2010 Zero S. Project update:2/12/18

General Discussion about large electric scooters and motorcycles and other things with no pedals.
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Duck-Stew   10 mW

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2010 Zero S. Project update:2/12/18

Post by Duck-Stew » Aug 04 2016 10:43am

New to the forum, new to electric vehicles and am in awe by what some here (and elsewhere) have accomplished w/their projects. I have some ideas for electric motorcycles, but this was so cheap that I figure it will be a great low-$ learning tool for me. Been an ICE-motor-head for decades now... Just tired of pistons, valves, timing, fuel injection, ignition curves, clutches... Yeah. I don't need to continue here. Pistons suck.

Purchased a cheap (it would have to be, right?) 2010 Zero S only five minutes from my house on Tuesday. Typical (or so I'm learning) poor maintenance of the poor to begin with battery pack and a LOT of neglect by the former owner...

So, some of the LED's light up on the charger (I believe it's the charger... black box under the battery, yes?) but that's about it. Quickly quits flashing after removing the 110VAC power.

My question is this: Where do I begin to investigate if the charger/main board are even good? I'd like to do a 7-leaf cell conversion and put a few miles on this for (hopefully) cheap $ but if the charger and/or main board are history, then I'm thinking 10 leaf cells, a charger, controller and BMS might be in order... Or just sell the parts off and start up a custom build (which was going to come a year or so later anyways).

Humbly submitted,
--Stuart
Last edited by Duck-Stew on Feb 13 2018 7:25am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: 2010 Zero S. Where to start diagnosis?

Post by amberwolf » Aug 04 2016 3:06pm

You'd probably have to start by checking


individual cell (group) voltages, first without charger plugged into wall, then during charge


output voltage of the charger during charge


Then list all those here, so we can further advise. If a cell is too low, the BMS should stop the charger from being able eto ever charge the pack at all, so at that point you'd either have to bring that cell up (potential fire risk depending on why it is low and other factors) with an individual cell charger or power supply, or replace it.

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Re: 2010 Zero S. Where to start diagnosis?

Post by Hillhater » Aug 04 2016 5:51pm

Duck-Stew wrote:New to the forum, new to electric vehicles ...
.....Or just sell the parts off and start up a custom build (which was going to come a year or so later anyways).

Humbly submitted,
--Stuart
Use this as a self learning tool....you seem to know what is going to be needed, but.if you cannot fix this issue then you may be biting off too much with a full scratch build.
At worst, you already have a decent frame, power train , etc to build on .
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

Duck-Stew   10 mW

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Re: 2010 Zero S. Where to start diagnosis?

Post by Duck-Stew » Aug 08 2016 5:25pm

I should be able to get it onto my work-table in the next few days where I'm planning to remove the cables from the controller to the Agni and connect up a 12VDC power supply to the Agni to verify its' operation...

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jateureka   10 kW

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Re: 2010 Zero S. Where to start diagnosis?

Post by jateureka » Oct 16 2016 11:16pm

lots of info on the 2012and older model Zeros on the electricmotorcycle forums http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boar ... ?board=6.0

I posted a flow chart up for fault finding the 2011 s on that site too.

Some Agni motor repair links https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 10&t=65562
Last edited by jateureka on Oct 27 2016 6:06pm, edited 1 time in total.
E-bikes: Bafang 8FUN; Mac; Ezee; FreeGo; Aprilia 7s LiPo; eLation V2; TerraTrike recumbent
E-motorbikes: ZEV 7100 LR scooter, 84V 60Ah LiFePO4.
ZERO 2011 S motorcycle, 51.8V 70Ah LiMno2, 2012 headlight, Kilovac EV-200 contactor
E-mower: EGO 56V mower & line trimmer

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jateureka   10 kW

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Re: 2010 Zero S. Where to start diagnosis?

Post by jateureka » Oct 27 2016 6:01pm

Any progress with your Zero?

Here are some more links that may be useful
adding external balance connectors to battery by Doctorbass http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boar ... pic=2076.0
BMS interface pinout by Doctorbass http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boar ... 0#msg26960
List of commands for MBB and BMS by Doctorbass http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boar ... 49#msg9549
MBB settings by ElectricCowboy for race and commute http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boar ... pic=2484.0 and Doctorbass http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boar ... pic=2925.0

there was also a circuit that Doctorbass posted showing how to activate the battery pack with a relay when it was removed from the motorcycle, maybe do a search on here or the electricmotorcycle forum
E-bikes: Bafang 8FUN; Mac; Ezee; FreeGo; Aprilia 7s LiPo; eLation V2; TerraTrike recumbent
E-motorbikes: ZEV 7100 LR scooter, 84V 60Ah LiFePO4.
ZERO 2011 S motorcycle, 51.8V 70Ah LiMno2, 2012 headlight, Kilovac EV-200 contactor
E-mower: EGO 56V mower & line trimmer

Duck-Stew   10 mW

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Re: 2010 Zero S. Where to start diagnosis?

Post by Duck-Stew » Nov 04 2016 4:46pm

Duck-Stew wrote:I should be able to get it onto my work-table in the next few days where I'm planning to remove the cables from the controller to the Agni and connect up a 12VDC power supply to the Agni to verify its' operation...
Hahaha... August 8th I said I would get it onto my work-table in a few days. That happened last night, November 3rd! Wow. Life DOES get in the way!

Ok, since it's now officially a "GO", I will certainly check out all the information provided 'jateureka'. Thank you!

(side-note: Purchased a '15 Leaf SL 3 weeks ago. My wife & I's *first* EV. We're LOVING it and since we both ride, we're getting more excited about the Zero project!) 8)

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Re: 2010 Zero S. Project STARTED!

Post by Duck-Stew » Nov 29 2016 9:34am

Ok, so things are evolving... I now have an electrical engineer on board and we're thinking of upping the ante a bit:

So, here's the list:
Higher battery voltage
New bms
New charger
New controller
And most importantly: BLDC motor swap. So, what BLDC would you all recommend in place of the Agni 95R?

My goal is to improve range (would like ~60-70 miles) over the original bike, improve top speed for occasional freeway stints (75mph would be good) and to just use this chassis as a blank page.

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Re: 2010 Zero S. Project STARTED!

Post by Duck-Stew » Dec 02 2016 10:42pm

http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/96v-brushless-kit.html

This may just be the ticket... Thoughts?

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Re: 2010 Zero S. Project STARTED!

Post by Duck-Stew » Dec 13 2016 7:07am

http://elmoto.net/showthread.php?t=4362 ... #post50228

Photos of the Agni 95R here. Does this amount of wear seem normal? Worth rebuilding?

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Re: 2010 Zero S. Project STARTED!

Post by Duck-Stew » Dec 13 2016 12:27pm

http://www.electricmotorsport.com/ev-pa ... -120v.html

http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/motener ... hless.html

These look identical from the photos. Are they? The specs for voltage and output vary quite a bit...

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Re: 2010 Zero S. Project STARTED!

Post by Duck-Stew » Jan 03 2017 6:05am

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WB_H6Z4cXJY

Decided on a 96vdc system (12x Nissan leaf cells) with a Re-Volt RV160-Pro (same as project Blue-Smoke) wound to 56KV. Kelly has a 500A sine-wave controller (KLS96501-8080I) to slightly over compensate for the overrated Kelly specs as the motor is said to take 300A max. 16/72 gearing (1:4.5 ratio) and a 130/90/16 tire yeilds ~4500motor rpm at about 80mph.

That yeilds a 6.1kwh battery pack, about 28hp and from what I'm understanding about 56#/ft of torque. ReVolt now offers the motor with a liquid cooling option so I'll be getting that for sure.

Now to find a charger (set up for 240 & 120 vac input to take advantage of my J1772 Juice-Box charger), a BMS system and a 96-12v DC to DC... Suggestions? Thoughts? Am I missing anything here?

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Re: 2010 Zero S. Project update: 1/2/17

Post by Reedicus » May 02 2017 11:48pm

How did this end up going? I have a zero mx frame and was thinking about a similar set up: RV-160/leaf/Kelly. Also, any more info on water cooling the RV, I didn't see anything about it on the site. I hope this project worked out!

Duck-Stew   10 mW

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Re: 2010 Zero S. Project update: 1/2/17

Post by Duck-Stew » May 03 2017 2:08pm

Reedicus wrote:How did this end up going? I have a zero mx frame and was thinking about a similar set up: RV-160/leaf/Kelly. Also, any more info on water cooling the RV, I didn't see anything about it on the site. I hope this project worked out!
Got put on a "hold" due to funds. When I was last in discussions w/the guy @ ReVolt, he mentioned a new RV-160 with a liquid cooling option. I'm guessing he was about done w/prototyping. This was February?!? I'm not sure.

I still have the chassis and honestly, I really want to put it on the road but funds just won't be available for this until late summer at the earliest.

Also, the Motenergy ME1507 will fit in the chassis of my '10 Zero S and it's a brushless motor of higher power... So there's that.

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Re: 2010 Zero S. Project update: 1/2/17

Post by Duck-Stew » Jan 08 2018 8:00pm

Project soldiers on.

Sevcon Gen 4/Size 6 and an ME1507 is on order from Travis w/EMF-Power. Power will be from (yet to be purchased) 13x Leaf cells.

Another of my goals is to source quality motorcycle grade components to replace the Chinese "pit-bike" sourced suspension, brakes and wheels. So far, the only thing on that list I can say has been replaced is the rear shock. Nearly a direct swap to a Honda Grom shock. I'll be seeing how it rides/suspends and if inadequate, will replace w/an Ohlins unit.

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Re: 2010 Zero S. Project update: 1/8/18

Post by Duck-Stew » Feb 12 2018 11:05pm

Sevcon Gen4/Size6 & ME1507 arrived today. Stoked!
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8D76958E-F3E5-487D-95D4-EA56E0CCE6A6.jpeg
My ME1507
98EB25FB-9CE9-4DB8-9718-33249FAA875D.jpeg

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Re: 2010 Zero S. Project update:2/12/18

Post by IBScootn » Mar 14 2018 10:43pm

how much was the motor and controller. I might have access to a non-running 2010 Zero X
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ZEV T7100, 84V, 60AH, 65+mph; Mods: TNC throttle, windshield, Cycle Analyst , Cell Log , and custom charger
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Big EV Grin. :)

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Re: 2010 Zero S. Project update:2/12/18

Post by Duck-Stew » Mar 27 2018 8:56am

I got them from Travis @ EMF. He's dropped the pricing since I purchased them, but I *think* the controller was a group buy and he may not have access to anymore. Best to contact him direct.

www.emf-power.com

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Re: 2010 Zero S. Project update:2/12/18

Post by frodus » Jul 05 2018 5:44pm

Duck-Stew wrote:
Mar 27 2018 8:56am
I got them from Travis @ EMF. He's dropped the pricing since I purchased them, but I *think* the controller was a group buy and he may not have access to anymore. Best to contact him direct.

www.emf-power.com
These are still available for the near future.

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