: :lol: :lol: I've created a monster.

Congratulations are in order, you got it done. I really had my doubts :) QS Motors has an 8kw motor in a 13 inch wheel. Yours looks like a 16 inch wheel. With that 120/70-16 tire that's a diameter of 22.6 inches :shock: The QS Motors 8kw V3 13 inch with a 120/60-13 tire would have a diameter of 18.7 inches. The fitment and look would be much better. You would loose a bit of top speed but you'd get even faster acceleration, maybe enough to beat that GSXR750 off the line.

And here's another suggestions from an old guy :wink: Now that you know how well your system works, get a 2004/09 Yamaha Vino 125cc. I'm sure there are plenty of them for sale in Vancouver. Then convert it to electric with your system. Bring back the Motorino to stock form and sell it, you won't need it anymore because you'll have a legal scooter with insurance and registrations and a motorcycle license and best of all, that little scooter that everyone likes to laugh at will smoke just about everything that's on the road off the line :lol:

That is what I'm doing as a father/son project. We're going to convert a Vino together. Here's our blue 2007 Vino we found for 1000 bux sitting pretty in front of my illegal Motorino. As you can see, the Motorino XPn uses the chassis and body of a cheap Chinese knock off of the Yamaha YJ125 Vino. But the fit and finish and quality of parts of the Yamaha Vino is 100 times better.

Image
Is it ready yet?

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Re: 2015 Motorino XPn

Post by mistercrash » Jun 20, 2016 5:28 pm

Noq, where did you put that big controller?
Is it ready yet?

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Re: 2015 Motorino XPn

Post by Noq » Jul 09, 2016 6:09 pm

+ 1 0 char
Last edited by Noq on Jan 31, 2018 7:02 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: 2015 Motorino XPn

Post by Scottydog » Jul 09, 2016 8:36 pm

ha ha I like it!! :twisted:

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Re: 2015 Motorino XPn

Post by Scottydog » Jul 09, 2016 8:42 pm

you need a vid or gopro footage of the blade!! :D

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Re: 2015 Motorino XPn

Post by nickatnoon61 » Jul 10, 2016 8:31 pm

Noq wrote:Hi! I'm back with a couple updates. Everything is running smoothly, except I have a speedometer problem. It seems that when I pass 92.5KMPH, the speedo deducts about 50KMPH at that point and reads 46KMPH, 47KMPH, etc. climbing upwards. My guess is that it's counting two rotations as one and dividing the total speed by two, throwing off not just my speedo but my odometer as well. I'm going to try adding some additional poles to see if that corrects the problem; otherwise, I've got to talk to the tech's at Grin who make the CA's and let them know there's a top-end issue with their speed counters. They tell me they've never seen this before, but they've also never seen a bike go this fast before so they're not sure how to address this problem.

I get good mileage. If I drive very conservatively, I can do about 150KM per charge. But since I don't, I average 80-100KM per charge, or even as low as ~65KM if I try to keep up with my gas-bike buddies. Things that kill the battery include accelerating from dead-stop on an open throttle, and maintaining speeds of over 100KM on the freeway. At full speed, it costs a constant 100-190A to maintain, not to mention a lot more power to climb up to that speed. If I drop down one volt on the throttle, I cruise at around 20-80A (values dependant on wind resistance more than anything else). So it costs around triple the power to go only ~15-20KMPH faster, which is not really worth it if you're concerned with economising battery power. In addition, doing those kind of accelerations is pretty hard on the battery. I don't think they're designed to deliver 10C like that.

Image

(VMin so low because I did this on a nearly-dead battery. Stupid, this hurts the battery.) From full charge, a 500A+ acceleration will not take the voltage nearly so low; maybe around 75ish.

So my rack broke.

Image

I wasn't too happy about that. At least my bin didn't fall off; it was held on by the metal fastener plates that spanned that point. I was able to get the new one installed and it seems to be a bit stronger with welded tube supports instead of that flat plate, although there isn't any reinforcement at the point of breakage. The part was $38.

Image

Mistercrash, here is where we were able to fit that controller (just barely):

Image

Note the accumulated grime. I might have to add a rubber flap there to combat it.

I definitely hear what you're saying about migrating to a steadier, insurable moped frame. I'm actually considering something else at this point: migrating to a motorcycle frame. Doing so would confer several advantages. First, I'd be insurable, which is good (same as the Vino). Second, I'd be way more stable than you ever really can be on a moped at those top speeds. The small front wheel and tiny, light frame just aren't meant to go past 100KMPH. An identical Vino frame would probably have the same issue. Actual motorcycles feel a lot more confident at those speeds, although there's a limit if I use this wheel because it's very small compared to motorcycle wheels, which means small contact patch with the road, which means potential for skidding. Third, I'd have extra room for additional batteries. The tech at QS Motors told me that I could run the 8kW motor at up to 120V safely. My mouth watered :D I'm not amp- or torque-limited, but I am voltage limited. Another 40V or so could see me blast wayyyyy faster on the high-end, clearing 150KMPH I imagine. Fourth, I'll have room to put more batteries in parallel, thereby increasing my range. I'd love to go farther per charge. This can only be achieved with the additional space a motorcycle frame provides. So that's the future plan. For now, I'll continue riding on this build because I haven't had any major problems yet (legal or otherwise), although sometimes I feel like my frame is too rickety to withstand the pressures of high-speed braking and I have this nervous sensation that my front wheel is going to pop off at high speeds as the weight transfers to the front...

I bought a new armoured leather motorcycle jacket and armoured leather gloves. Now I've got pads on my knees, forearms, elbows, shoulders, spine, knuckles, and palms. My boots are strong leather too. I feel safer. For the winter months, the plan is to layer with UnderArmour, a heated jacket, and my leather on top of that. For rain, I can put on a waterproof snowboarding shell and snowpants over my armoured jeans. For cold hands, it's possible to get heated riding gloves that connect on one line to the jacket, which itself runs off the 12V. Voilà!

Nick, check your PM's for my tech friend's info!


Noq
Hi Noq, Peter just emailed me back. No solution yet. He wanted me to check my breaker for continuity, but it's OK. It looks like I may need an EXORCISM on that damn thang, b/c it behaves like it is POSSESSED. :shock: It stops and goes when it wants to. How long does it take to recharge your batteries now? I am not concerned so much with speed ( I am old) as I am with range. I would like to be able to ride to Trail, (70 KMs) charge for a few hours then be able to ride back to Nelson at between 30-80 KPH. There is a very popular music fest in Salmo too every summer. It's about same distance. So, with all the new leathers, etc, do you look like the TERMINATOR now?!? L0L https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8Fyf4R-nzI

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Re: 2015 Motorino XPn

Post by nickatnoon61 » Jul 11, 2016 3:18 am

My bike accelerated by itself once, and caused an accident. Also the rear brake came on by itself the next day. That was when I first bought it Nov. 1, 2014. Now, the odometer/speedometer runs at 93 KPH when the key is on and the bike just sitting. It won't run at all.

From Pete (techie) "The only probable fault that could cause the bike to run without throttle, only to fix itself, would be an intermittent short between the 5v and signal leads on the throttle cable, or intermittent contact on the throttle ground.

Lets test to see if the speedo fault is being caused by the controller, measure dcV across ground and the speedo lead, which is a green lead reporting from the controller to a red plastic 6-pin plug, where it connects to a red/purple lead on the harness. there should be a dc voltage between 0-20V proportional to the rpm of the motor., if you see i higher voltage unplug the 6-pin plug and see if the potential is coming from within the controller.

If you send me your controller I can test it, but must charge you for my time whether it's functional or not.

Pete"

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Re: 2015 Motorino XPn

Post by mistercrash » Jul 11, 2016 8:55 am

Noq wrote:So my rack broke.

Image
That would be the reason why I want to convert a genuine motorcycle. The steel and welds of the Motorino scooters look like they're barely strong enough for a kid's tricycle. :lol: I wish my Yamaha Vino was done now, I get nervous riding the Motorino after seeing the difference between the two frames, so much that even though it has a top speed of 90, I ride it at 40. I'm glad that only your rear rack broke at the speeds you're riding. I look forward to see which kind of motorcycle you choose for your next project, I'm sure it's going to be awesome.
Is it ready yet?

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Re: 2015 Motorino XPn

Post by nickatnoon61 » Aug 02, 2016 1:52 am


Noq
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Re: 2015 Motorino XPn Improvement

Post by Noq » Apr 28, 2017 7:45 am

+ 1 0 char
Last edited by Noq on Jan 31, 2018 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2015 Motorino XPn Improvement

Post by nickatnoon61 » Apr 28, 2017 4:44 pm

Hi Noq, some nice shots of the bike and wilderness. What is the Choetech on the handlebars? A charger? It must detach when done charging? How has the bike been running since the major upgrade? I want to know what to expect with my XPh once I do same. I am leaning with the QS motor, and Kelly controller also. Best bang for buck that I've seen so far. I'll bet you have really enjoyed the nice quiet ride!

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Re: 2015 Motorino XPn Improvement

Post by Noq » Apr 28, 2017 5:33 pm

+ 1 0 char
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Re: 2015 Motorino XPn Improvement

Post by Noq » May 02, 2017 6:42 pm

+ 1 0 char
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