Anyway of making the R martins from china sold on Ali express road legal in U.S.

General Discussion about large electric scooters and motorcycles and other things with no pedals.
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Anyway of making the R martins from china sold on Ali express road legal in U.S.

Post by boytitan » Jan 16 2018 1:16am

I saw nothing but good review when their inferior bikes were sold in the U.S. so I was wondering if it would be possible to making them road legal since there is no longer a R martin dealer. For a electric vehicle the price to performance is the best i have ever seen. So this is a company with a proven track record which honestly just came to the U.S. much to early.

https://efun-ev.en.alibaba.com/product/ ... d34bK99mMx

You can't even find a 80v 80ah battery for 3k yet there are selling a entire bike at that price.

Also as you can see i live in nys so it is probably gonna be impossible.

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Re: Anyway of making the R martins from china sold on Ali express road legal in U.S.

Post by Dauntless » Jan 16 2018 2:11am

Not sure I understand why there'd be a problem. No gas, no EPA problem. Looks like it has the right lights. I should think you'd be okay. Nice looking for a scooter, not really my style.
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Re: Anyway of making the R martins from china sold on Ali express road legal in U.S.

Post by amberwolf » Jan 16 2018 2:12am

Anyway of making the R martins from china sold on Ali express road legal in U.S.
It (really, almost any ebike) already is road legal in Arizona--just operate it at less than 20MPH.


However, you'd probably be constantly harassed by the police about it, because it looks like a motorcycle, and I don't see any pedals on it. Even though those aren't required here, then as far as anyone looking at it is concerned, they'd consider it a motorcycle first, and stop you with probable cause. Whether or not they ticket you depends on how good you are at being really really nice and showing them your printouts of the laws that define ebikes here.

If they did ticket you, it'd probably be the big three (no license, no registration, no insurance), which is at least a four-digit-pricetag last I'd heard. You can argue it in court, and if you're lucky the judge will throw it out, but they might be upheld. Also, they might confiscate the bike and put it in the towing-lockup, which is a lot of money each day it's in there. Probably by the time court comes around and is completed, it'd cost more to get it out than to buy a new one. :(



For your state, county and city, you'd need to look at the specific definitions and requirements in the laws for each of those there, and see if the bike you want meets those. If not, then you'd have to alter it in whatever way was needed to do so.

If you're unlucky enough to live in one of the few places that doesnt' allow them at all, then there isn't any way to make any ebike legal, so you'd just have to do whatever you feel comfortable with.


Alternately, if you want to register the bike as a motorcycle or moped, you'd have to check what the requirements are for that in your state (usually the county/city doesn't get a say in those, unlike bicycles).

Most likely it'd have to have a manufacturer VIN and title; some places you might be able to apply for an experimental vehicle VIN, but you'd need to check that for your state.

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Re: Anyway of making the R martins from china sold on Ali express road legal in U.S.

Post by boytitan » Jan 16 2018 9:58am

amberwolf wrote:
Jan 16 2018 2:12am
Anyway of making the R martins from china sold on Ali express road legal in U.S.


Alternately, if you want to register the bike as a motorcycle or moped, you'd have to check what the requirements are for that in your state (usually the county/city doesn't get a say in those, unlike bicycles).

Most likely it'd have to have a manufacturer VIN and title; some places you might be able to apply for an experimental vehicle VIN, but you'd need to check that for your state.
That thing isn't a e bike and not designed for that market. Hell its almost highway capable or capable depending on how brave you are.Has a 75mph top speed Its a 200-250cc equivalent maxi scooter/motorcycle. Everywhere it should be considered a motorcycle using that as a e bike would just be foolish.

Was hoping someone who has purchased from Alibaba can comment if it comes with a vin that is the most important thing to making it road legal

Since they used to have a U.S. dealer that had them fully road legal everywhere shouldn't it be the same. Like they provide the V.I.N or does the dealer do that.

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Re: Anyway of making the R martins from china sold on Ali express road legal in U.S.

Post by mistercrash » Jan 16 2018 12:48pm

Your opinion on what this vehicle is meant to be doesn't really matter. Here is what I learned building a scooter looking E-bike into an electric equivalent of a 200/300cc motorcycle. (performance wise) It all depends on the way the vehicle is imported into the country. Mine was imported as a bicycle into Canada so this means it has no title and can never be licensed and insured as a motorcycle. Is that vehicle you are looking at imported to the USA as a DOT approved motorcycle and does it come with a title? If not, it will be an e-bike and will have to follow any e-bike laws and regulations of your State, no matter how big and fast it is.
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Re: Anyway of making the R martins from china sold on Ali express road legal in U.S.

Post by boytitan » Jan 16 2018 11:33pm

mistercrash wrote:
Jan 16 2018 12:48pm
Your opinion on what this vehicle is meant to be doesn't really matter. Here is what I learned building a scooter looking E-bike into an electric equivalent of a 200/300cc motorcycle. (performance wise) It all depends on the way the vehicle is imported into the country. Mine was imported as a bicycle into Canada so this means it has no title and can never be licensed and insured as a motorcycle. Is that vehicle you are looking at imported to the USA as a DOT approved motorcycle and does it come with a title? If not, it will be an e-bike and will have to follow any e-bike laws and regulations of your State, no matter how big and fast it is.
The fact you get don't get the vehicle confiscated by police is absurd.

Anyways I just contacted them on Aliexpress. Probably should have asked about this on the electric motorcycle forum instead of here.

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Re: Anyway of making the R martins from china sold on Ali express road legal in U.S.

Post by John in CR » Jan 17 2018 2:14am

Not sure why you're calling it an R Martin, but what makes you think there'd be a problem. I'm sure there will be red tape paperwork hoops to jump through, but EFun scooters have been sold in the US and operated as plated motor vehicles for over a decade. In fact, the picture of then CA governor Arnold posing with several people and some electric scooters was with Amoyee Chen, the gentleman listed in the contact info on the Alibaba listing you linked.

FWIW, those scooters are running QS 273x50 motors with a built on 13" scooter rim.

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Re: Anyway of making the R martins from china sold on Ali express road legal in U.S.

Post by boytitan » Jan 17 2018 8:11pm

John in CR wrote:
Jan 17 2018 2:14am
Not sure why you're calling it an R Martin, but what makes you think there'd be a problem. I'm sure there will be red tape paperwork hoops to jump through, but EFun scooters have been sold in the US and operated as plated motor vehicles for over a decade. In fact, the picture of then CA governor Arnold posing with several people and some electric scooters was with Amoyee Chen, the gentleman listed in the contact info on the Alibaba listing you linked.

FWIW, those scooters are running QS 273x50 motors with a built on 13" scooter rim.
Because they were sold in the U.S. as fully road legal D.O.T vehicles by R Martin its actually how I found out about them. I looked up threads about the R martin after someone posted a used one they just bought. Then I found their Chinese name and looked that up. Don't get why there are no U.S. available electric maxi scooters or medium powered motorcycles. Its not a case of there being no market for 150-250 cc class vehicles because the Honda grom, Modified 125cc Honda Ruckus, 250 cc CSC cyclone all sell well.

Anyways only their 9000watt bike is road legal in the U.S. ... which is 4000 bucks. Might as well just get a used zero at that price.

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Re: Anyway of making the R martins from china sold on Ali express road legal in U.S.

Post by John in CR » Jan 18 2018 7:37am

Where can I get a used Zero for $4k? I'd hit the buy button on that in a heartbeat.

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Re: Anyway of making the R martins from china sold on Ali express road legal in U.S.

Post by John in CR » Jan 18 2018 7:49am

boytitan wrote:
Jan 17 2018 8:11pm
Don't get why there are no U.S. available electric maxi scooters or medium powered motorcycles.
2 reasons:

Too much anti-electric brain washing has gone on.

and, while they're made by the millions with hubmotors in China, the performance has to be dialed way down. That's because with the bigger weights you've got to match the controller settings with the load. A heavy scooter + a fat rider + hills = burned up controllers and motors.

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Re: Anyway of making the R martins from china sold on Ali express road legal in U.S.

Post by boytitan » Jan 18 2018 11:25am

John in CR wrote:
Jan 18 2018 7:37am
Where can I get a used Zero for $4k? I'd hit the buy button on that in a heartbeat.
Ok 7k...still.

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Re: Anyway of making the R martins from china sold on Ali express road legal in U.S.

Post by John in CR » Jan 18 2018 10:16pm

Damn, you had me excited. If I could get a Zero that cheap, my builds could become something to just tinker with for fun and very extreme performance.

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Re: Anyway of making the R martins from china sold on Ali express road legal in U.S.

Post by ScooterMan101 » Jan 19 2018 11:47am

There was a Zero for sale on the San Francisco Bay Area, Craigslist a couple of weeks ago for $ 4k or even a little less. It was around the 2010 year model I think.
Anyway it is now gone from the listings.

Keep your eye on SF Bay Craigslist Motorcycle section .



John in CR wrote:
Jan 18 2018 10:16pm
Damn, you had me excited. If I could get a Zero that cheap, my builds could become something to just tinker with for fun and very extreme performance.
My first conversion ...

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

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Re: Anyway of making the R martins from china sold on Ali express road legal in U.S.

Post by ScooterMan101 » Jan 19 2018 12:00pm

If you want a scooter that can be legal for the Road, you might have to find a used one with a plate on it.
For Example
A few years ago there were a number of people here in California who thought they would make a ton of money by importing those type of scooters, the mark up was so high that they thought it was a sound business model.
The reality of High Retail Shop Space , High California State + Local Business Taxes, and the fact that most every Scooter from China, either gas or electric had many QC problems, The scooters just died/quit working for a number of reasons, so new customers just never came to buy after a couple of years and the places that sold them are now out of business.
But there are people who are trying to find someone to buy the non running one they have sitting in the Garage.
The places that did sell them sold them as ... Moped's , and here in California there is registration and a license plate that came along with them, Usually a one time fee of around $ 40 or so.
And there that plate is good for the life of the Moped, unlike Motorcycles that have to pay a yearly registration fee that might have expired when the M.C. stops working and is just sitting in the Garage .

That probably happened / this is probably the case in N.Y. as well. ?

One very big problem I found with the one I test rode , and it was the biggest / fastest / most expensive one at that shop, was the brakes were very bad. So if you do get one of the ones from around 5 years ago or so plan on not only replacing the battery pack, the controller, but also the brakes as well.

Once something has existing Reg. in your state you can buy it used , just go to the Local DMV and pay the fees and put it into your name.

So if any of those new ones are not capable of being Registered , just buy a used one and make the improvements to get it up to speed.

boytitan wrote:
Jan 16 2018 1:16am
I saw nothing but good review when their inferior bikes were sold in the U.S. so I was wondering if it would be possible to making them road legal since there is no longer a R martin dealer. For a electric vehicle the price to performance is the best i have ever seen. So this is a company with a proven track record which honestly just came to the U.S. much to early.

https://efun-ev.en.alibaba.com/product/ ... d34bK99mMx

You can't even find a 80v 80ah battery for 3k yet there are selling a entire bike at that price.

Also as you can see i live in nys so it is probably gonna be impossible.
My first conversion ...

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

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Re: Anyway of making the R martins from china sold on Ali express road legal in U.S.

Post by Dauntless » Jan 20 2018 11:17pm

ScooterMan101 wrote:
Jan 19 2018 12:00pm
But there are people who are trying to find someone to buy the non running one they have sitting in the Garage.
The places that did sell them sold them as ... Moped's , and here in California there is registration and a license plate that came along with them, Usually a one time fee of around $ 40 or so.
Now I'm getting all excited hearing that. Its SUPPOSED to be true, but it can be ridiculous what they want for that mess when you do occasionally find one.
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Re: Anyway of making the R martins from china sold on Ali express road legal in U.S.

Post by coleasterling » Jan 22 2018 1:32pm

It doesn't really matter if the a company imported the bike legally originally or not. If it doesn't have a 17 digit VIN from a company currently registered with NHTSA and EPA (Yes, EPA compliance is necessary.), then you won't be legally registering in the US per federal regs. EPA is about $1800 a year, so if you could get them to spend that and re-up their registration documents, then it could be reasonable if you brought over 5-10 bikes.

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Re: Anyway of making the R martins from china sold on Ali express road legal in U.S.

Post by amberwolf » Jan 22 2018 8:26pm

Does that mean that if an existing car manufacturer went belly up (or perhaps was bought out and taken over in such a way they no longer exist), or that company somehow loses it's EPA registration/licensing, that suddenly all the vehicles on the roads made by them are no longer registerable?

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Re: Anyway of making the R martins from china sold on Ali express road legal in U.S.

Post by Dauntless » Jan 22 2018 10:04pm

amberwolf wrote:
Jan 22 2018 8:26pm
Does that mean that if an existing car manufacturer went belly up (or perhaps was bought out and taken over in such a way they no longer exist), or that company somehow loses it's EPA registration/licensing, that suddenly all the vehicles on the roads made by them are no longer registerable?
Not literally the way you put it, but suppose you were Bill Gates and you bought a Porsche that's not imported to the U.S. and therefore not EPA approved. So you park it in nearby Canada. But you think you're gonna get away with bringing it home with the Canadian plates and no one will be the wiser. Gates got his back 13 years later when Porsche did decide they wanted to bring that model here.

I think he's referring to the NAME on the bike is not the same name as the version that was being registered. He said "Inferior version," this very one was not being registered. More like the Gates Porsche.

You can get a 17 digit vin issued. People build their own from the ground up and get them registered, afterall. If it's electric there is no smog worries. I don't think you face any uphill climb if you have the lights, etc. But bureaucracy is never easy. If you are somewhere where they do have an attitude about electrics, there's always that to worry about.
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Re: Anyway of making the R martins from china sold on Ali express road legal in U.S.

Post by MrDude_1 » Jan 22 2018 11:39pm

Ignoring the fact there are countries other than the USA.... Just in the USA there are 50 states, and all of them individually have their own different laws for classifying and registering vehicles.
so no matter what you say... theres probably a state where you're wrong. :lol:
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Re: Anyway of making the R martins from china sold on Ali express road legal in U.S.

Post by coleasterling » Jan 23 2018 1:19am

No, it isn't retroactive like that. There are plenty of vehicles legally on the road from now defunct brands. It does mean that no matter how similar your vehicle is to one that used to be manufactured, if it is a complete vehicle and not a kit, it can't be imported unless the current manufacturer is currently registered and compliant. There is the 25 year exemption, but we're nowhere close to getting that with electric vehicles.

This is federal, not state law. It doesn't matter what the individual states say despite whatever loopholes you may find. Bringing a complete non-compliant vehicle into the US is very illegal. The thread title is specifically about US law, sooooo...

Now, you CAN import parts that could be used to build a legal bike as a kit. You just need to make sure that all of the FMVSS regulated parts are compliant. For items like lights, that can be really difficult.

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Re: Anyway of making the R martins from china sold on Ali express road legal in U.S.

Post by MrDude_1 » Jan 23 2018 12:22pm

The act of importing them for road use is federal.
The act of registering, titling and how you may drive them on the road is state.

so its a mess.
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Re: Anyway of making the R martins from china sold on Ali express road legal in U.S.

Post by coleasterling » Jan 23 2018 12:42pm

Individual states do handle registration, but highway legal status of a vehicle is determined by the feds first. After that, states can decide to be more strict, but not less so. In this case, you could get one or maybe even a few into the states and registered, but they wouldn't technically be legal. You'd also risk getting them confiscated and destroyed in port.

Edit: little snippy, sorry.

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Re: Anyway of making the R martins from china sold on Ali express road legal in U.S.

Post by Dauntless » Jan 23 2018 3:46pm

MrDude_1 wrote:
Jan 22 2018 11:39pm
Ignoring the fact there are countries other than the USA.
How is anything ignored?
MrDude_1 wrote:
Jan 22 2018 11:39pm
o no matter what you say... theres probably a state where you're wrong. :lol:
Actually, YOU are wrong, the question is why did you bother insisting on putting your foot in your mouth? Just another example of what I was saying about dealing with bad attitudes. I said "Bureaucracy is never easy." It WILL be as I said in every state. Oops.
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Re: Anyway of making the R martins from china sold on Ali express road legal in U.S.

Post by ElectricGod » Jan 26 2018 6:37pm

It looks like it's running a QSmotor.

This is really zoomed in on the motor.

Image

It sure looks like this QSmotor...

http://i1055.photobucket.com/albums/s51 ... Smotor.png

Image

I think all you need is to get it insured and registered in the USA for tags and you are good to go.
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