ixxat USB-to-CAN compact & Sevcon DLD flashing

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Re: ixxat USB-to-CAN compact & Sevcon DLD flashing

Postby kiwifiat » Sat May 27, 2017 1:27 am

methods wrote:Update:

* Confirmed -part number ending in 3 for SIN/COS.
EDIT
Doctorbass wrote:Also Are you sure the Sin/Cos and A/B sin/cos are only decoded by the last digit of the serial number?.. i tought it was the last 3.. like xxxxxxxx201 (A/B UVW) and xxxxxxxx203 (for the A/B UVW Sin/cos) ?


-methods


Just to throw a spanner in the works on sin/cos compatibility I have two gen4's that came direct from test vehicles used at Ashwoods Electric Motors in the UK that were fitted with heinzmann pms120's and Ashwoods own ELMO-S112, both motors are fitted with sin/cos encoders. The part number of the gen4's I have is 634A8320.

Doc, Methods says part number and you say serial number, is that what you ment to say?

Given that it is a hardware difference I wonder if it is not the hardware version number available from DVT that would be the most logical place to identify sin/cos compatibility. Anyway I intend to trace the sin/cos input pins on a compatible model and compare the circuitry compared to non compatible board to see if it is just unpopulated parts or totally different circuitry.
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Re: ixxat USB-to-CAN compact & Sevcon DLD flashing

Postby Doctorbass » Sat May 27, 2017 10:27 pm

kiwifiat wrote:
methods wrote:Update:

* Confirmed -part number ending in 3 for SIN/COS.
EDIT
Doctorbass wrote:Also Are you sure the Sin/Cos and A/B sin/cos are only decoded by the last digit of the serial number?.. i tought it was the last 3.. like xxxxxxxx201 (A/B UVW) and xxxxxxxx203 (for the A/B UVW Sin/cos) ?


-methods


Just to throw a spanner in the works on sin/cos compatibility I have two gen4's that came direct from test vehicles used at Ashwoods Electric Motors in the UK that were fitted with heinzmann pms120's and Ashwoods own ELMO-S112, both motors are fitted with sin/cos encoders. The part number of the gen4's I have is 634A8320.

Doc, Methods says part number and you say serial number, is that what you ment to say?



Given that it is a hardware difference I wonder if it is not the hardware version number available from DVT that would be the most logical place to identify sin/cos compatibility. Anyway I intend to trace the sin/cos input pins on a compatible model and compare the circuitry compared to non compatible board to see if it is just unpopulated parts or totally different circuitry.


Well you are right.. this is teh Serial number NOT the part number... any serial that match with SIN/COS motor have to end with 203 if i remember

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Re: ixxat USB-to-CAN compact & Sevcon DLD flashing

Postby methods » Sun May 28, 2017 11:41 am

Yes - we will make many mistakes as we work this out and show our work in real time.
Big difference between folks who figure it out then make a pretty post... vs working in real time :mrgreen:

I have in my possession both UVW and Sin/Cos controllers. Gen 4 size 4
Today we will find out once and for all if the hardware is identical, if they can be swapped, etc.

My plan is to first attempt to flash the UVW with DLD expecting Sin/Cos... if there are issues... I will open the UVW and compare it to the Sin/Cos at the PCB level.

Today I am also building Sevcon harnesses at the shop. We have one customer - low budget - and the rest goes to overhead expense.
I can make 10 harnesses at once that will take me an equal amount of time as building 2 at two different times...

Gah... how do I always get mixed up in this unprofitable work :mrgreen:
Only to payback the Master who spent so much time in training me.
I feel like I have peeled back most of the layers of the Sevcon... but we have a new riddle to solve.

EDS - and how that affects interpretation of the TDIO data coming out.
I have two controllers working on a Dyno. One reports good numbers and the other has significant offset.
Going to dig into that today as well.

I have many EDS going back years... sigh... complicated bunch of mess....

-methods
Honda
The current reasons I do not daily drive a pure EV:
* Lease mileage caps. I commute a minimum of 26,000 miles a year + weekends.
* I drive a minimum of 100 miles a day and can not trust that I can charge on location - so I need a 100+ mile range.
* I want to tinker... can I tinker on my Lease Car if I share the R&D?
* Weather - I need an enclosed vehicle. Motorcycle wont fly with a 5yo in the rain.
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Re: ixxat USB-to-CAN compact & Sevcon DLD flashing

Postby kiwifiat » Sun May 28, 2017 3:52 pm

Doctorbass wrote:
kiwifiat wrote:
methods wrote:Update:

* Confirmed -part number ending in 3 for SIN/COS.
EDIT
Doctorbass wrote:Also Are you sure the Sin/Cos and A/B sin/cos are only decoded by the last digit of the serial number?.. i tought it was the last 3.. like xxxxxxxx201 (A/B UVW) and xxxxxxxx203 (for the A/B UVW Sin/cos) ?


-methods


Just to throw a spanner in the works on sin/cos compatibility I have two gen4's that came direct from test vehicles used at Ashwoods Electric Motors in the UK that were fitted with heinzmann pms120's and Ashwoods own ELMO-S112, both motors are fitted with sin/cos encoders. The part number of the gen4's I have is 634A8320.

Doc, Methods says part number and you say serial number, is that what you ment to say?



Given that it is a hardware difference I wonder if it is not the hardware version number available from DVT that would be the most logical place to identify sin/cos compatibility. Anyway I intend to trace the sin/cos input pins on a compatible model and compare the circuitry compared to non compatible board to see if it is just unpopulated parts or totally different circuitry.


Well you are right.. this is teh Serial number NOT the part number... any serial that match with SIN/COS motor have to end with 203 if i remember

Doc


That is what I'm trying to get to the bottom of, I just checked the two gen4's running sin/cos encoder motors and they have serial numbers 1206100319 and 1206100150 both part numbers are 634A83210. Another ES member has a gen4 running a PMS120 with sin/cos encoderthat he has running, I will ask him to check his serial/part numbers.
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Re: ixxat USB-to-CAN compact & Sevcon DLD flashing

Postby methods » Tue May 30, 2017 10:42 am

Alright guys... now we are getting down to it. :D

I have samples of both SIN/COS and UVW sevcons sitting on the floor behind me.
They look hard to re-assemble... so as soon as I can try to flash the UVW with a SIN/COS DLD/DCF we will know if it can do it. If it fails - then I will open the UVW and compare it side by side with the SIN/COS.

Does anyone have pictures of a jig they use for pushing the Sevcon mosfet board back into the heat sink? I suspect I could just "do it" but dont want to get into a repair situation if I dont have to.

All are welcome!
Please come and participate!

I am excited to interact with some folks who have more experience that we do.

-methods
Honda
The current reasons I do not daily drive a pure EV:
* Lease mileage caps. I commute a minimum of 26,000 miles a year + weekends.
* I drive a minimum of 100 miles a day and can not trust that I can charge on location - so I need a 100+ mile range.
* I want to tinker... can I tinker on my Lease Car if I share the R&D?
* Weather - I need an enclosed vehicle. Motorcycle wont fly with a 5yo in the rain.
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Re: ixxat USB-to-CAN compact & Sevcon DLD flashing

Postby methods » Wed May 31, 2017 12:07 pm

Check it out... I fixed my first hardware problem:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=88473#p1290426

Welded Contactor Error identified.
Could have been worked around by switching to contactor 2 or 3... (which I asked customer to test...)
That is the best field fix IMHO.

Anyway - shorted mosfet found, super easy fix.

-methods
Honda
The current reasons I do not daily drive a pure EV:
* Lease mileage caps. I commute a minimum of 26,000 miles a year + weekends.
* I drive a minimum of 100 miles a day and can not trust that I can charge on location - so I need a 100+ mile range.
* I want to tinker... can I tinker on my Lease Car if I share the R&D?
* Weather - I need an enclosed vehicle. Motorcycle wont fly with a 5yo in the rain.
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Re: ixxat USB-to-CAN compact & Sevcon DLD flashing

Postby steveo » Wed May 31, 2017 8:51 pm

subscribed!
Repair Thread
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=27170
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Lightening rods bike ~ 18s2p 10ah/1500w Inrunner/Infinion EB312 IRFB4110/2KW~2.68hp/Est 60LBS
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Re: ixxat USB-to-CAN compact & Sevcon DLD flashing

Postby methods » Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:46 am

When I got home tonight I saw my napkin sketch and thought... "Maybe the fet is actually ok and the suppression diode is shorted"
(There is a really big diode strapping the fet tasked with taking the brunt)

I will probably nip the source leg, re-measure, then either lift the diode or swap the fet.
Customer is keen to get his bike going...

The fet heat sinks are covered in a crusty hard green goo... I am really hoping it will reflow at 60C so I dont have to scrape it all off :?

-methods
Honda
The current reasons I do not daily drive a pure EV:
* Lease mileage caps. I commute a minimum of 26,000 miles a year + weekends.
* I drive a minimum of 100 miles a day and can not trust that I can charge on location - so I need a 100+ mile range.
* I want to tinker... can I tinker on my Lease Car if I share the R&D?
* Weather - I need an enclosed vehicle. Motorcycle wont fly with a 5yo in the rain.
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Re: ixxat USB-to-CAN compact & Sevcon DLD flashing

Postby methods » Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:19 am

Valuable Information:

Key Word: Encoder, encoder calibration, Sin/Cos, encoder tuning

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=88647

I have been PM'ing with this user regarding Sevcon business.
He took the time to outline the encoder calibration process.

We do a lot of this bringing the Zero motors (75-7) online with our calibration station.
For the Sin Cos a lot of time is spent:

* Shimming the sensor distance from magnet to ensure we dont rail SIN or COS (amplitude adjustment)
* Adjusting left and right for symmetry of the two wave forms (centering over magnet)

I have not seen evidence yet... but there is some slop in the 75-7 motors, taken up with a spring bearing, and if that slop "moves" the calibration (which is on the order of thousandths) would be thrown off. In a side load motorcycle application this is no issue. In a boat, or plane, or other application we may get different results.

Our mechanical team built up one motor for a flight application which had zero tolerances and a much larger thrust bearing. We have that motor on the Dyno today... got it up to 40KW then lost our software connection. We are getting up into the Power and Noise levels where things matter - so my first order of business today is cleaning up CAN wiring, power wire routing, etc... to break 50KW.

thanks,
-Patrick
Honda
The current reasons I do not daily drive a pure EV:
* Lease mileage caps. I commute a minimum of 26,000 miles a year + weekends.
* I drive a minimum of 100 miles a day and can not trust that I can charge on location - so I need a 100+ mile range.
* I want to tinker... can I tinker on my Lease Car if I share the R&D?
* Weather - I need an enclosed vehicle. Motorcycle wont fly with a 5yo in the rain.
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Re: ixxat USB-to-CAN compact & Sevcon DLD flashing

Postby methods » Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:27 am

Note:

* We came into possession of some plug and play UVW encoder replacements so we will do some side by side testing to see how those affect power and low RPM performance.

* We handed off the Dual-Inline 75-7 to Henry... who has/will be testing it in his Electric Insight. The timing of the mechanical motor assembly was perfect... so one encoder should suffice for driving both sets of windings... and Henry is using a Curtis.

* I got news back from testing Arlo and another did RE: isolating and duplicating one encoder for two Sevcons. Results were positive... so we may investigate that route.

* We integrated a Sevcon Clear View yesterday... and although people have spoken poorly of it, I read in the fine print that "features" are locked and can be unlocked with a simple process. I believe most settings of interest will be exposed to users. Now... to bring the cost down. FYI these units can be found on Electric Golf carts.

* We finished the BOM and cut lists for our "shorty harness" - this is basically the harness one needs to build a vehicle around the Sevcon with minimum complexity. The last step is to integrate CA compliance and a good quality shunt for "real" DC Current measurements (Sevcon guesses at battery current).

* We have 1pcs dead ixxat and 1pcs "good" ixxat (the expensive units). Today we will peek inside and determine which component fails in those programmers.

Off to work

-methods
Honda
The current reasons I do not daily drive a pure EV:
* Lease mileage caps. I commute a minimum of 26,000 miles a year + weekends.
* I drive a minimum of 100 miles a day and can not trust that I can charge on location - so I need a 100+ mile range.
* I want to tinker... can I tinker on my Lease Car if I share the R&D?
* Weather - I need an enclosed vehicle. Motorcycle wont fly with a 5yo in the rain.
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Re: ixxat USB-to-CAN compact & Sevcon DLD flashing

Postby kiwifiat » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:25 pm

sincos_support.PNG
sincos_support.PNG (80.15 KiB) Viewed 140 times
Re sin/cos support: within the help menu of DVT Helper is "Help on Sin/Cos Encoder", clicking that brings up the option to "check to see if this unit supports sin/cos" and that quotes does/does not and gives a hardware version. So I think that possibly the hardware version is the ultimate decider on sin/cos support. I can also confirm that the Gen4's on sale on EBay from Korea do not support sin/cos, not that they claim to in any case.
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Re: ixxat USB-to-CAN compact & Sevcon DLD flashing

Postby methods » Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:42 am

Well... it seems that is the case.
We can always hold out hope tho :mrgreen:

I will still open up one of the UVW's to see if its a totally different board or just a non-pop on that section. Someone in contact with Sevcon assured me that there was only one version of the hardware. Hmmm... maybe before or after a production year this changed... as it would make little sense to produce and track two versions for only a few dollars in parts. Crossing fingers.

As for testing...
We have a dyno script running that **very smoothly** ramps up RPM for a given load. It will be very interesting to see how the UVW stacks up to the Sin/Cos in this test.

Speaking of the Dyno -
Today I re-wired the hacked-ass CAN wiring (it was first built from scrap harnesses on a shoe-string... and we are slowly cleaning it up) and was able to break 45kW. With my PC 4' away I would lose communications above apx 35kw. Now I have a 10' tether and a proper CAN topology so no glitches or noise what so ever. Works great.

1:1 loading
two pcs 75-7
Regenerative setup
4500 RPM
45KW

I will admit that it gets a bit scary regenerating that much load at higher RPM. I bet we see 70hp by the end of the week.
(I need to sneak up on the RPM as we are still qualifying motors that were wrapped using different processes...)

As of now... these early production motors would be KILLER in an application that does not require >6K rpm
We have units running 6000 and above - but I saw some failures early on - so I am being extra cautious.
We are very sensitive about the reliability - especially at high RPM.

Craig is baking the units in now, and I have confidence that he will perfect the method (he says he has it dialed... but I am the master of wrecking isht). Its interesting watching him work... he is good at converging on optimal solutions instead of just throwing margin at things. I guess thats why he makes killer light weight carbon fiber bikes eh?

As for projects... we picked up two more. One is a very interesting Motorcycle application.
(I only share details like this at the bottom of dusty nerd-threads) :wink:

-methods
Honda
The current reasons I do not daily drive a pure EV:
* Lease mileage caps. I commute a minimum of 26,000 miles a year + weekends.
* I drive a minimum of 100 miles a day and can not trust that I can charge on location - so I need a 100+ mile range.
* I want to tinker... can I tinker on my Lease Car if I share the R&D?
* Weather - I need an enclosed vehicle. Motorcycle wont fly with a 5yo in the rain.
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Re: ixxat USB-to-CAN compact & Sevcon DLD flashing

Postby methods » Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:27 am

A note on Sevcon:

Our Dealer POC had a very positive interaction with them this week where they were "bend-over-backward" helpful. You have to be a F^C&ING genius to operate their stuff... but they definitely support it over email (for Dealers).

After approaching their gear somewhat blind... I can see why they dont really even try to help the regular DIY guy. Its... basically impossible.

So... yea... Sevcon stuff is working (thanks to the Master - it would have taken me 1,000 years to master it alone)

thanks,
-Patrick
Honda
The current reasons I do not daily drive a pure EV:
* Lease mileage caps. I commute a minimum of 26,000 miles a year + weekends.
* I drive a minimum of 100 miles a day and can not trust that I can charge on location - so I need a 100+ mile range.
* I want to tinker... can I tinker on my Lease Car if I share the R&D?
* Weather - I need an enclosed vehicle. Motorcycle wont fly with a 5yo in the rain.
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