E-Bike XB502 conversion project

General Discussion about large electric scooters and motorcycles and other things with no pedals.

Re: E-Bike XB502 conversion project

Postby Ianhill » Fri Dec 09, 2016 5:28 pm

Does this look any good price wise too you I know the capacity is way to low for yourself but its the correct BMS you got ?
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Re: E-Bike XB502 conversion project

Postby ElectricGod » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:09 am

A little progress in this project...

I have a motor coming for it. It's a LightningRods big block. I'm getting it opened up so it will run cooler at higher wattage. I have built an 82 volt LIPO pack that I'll start with, but later I intend to run it at 118 volts. One of the things I am going to do is add a blower to the motor. The motor from the factory comes with a stub for a radial fan. LR cuts them off to get the motor width down to fit on a bike frame between the cranks. I'm getting it with the stub in place since width for me isn't a critical issue. Anyway, the motor comes with a radial fan. I intend to try a regular fan blade from a PC fan and a blower. I bought an anemometer so I can measure air flow through the motor. Whichever of the three fan types moves the most air will go on the motor. This motor is a joint project with LR. He wants to see what is the maximum wattage one of these motors can run at and also, wants to try it out on a couple of different controllers he wants to possibly use.

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Re: E-Bike XB502 conversion project

Postby ElectricGod » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:42 pm

I have a LightningRods big block on its way here. It's end plates are opened up and I intend to add a blower to it so I can run it at 5000 watts or more. I also have a controller on order that is good for 150 volts.
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Re: E-Bike XB502 conversion project

Postby ElectricGod » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:46 am

The motor will arrive today...can't wait!
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Re: E-Bike XB502 conversion project

Postby ElectricGod » Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:14 pm

Grrr...MLK day...the post office is closed.
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Re: E-Bike XB502 conversion project

Postby ElectricGod » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:21 am

GRRR...the motor was delivered today, but it needed to be signed for and of course I was at work so I have to go to the post office tomorrow to pick it up.
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Re: E-Bike XB502 conversion project

Postby ElectricGod » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:09 pm

The motor arrived!!! I'll run it on the bench a few times and then pull apart the phases so I can externally switch from WYE to delta via relay. The moped is blue and silver. I think I'll paint it blue to match.

Image
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Re: E-Bike XB502 conversion project

Postby Ianhill » Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:57 am

Its here yay :lol:
How's the cover say 48v 1100w I thought you was having a lightning big block ?
Looks a nice quality motor though good heat dissipation nice and wide with fins and big ass vent holes I like it but I confused.
Rotor looks lovely through the vent nice and wide should get some good turning force off that what's the KV on it low ?
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Re: E-Bike XB502 conversion project

Postby ElectricGod » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:42 pm

Ianhill wrote:Its here yay :lol:
How's the cover say 48v 1100w I thought you was having a lightning big block ?
Looks a nice quality motor though good heat dissipation nice and wide with fins and big ass vent holes I like it but I confused.
Rotor looks lovely through the vent nice and wide should get some good turning force off that what's the KV on it low ?


Rated Kv is 62, but my other big block measures at 48kv...don't know about this one yet. I tested by spinning the motor with a drill, check RPM on my laser tacho and measure the output voltage. I then ran it on my trapezoidal Kelly controller and the motor RPM at full throttle on 82 volts was pretty close to the same Kv as I measured when spinning it with a drill...48Kv.

I know...saw that too. There's a fan cowl that comes with the motor. It says 1100 watts on a sticker, but I can tell you for fact this is not a 1000 or 1100 watt motor. He paints over that misprint on the end plate when he gets the other rework done on the motors so it never comes up. It's total BS information. I used to sell tablets that I got from China. The invoice on the box was never correct. I would pay $50 for a tablet and the invoice would say I paid $15 and then I would order 100 of them and the invoice would say 55. I think it's a way to pay less import taxes. A 3000 watt motor has more taxes on it than does a 1000 watt motor...or something like that.

LR sent me this picture a while back for reference for the opened up version. Check out those numbers on it...60 volts and 850 watts. Who ever makes those end plates or puts them on the motors obviously doesn't care if they get it right or not. Despite that completely wrong information on the end plates, the motors are legit and I run mine with no overheating problems at 3500+ watts all the time. The new one will get tried out at 82 volts and then go to 130 volts soon after that and will run at 5000 watts. Show me an 1100 watt motor that can to that.

Image
Last edited by ElectricGod on Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:18 pm, edited 3 times in total. View post history.
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Re: E-Bike XB502 conversion project

Postby Ianhill » Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:35 pm

48kv is kick arse it should have a nice low no load current, Are these available to the UK ?
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Re: E-Bike XB502 conversion project

Postby ElectricGod » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:03 am

Ianhill wrote:48kv is kick arse it should have a nice low no load current, Are these available to the UK ?


Yes Lightningrods ships to everywhere. Who knows if I got a one off or what. LR insists that they are typically 62kv which is still nice and low.
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Re: E-Bike XB502 conversion project

Postby ElectricGod » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:21 pm

I've done some work yesterday and this morning...

It's all double checked, but I haven't tried it out yet.

After spinning up the big block a few times to make sure it worked, I decided it was time to take apart the motor and bring out all the phase ends. The driven end cap was harder to get off than I remember, but it still came off easily enough. I mostly took it off just to see what the inside of the driven plate looked like and to take some pictures.

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Once that was done, it was time to bring out the phase ends. I was surprised to see the phase ends were welded to the phase wires or welded together. The copper wire was literally melted together.

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This is the phase ends that used to be connected as WYE.

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All the phase ends were welded to the wires so I had to cut off the melted copper blob and then tin all the phase ends. I used large wire crimps to bind the phase ends to phase wires. After they were crimped, I soldered the crimps on so that the connection between the phase ends and the phase wires was the best possible.

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Once all the phase ends were soldered, I double insulated each one with heat shrink. Every step of the way, I labeled all the wires so that I would not get one phase confused with another or the phase ends.

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This is all the phase wires zipped tied down and secured. Where the wires come out through that opening in the can, they are covered in 2 layers of heat shrink.

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The relay has 9 phase wires soldered to it. In it's unenergized state, the relay puts the motor in WYE. I reused that long cable that came on the motor for all the phase wiring. I still have three 6" long sections left. The rest is either in the motor or soldered to the relay. There are 6 phase ends and 3 phase connections going to the controller, They all terminate in 5.5mm bullets. IE: It can all be taken apart if there is ever a problem. I haven't done it yet, but once I have tested it all out, I'll embed all those phase wire ends soldered to the relay in hot glue to better secure them and to act as an insulator so there is no chance of a short.

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The schematic... I have seen several peoples schematics for WYE/delta switching and thought they were somewhat confusing. As a result, I drew my own that made sense to me.

Image
Last edited by ElectricGod on Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: E-Bike XB502 conversion project

Postby ElectricGod » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:39 pm

I hooked up the motor to a controller and found that a hall was wrong so I had to swap two halls to get the motor running, but after that, it ran in wye and delta and I got better than 1.7X RPM increase when switched to delta. IE: Good to go! I did a video which will be uploaded in a while.
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Re: E-Bike XB502 conversion project

Postby Ianhill » Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:28 am

I'll be watching, let us nw the controller type and what the no load current changes too cheers.
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Re: E-Bike XB502 conversion project

Postby ElectricGod » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:32 pm

E-Bike XB-502 (Moped) conversion project
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Currie kick scooter conversion project
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Re: E-Bike XB502 conversion project

Postby Ianhill » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:08 pm

You have loads of videos I've not seen I'll have to get some popcorn, I thought it would be a low no load in wye 1'ish amp is sweet its goes from very efficient to flat out mad in delta.
My mate had a compound fracture and skin graft on his leg on Saturday crashed his razor e300, I've always called them lethal in stock form so maybe a 4kw + boma on one may be a step to far for the little toy.
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Re: E-Bike XB502 conversion project

Postby ElectricGod » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:01 pm

Most are paintball videos. There's an EV playlist for just the relevant stuff on ES
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Re: E-Bike XB502 conversion project

Postby ElectricGod » Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:22 pm

I created a separate thread for the motor build...

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=86152&p=1260246#p1260246
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Re: E-Bike XB502 conversion project

Postby ElectricGod » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:34 am

Delta on the big block is a bust. It just uses loads of current. The back EMF in delta is the problem. The motor was built and refined to run in WYE. Oh well, 136 volts in WYE is still going to be plenty fast.
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Re: E-Bike XB502 conversion project

Postby ElectricGod » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:36 am

The Currie is done so it's time to get going on the moped build. It's been out in my garage for the past almost 6 months collecting dust. I blasted it with compressed air before I brought it inside. A bunch of the cowlings are still in the garage. The rest of them on the back came off tonight so I can get at the swing arms to mount the big block. The motor will mount just a little behind the pivot point. It will be mostly sprung.

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The dashboard got pulled off and the gauges removed. It had 52 volt light bulbs in it which I replaced with 12 volt LEDs. I'll keep the directional and headlight indicator, but the other things on it will get spray painted black and then the plastic will get cut to take a watt meter and temp gauge.

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This is the rear wheel sprocket which I got put together tonight. It's 66T which if I want to duplicate the gearing on my blue scooter, then I need an 18T driver on the motor...which I have.

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This is the original back wheel from the blue scooter. It wobbles and isn't very well balanced, but it's a wheel I already have of the correct size so for now it will go on the moped in place of the incredibly weak hub motor which weighs probably 40 pounds. This wheel weighs probably 8 or 10 pounds at most.

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And...the back end all stripped down so I can work on getting the motor in there and then fit the wheel in and the rest of the things that need to go back here. I want to try and get as much space out of that back area that I can. Under the seat is a decent storage space that wastes about 40% of the available room. Kind of like the battery bay...which was much smaller before I made my own battery box.

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This picture shows the swing arms. You can see the pivot point and then a cross piece just behind it. The motor will sit right on top of the cross piece.

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Since I had all the cowlings taken apart, it was a good time to replace all the light bulbs with LEDs which I bought several months ago. The lights that came on the moped were lame and not very bright. This is the front running lights. They are brighter than the original head lights. I've used these 3 watt COB LED lights for all the tail lights and directionals. They should be very visible.

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The head lights are now 25 watt LED lamps. These lights are supposed to be bulbs for fog lights. They are quite bright and easily 5X brighter than the original bulbs. All the replacement LED lights are the same socket as the original bulbs so they were easily replaced. I still need to sort out the wiring a bit to seperate out all the lights and whatnot so they are running on 12 volts rather than battery voltage. Also, the way the direction lights work is a bit clugy and only runs at 48 volts, I'll have to redo all of that.

Image
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Re: E-Bike XB502 conversion project

Postby ElectricGod » Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:51 pm

I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet, but the electrical at first blush looked pretty decent, but then I came across several spliced wires where they are just twisted together and taped over. That's not going to be very reliable. My blue scooter was similarly wired and it caused an electrical short that fried half my wiring. If you look closely at the blue wires and right by that loose red wire, you can see the end of the blue wire protruding out of the tape. That's not a problem waiting to happen. Geez what a crappy wiring job! There's 3 splices here...black, blue and red. Black and red are batt- and batt+, blue is the ignition switch or batt+. Yeah...lets short those 3 wires together...nothing bad will ever happen when full battery current goes across 20 awg wires. I'll probably cut the wires back to somewhere in the front cowling area, add a terminal block and then run new wires to the back. There's 11 wires here. I have 12 position terminal blocks that will work here.

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I also need to rework the directional circuit a bit to work with a 12 volt, low current system. Since I'm now running LEDs, the current draw will be much less than the light bulbs. It currently uses a 2 wire blinker module. I don't know if I can get a low wattage 12 volt 2 wire blinker or not. I'd really like to NOT have to rewire for an LED blinker module. They use internal relays for left and right and connect to 12 volts. Anyway 2 wires that need no rework vs 7 wires and lots of wiring rework. When people convert their cars over to LED, they commonly have issues with the directionals since the module heats up and that causes a bi-metalic strip to flex. The heat is generated by the current draw from the bulbs. Too little current and the blinker fires slowly or not at all. A "fix" for this is to add a resistor across all the LED bulbs so they draw more current. That's a dumb idea since the whole idea is to make the system use LESS current while producing more light.

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This is where the motor will sit. When the rear shocks are compressed, the motor gets pretty close to that curved tube. I will need to keep the motor down as low as I can get it. Also, the back wheel has to fit into the forks so I can't move the motor back very far and still clear the tire. It will be a close fit!

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Re: E-Bike XB502 conversion project

Postby Ianhill » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:33 pm

I'll dig an old link out I had from my car days,
They opened the flasher relay up and changed a resistor on the biasing circuit from 5.5k to 1meg and all was well the led blinked with correct timing and used less power.
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Re: E-Bike XB502 conversion project

Postby ElectricGod » Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:52 pm

Ianhill wrote:I'll dig an old link out I had from my car days,
They opened the flasher relay up and changed a resistor on the biasing circuit from 5.5k to 1meg and all was well the led blinked with correct timing and used less power.


I found a 2 wire electronic LED flasher on ebay. It cost $7.
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Re: E-Bike XB502 conversion project

Postby ElectricGod » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:44 am

I worked on the moped tonight and got the battery pack completed. There's two 16,000mah 20S packs here and each one has an 80 amp BMS on it. I had the BMS's so it seemed to make more sense to use them rather than buy a single larger amperage BMS. The main wires are 8 awg and each pack is 5 sets of 4S LIPO packs that interconnect with 10 awg wires. Hopefully I wont be using 160 amps, but more like 80 amps max. I've been using these packs with the BMS for bench testing, but they've never been in an EV yet...until now. The 8 awg wires terminate in long 8mm bullets. They are good for about 250 amps. I had to adapt the balance cables of each BMS to the 4S LIPO packs balance connectors. It took a couple of hours to connect up 4S balance connectors for the packs to the BMS balance cable. I could have stacked the two BMS on top of each other, but they have status LEDs for each channel and staggering them allows me to see the LEDs on both boards.

Image
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Re: E-Bike XB502 conversion project

Postby ElectricGod » Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:18 am

I found this in the handle bar wiring area so I'm replacing it with a terminal block. Why they spliced multiple wires together and then cut them off is beyond my ability to fathom. The wire ends weren't even covered in electrical tape. What a great way to get a short!

Image
Last edited by ElectricGod on Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:48 am, edited 2 times in total. View post history.
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