Ebike scooter project QS 4kw V3 72v, Kelly KEB72601

[smeagol222]

10" 4000w v3 QS motor (I've been told by QS its more like 7kw peak).
http://www.qs-motor.com/product/10inch- ... hub-motor/

Paired with 4KW-4.5KW Kelly Programmable Motor Controller(KEB72601) Peak Phase 280A Continuous Phase 110A (which I'm told at 'normal' values its 55-60a continuous, and 90amp peak)
http://www.qs-motor.com/product/4kw-4-5 ... rkeb72601/

Ordered 72v 20ah portable lifepo4 (65a continuous, and 85amp peak discharge). Going to make a secondary 18650 which I'll explain further down
Wheel 7000w peak, but 72v x 90a is 6480w.

For kelly programming QS told me to put motor current at 100%, and battery current limit to about 70%.
so 70% of 120 is 84a. 72v at 84a = 6048watts. QS say that it can do 7000w peak

to get this exact number it would mean 97.22amps at 72v. This would mean setting the battery current limit to 81.01%. I dont want to damage the wheel or controller, but I still want max performance. I suppose I should just go with what QS is recommending?


The ebike being used

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using 6awg wires and Zeva smart precharger
https://goo.gl/jPs5gp

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main contactor SW80 NO (normally open) style Coil Voltage 72V 100A DC Contactor ZJW100A
https://goo.gl/lBlx1t

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The controller

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The battery

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The QS wheel

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High power DC converter 35a
https://goo.gl/AYGrUl
For use with air horns

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Low power DC converter 10A (lights, precharger etc)
https://goo.gl/9lnMVj

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Wolo Air horns
Model 419 12v 123.5 Decibels 530 / 680 Hz
https://goo.gl/0qrpvd
Model 619 12v 123.5 Decibels 320 Hz
https://goo.gl/yzLrZs

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LED headlight bar
12" inch 72W Flood Spot Combo Current draw:6A@12 ?
http://a.co/5tlanAz

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Trunk with LED (46 Ltr)
https://goo.gl/uKFm0l

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Watt meter/Ammeter with 100a shunt - only $20 cad, didn't really need the whole Cycle Analyst for $160+ etc
https://goo.gl/rHU4X2

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Some initial wiring - will be connecting the (+) out of ammeter to PWR so it gets turned off with ignition

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[ElectricGod]

After seeing your light bar, I found them elsewhere and bought a couple of the slightly smaller ones. I really like that trunk. I'd like to see some close-up pics of the inside of the thing once you have it. I might get one for my moped project. It has a plastic trunk that came with it, but it's pretty crappy.

BTW...I meant to mention this to you earlier, but a laptop power supply doesn't really run on 120v AC. you can hook it up to a DC power source and it will still work. They are a great way to get 12 volts at pretty high amps for uber cheap.

[smeagol222]

After seeing your light bar, I found them elsewhere and bought a couple of the slightly smaller ones. I really like that trunk. I'd like to see some close-up pics of the inside of the thing once you have it. I might get one for my moped project. It has a plastic trunk that came with it, but it's pretty crappy.

BTW...I meant to mention this to you earlier, but a laptop power supply doesn't really run on 120v AC. you can hook it up to a DC power source and it will still work. They are a great way to get 12 volts at pretty high amps for uber cheap.

Yeah I was trying to decide what to get, my other option was the 9" 54W combo (might still get this one if I find the 72w is sucking too much power). Its cool they have flood and spot combos. Also the 18w spots are great too (2 of them)
http://a.co/8j5T0fe

The trunk is this one
http://www.bestemusa.com/Bestem-T-Box-9 ... _1040.html

They have some other pics on their site, its cool there are some quick release bullet connectors for the lights in case you need to remove the trunk.
I was wanting to put some orange LED light strips underneath the red built in bar for indicators pretty cheap from amazon.

[smeagol222]

Yesterday the wheel and controller were delivered. Now its just a matter of figuring out the kelly wiring harness.

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So the controller has extra piece of metal heatsink looking thing. I'm guessing it gets mounted like this so the fins point down

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Going through the KEB manual trying to figure out what all the wires mean. They all seem to be numbered so it shouldnt be too hard. I'm putting them in order I can see on the plugs to get my head around it easier.
http://kellycontroller.com/mot/download ... Manual.pdf

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Main connector B+ plug - does this just bolt onto the B+ terminal on the controller?

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J2 Pin Definition
1. PWR: Controller power supply - from manual goes to main (+) key switch
2. RTN: Signal return, or power supply ground - from manual goes to throttle switch, and throttle GND

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3. RTN: Signal return - from manual looks like this goes to brake switch, brake GND and reverse switch?
5. Throttle analog input, 0-5V - from manual goes to throttle out
7. 5V: 5V supply output, <40mA - from manual goes to 5V out for throttle, brake and motor

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14.RTN: Signal return - from manual goes to GND for motor
4. 12V high-level brake and motor temperature input - motor didnt come with temp sensor unfortunatly and I'm not game to open the thing up (I'm sure its more involved than just uncrewing the allen key bolts right?
7. 5V: 5V supply output, <40mA - from manual goes to 5V out for motor

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Hall sensors seem pretty straight forward go straight to motor hall A, B, C
13.Hall phase A
12.Hall phase B
11.Hall phase C

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three wires with pins and heatshrink
10.Brake switch input - from manual goes to brake switch
6. Brake analog input, 0-5V - from manual goes to brake OUT
9. Reversing switch input - from manual reverse switch but ALSO connects to GND 3 which goes to brake switch and brake GND (so brake stops reversing also)

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2. RTN: Signal return, or power supply ground - from manual goes to throttle switch, and throttle GND
1. PWR: Controller power supply - from manual goes to main (+) key switch
8. Micro_SW: Throttle switch input. - from manual goes to throttle switch
B+ goes to on kelly controller?

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Now onto wires from motor
3 thick phase wires pretty straight forward get bolted onto the 3 phase terminals on kelly controller (please can someone confirm I have the colors right?)
PHASE A - yellow
PHASE B - green
PHASE C - blue

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There is a main hall sensor plug which looks like it goes straight into the hall sensor plug for the controller which is great,

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BUT there is another plug that has been sealed up with silicon that I'm not sure what its for. Seems like I am not mean to use it, can someone explain what this might be?

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[ElectricGod]

After seeing your light bar, I found them elsewhere and bought a couple of the slightly smaller ones. I really like that trunk. I'd like to see some close-up pics of the inside of the thing once you have it. I might get one for my moped project. It has a plastic trunk that came with it, but it's pretty crappy.

BTW...I meant to mention this to you earlier, but a laptop power supply doesn't really run on 120v AC. you can hook it up to a DC power source and it will still work. They are a great way to get 12 volts at pretty high amps for uber cheap.

Yeah I was trying to decide what to get, my other option was the 9" 54W combo (might still get this one if I find the 72w is sucking too much power). Its cool they have flood and spot combos. Also the 18w spots are great too (2 of them)
http://a.co/8j5T0fe

The trunk is this one
http://www.bestemusa.com/Bestem-T-Box-9 ... _1040.html

They have some other pics on their site, its cool there are some quick release bullet connectors for the lights in case you need to remove the trunk.
I was wanting to put some orange LED light strips underneath the red built in bar for indicators pretty cheap from amazon.

72 watts is a lot. I run 18 watt and a 6 watt head lights. The 18 watt throws light low and down the road so I can see at night. The 6 watt points upwards a little for the cars to see. It's purely a visibility thing because none of it's light hits the road. I want to add a third front light that is high on my handle bars for better lighting on the road, but it will still be 18 watts. That's plenty of light for low speeds like 40mph.

[ElectricGod]

Most motors have yellow, blue and green wires. Just hook up the same colored wires from the controller to those wires. Same for hall wires. Also, consider cutting off those phase connectors and replacing them with 8mm Bullets. They hold really well, handle all the current you can throw at them, are super cheap and really compact. I use 8mm bullets for battery and phase connections on everything.

Unless you are running that controller close to it's maximum current limits, you wont need the heat sink. Just mount the controller to some flat metal object and that's good enough. If it's exposed to the outside air, then it is probably getting lots of air flow over it already. Mine is enclosed in a battery bay and I use the side wall of the battery box as my heatsink. It works quite well despite the controller being crammed in with no airflow over it's case.

[smeagol222]

72 watts is a lot. I run 18 watt and a 6 watt head lights. The 18 watt throws light low and down the road so I can see at night. The 6 watt points upwards a little for the cars to see. It's purely a visibility thing because none of it's light hits the road. I want to add a third front light that is high on my handle bars for better lighting on the road, but it will still be 18 watts. That's plenty of light for low speeds like 40mph.

Yeah you're right, I'll see how it goes. I like to have a lot of light and for visibility too- max will be 85km/hr or 52.8166mph . The two 18w I have on that emmo urban are perfect, althought a bit more flood would be nice

I wonder if I can get those 2 wolo horns going at the same time. Would be cool to hook them up to the same switch, trying to think how the wiring schematic would be. They both use a relay diagrams look identical. I could hook them up to the same switch on GND side?

419 model

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619 model

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[smeagol222]

Most motors have yellow, blue and green wires. Just hook up the same colored wires from the controller to those wires. Same for hall wires. Also,

Only problem is kelly controller is only labeled A, B and C without colors.

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consider cutting off those phase connectors and replacing them with 8mm Bullets. They hold really well, handle all the current you can throw at them, are super cheap and really compact. I use 8mm bullets for battery and phase connections on everything.

Did you mean cutting off the ring connectors for the thick phase wires coming from motor and replace with 8mm bullet connectors? Seems like these are already perfect to bolt straight onto the kelly A, B, C controller plates?

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[ElectricGod]

Most motors have yellow, blue and green wires. Just hook up the same colored wires from the controller to those wires. Same for hall wires. Also,

Only problem is kelly controller is only labeled A, B and C without colors.

IMG_20161201_151153.jpg

consider cutting off those phase connectors and replacing them with 8mm Bullets. They hold really well, handle all the current you can throw at them, are super cheap and really compact. I use 8mm bullets for battery and phase connections on everything.

Did you mean cutting off the ring connectors for the thick phase wires coming from motor and replace with 8mm bullet connectors? Seems like these are already perfect to bolt straight onto the kelly A, B, C controller plates?

IMG_20161201_150923.jpg

LOL...Oh yeah...didn't think about that. You have bolt on connections on the controller and motor...might as well use them. My kelly controllers terminated the phase wires in a bolt on lug like you have on your motor. I cut them off and replaced them with 8mm bullets. There's no point if your motor wires are long enough to reach your controller. The phase wires coming out of my controllers are fairly short...6" long and I wanted to disconnect at the motor so I ran 8 awg silicon wires from the controller out to the motor. Everything terminates in 8mm bullets. If you are running your controller in an open place where you basically need to just secure the wires then terminating at the motor doesn't really matter. In my scooter, the battery box is 100% enclosed with a 5/8" hole at each back corner for all wires to exit out of. There was no room to run the motor cable into the battery bay or to later pull it back out if needed. I needed to leave the phase wires in place and disconnect at the motor. As a result I ran those three 8 awg wire and terminated in bullets on both ends. I also terminated the hall cable close to the motor and connect to a hall cable via an IP68 6 pin connector. I like my solution so well, that I'll probably continue doing this for anywhere it's appropriate. It keeps the motor wires short and all the wiring to the motor never gets moved or replaced.

Regarding a,b or c posts on the controller. Just bolt down the three motor phases, but get the halls color coordinated. Worst case you will have the motor phases hooked up wrong and the motor will spin backwards or not at all. Swap any two phases and try again and that's probably all you will need to do. You wont hurt anything connecting the phase wires incorrectly. There is one caveat...and it doesn't hurt anything, but runs the motor efficiently. You can have the motor run and have the halls and phases connected incorrectly. You will know pretty quickly because current draw will be inordinately high for a free wheeling motor. Swap the phases again until you find the right one. At most, it will take 9 attempts to get the correct combination.

[ElectricGod]

I was looking around for a cheap 12 volt power supply. This ought to work well and gives you both 5 and 12 volts.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BESTEK-100W-AC- ... Sw3v5XIsQS

Or for more current...12 volts 10 amps...which is all I need.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2A-3A-5A-6A-8A- ... ZmYXQoN6Sw

Most AC adapters will work at 80 volts.

I found that DC-DC converter you linked to from alibaba on ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/131865493906

[smeagol222]

Cool, I had no idea 12v ac power adaptors did the same thing dc to dc converters do. Well next time I guess eh.

Yeah that DC converter looks like the exact same one, I paid about the same $50USD. They jump in price when the amps are around 30 or so.

Also need to decipher this circuit diagram in chinese. Know anyone?

[smeagol222]

Cool, I had no idea 12v ac power adaptors did the same thing dc to dc converters do. Well next time I guess eh.

Yeah that DC converter looks like the exact same one, I paid about the same $50USD. They jump in price when the amps are around 30 or so.

Also need to decipher this circuit diagram in chinese. Know anyone?

The attachment dc-converter-35a.jpg is no longer available

Okay so got an english version of the circuit diagram.

"35A. yellow line + output 12V, - in black line , - negative output blue line, + red line input , Green Line electric door lock line. if the car is 3-wire converter connector, black and blue common negative-, red and green positive input, output 12V yellow +"

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This is the only description they gave. Not sure what "air switch" or "lock" switch are? At least I understand that...

1. Yellow wire = positive output 12v (usually the case)
2. Black wire = negative input
3. Blue wire = negative output 12v
4. Red wire = positive input

This part still confuses me " if the car is 3-wire converter connector, black and blue common negative-, red and green positive input, output 12V yellow +"

[smeagol222]

Ok so QS guy told me about the phase wires and colors
Phase A - yellow Phase B- green Phase C- blue

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And also The second plug coming from the motor is a duplicate- I guess thats cool? Do hall sensors fail often then?

"The motor has two group of hall connectors. The second one is extra hall connector, you can use it when one is broken. So now you just ignore this one"

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[ElectricGod]

Halls fail, but I can't say they fail very often. I've replaced a few now and then, but they died because of me, not because they failed on their own.

[ElectricGod]

Cool, I had no idea 12v ac power adaptors did the same thing dc to dc converters do. Well next time I guess eh.

Yeah that DC converter looks like the exact same one, I paid about the same $50USD. They jump in price when the amps are around 30 or so.

Also need to decipher this circuit diagram in chinese. Know anyone?

dc-converter-35a.jpg

Okay so got an english version of the circuit diagram.

"35A. yellow line + output 12V, - in black line , - negative output blue line, + red line input , Green Line electric door lock line. if the car is 3-wire converter connector, black and blue common negative-, red and green positive input, output 12V yellow +"

dc-converter.JPG

This is the only description they gave. Not sure what "air switch" or "lock" switch are? At least I understand that...

1. Yellow wire = positive output 12v (usually the case)
2. Black wire = negative input
3. Blue wire = negative output 12v
4. Red wire = positive input

This part still confuses me " if the car is 3-wire converter connector, black and blue common negative-, red and green positive input, output 12V yellow +"

Air switch looks like it applies power to the converter. Lock is soft on/off. IE: you can leave the converter powered up, but turn off the output with the lock switch. I'm guessing of course...cuz I don't really know.

[smeagol222]

So brought the bike upstairs to start pulling it apart to see where things would fit. Its like I thought seems to be a lot of room to work with! So much more than emmo urban!

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Smart precharger arrived, and 12v amber indicator LED strips for rear trunk. I have the trunk sitting in storage until I need it.

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There is nice little mini front rack for the LED light bar to sit on!

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Also going to replace the front headlight bulbs with LED ones (only $5 each for 12w 800LM - which is fine for daytime driving lights)

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This will replace the large bulb, the smaller one seems to hardwired in plug and all, might just leave this one since the plug already fits perfectly (and I think I might have enough LED as the stage hahah)

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[smeagol222]

So the lifepo4 battery from aliexpress fell through. Any advice for first time diy battery building 18650 cells 72v 40ah or 30ah?

Or somewhere in USA or Canada I can get 72v 40ah pack ready made? Or Chinese.. Reliable

[mistercrash]

What are the inside dimensions of the battery box on the scooter?

[smeagol222]

38cm depth
23cm width
36cm length

[mistercrash]

I'm thinking ten Nissan Leaf modules would fit nice and snug in that box. 74V nominal and 64Ah.

[smeagol222]

Oh yeah? Are the easily removable for charging? Battery has to be charged inside apartment

[mistercrash]

Oh yeah? Are the easily removable for charging? Battery has to be charged inside apartment

Oh yeah!
Ten modules would be 32.5 cm high by 22.3 cm wide by 34.6 cm long. So it should slip snuggly in that box. And you can get them out and take them inside if you are strong enough

Good luck.

[marcexec]

Oh yeah? Are the easily removable for charging? Battery has to be charged inside apartment

Oh yeah!
Ten modules would be 32.5 cm high by 22.3 cm wide by 34.6 cm long. So it should slip snuggly in that box. And you can get them out and take them inside if you are strong enough

Good luck.

They are very handy to work with - the holes in the corners for the threaded rods (or bolts) should give you a nice opportunity to attach handles. Try to get the original Leaf/NV200/Fluence plastics, copper bars and wiring with them, makes things even easier. some pics in my (unupdated) thread.

[smeagol222]

So where can I buy nissan leaf batteries?

Are there special BMS's or special charger to balance each of the "leaves"?

[mistercrash]

So where can I buy nissan leaf batteries?

Are there special BMS's or special charger to balance each of the "leaves"?

Easy to get the ''leaves'' here. You have a choice of older sardine can style with less a/h which are cheaper to buy or the newer version with a bit more a/h. http://hybridautocenter.com/HAC4/index. ... Itemid=195

Or you can get one of their kits for golf carts. http://hybridautocenter.com/HAC4/index. ... Itemid=195

My Nissan Leaf battery is bulk charged all week and balanced charged once on the weekend using either a BC168 charger or a UNA 9S Plus charger. I balance charge 5S at a time after bulk charging. The cells stay very well balanced so a weekly balance is probably overkill but I like to keep a close eye on what goes on.