regen braking and engine braking?

General Discussion about large electric scooters and motorcycles and other things with no pedals.
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spectastic   1 mW

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regen braking and engine braking?

Post by spectastic » Jun 17 2018 12:24am

one thing about my gas motorcycle is that i can use my throttle to slow down around corners. I don't think you can really do this on an electric motorcycle, unless you have regen braking. So for those with electric bikes, is going around corners harder, because you have to pay a lot more attention to your entry speed?

on the note of regen braking, how easy is it to implement? and how much energy does it actually save in city traffic? I've read that in most cases, it's not even worth it.

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eee291   10 kW

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Re: regen braking and engine braking?

Post by eee291 » Jun 17 2018 3:36am

On average I can recuperate about 5% with regen, but what I really like about the regen, is that I don't have to change my brake pads. I bought my scooter new in 2012 and all I had to do is change the brake fluid every 2 years or so.

So when I prepare to go into a corner, I just slightly squeeze the brake lever and I let the regen brake slow me down.

I can also set my regen to turn on just from letting go of the throttle, but I like coasting at high speeds so I generally have that turned off.

81forest   100 W

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Re: regen braking and engine braking?

Post by 81forest » Jun 18 2018 4:44pm

I honestly think regen should be turned up to maximum for the reason the OP described: engine braking as a cornering technique. Every motorcyclist uses this, it’s crucial to getting the suspension settled in properly in a corner.

I test rode a Zero FX prototype on a supermoto track that had a nice regen on deceleration; I could tap the rear brake and cause the rear tire to “back in” to the corner entry, just like on my Ktm 450. I think every electric motorcycle should be designed with a lot of regen drag, but maybe with the option of a “clutch”...

flat tire   10 kW

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Re: regen braking and engine braking?

Post by flat tire » Jun 18 2018 5:08pm

Regen won't save you very much energy unless all your driving is stop 'n' go or your ride is mostly downhill. To control the bike by slowing the rear wheel you can use the rear brake...see below.
81forest wrote:
Jun 18 2018 4:44pm
I honestly think regen should be turned up to maximum for the reason the OP described: engine braking as a cornering technique. Every motorcyclist uses this, it’s crucial to getting the suspension settled in properly in a corner.
Well, no. Not at all. Tons of motorcyclists who RACE don't use engine braking. It's up to rider style, and not all bikes even offer engine braking, like many 2 strokes.

phate   10 W

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Re: regen braking and engine braking?

Post by phate » Jun 19 2018 2:12am

I'm most likely going to set up the regen braking on my motorcycle to be active below a certain throttle position, and adjust the strength to feel like engine braking in third gear on my friend's 600. Might add a bit more if I find myself using the actual brakes more than I'd like. I figure if I want to just coast, I'll hold the throttle open a bit more.

My commute takes me down and back up a few hundred feet of elevation (I down a valley, across a river, back up the other side), so regen should help a good bit.

81forest   100 W

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Re: regen braking and engine braking?

Post by 81forest » Jun 19 2018 11:35am

flat tire wrote:
Jun 18 2018 5:08pm

Well, no. Not at all. Tons of motorcyclists who RACE don't use engine braking. It's up to rider style, and not all bikes even offer engine braking, like many 2 strokes.
True, true. I just personally could not imagine street riding without engine braking. OTOH, my trail bike is a two stroke and I love that it has almost no engine braking at all. But on a track, there is just something special about banging down from filth gear into second as you enter the turn, the slipper clutch feeding in the right input as the tire steps out. :twisted:

spectastic   1 mW

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Re: regen braking and engine braking?

Post by spectastic » Jun 19 2018 4:29pm

5% for regen seems pretty shitty. what does your distribution look like for highway/street miles? i think i read somewhere that you want to limit the regen to something like 15-20%, so the motor doesn't overheat. otoh, i can totally see how having a bike that coasts can be a pretty neat thing. when I'm on the bike for an extended period of time and the hand is applying constant pressure on the throttle, it can get a little tiring.

billvon   10 MW

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Re: regen braking and engine braking?

Post by billvon » Jun 19 2018 4:46pm

spectastic wrote:
Jun 19 2018 4:29pm
On average I can recuperate about 5% with regen
5% for regen seems pretty shitty. what does your distribution look like for highway/street miles? i think i read somewhere that you want to limit the regen to something like 15-20%, so the motor doesn't overheat.
5% ENERGY overall recovered. Some independent tests (i.e. Justin's) have shown a similar result. You get that 5% with aggressive regen.
--bill von

atarijedi   100 W

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Re: regen braking and engine braking?

Post by atarijedi » Jul 01 2018 3:16pm

spectastic wrote:
Jun 17 2018 12:24am
one thing about my gas motorcycle is that i can use my throttle to slow down around corners. I don't think you can really do this on an electric motorcycle, unless you have regen braking. So for those with electric bikes, is going around corners harder, because you have to pay a lot more attention to your entry speed?

on the note of regen braking, how easy is it to implement? and how much energy does it actually save in city traffic? I've read that in most cases, it's not even worth it.
The Sabvoton controllers, at least the newish ones, have both a motor kill brake input (so the motor loses power and spins freely/cogs) when you apply power to the input. But it also has an analog brake regen input. So you could put a thumb throttle on your handlebars and apply as much or as little regen as you want.

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