High power BLD controller with BMS integration - Any suggestions?

General Discussion about large electric scooters and motorcycles and other things with no pedals.
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TilmanBaumann   10 W

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High power BLD controller with BMS integration - Any suggestions?

Post by TilmanBaumann » Jul 05 2018 11:41am

I'm considering upgrading my 72V 8.5kW (brushed DC) electric scooter with one of the higher power GoldenMotor. (15kW or even 20kW)

People usually use the GoldenMotor controllers with that. But I find them a little primitive. Or rather quite hard to find any details on features.
Since I'm right now considering using the Orion BMS I would really like a motor controller that plays well with that. (Intelligent power back-off when the BMS isn't happy and such)
Also, I really like to have CAN bus support.
Orion has good integration with Curtis controllers. But they are a bit chunky for a scooter and considerably more expensive than the Chinese controllers usually used with those motors.

Another consideration is that I really like to use a display unit like the http://ai-hmi.com/#products IntelliGauge. Which has built in support for Orion and Curtis. But I'm pretty sure I could make it understand any kind of CAN message ifI had to.

What are you guys experience with high-ish powered electric motorbike controllers? Which are the good and the bad?
Especially with regards to more advanced features and CAN integration.
Like for example if I could add an interlock where the BMS can switch it off during charging without having to rely on heavy-duty contactors. In that case, I could design the whole thing with a single shut off contactor instead of one for the charger and one for the load
Most lower end BLDC just come on when there is power on the high power inputs.

I like fully built out complex solutions. And I'm not building some low power electric bicycle here. I like to have it proper.

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: High power BLD controller with BMS integration - Any suggestions?

Post by fechter » Jul 05 2018 12:36pm

You might look at ASI: The BAC 8000 can apparently handle a lot more than 8kW for bursts and there are a few members here familiar with the programming.
http://accelerated-systems.com/products/

Kelly is another one: 2kA peak is a lot.
http://kellycontroller.com/High-Voltage-Controller.php

Sevcon is another one, but notoriously difficult to program and set the parameters.

I don't think any of these are going to be plug and play with a BMS but designing an interface should not be that difficult. In most cases, all you really need is a way to kill or limit the throttle when the BMS trips.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

TilmanBaumann   10 W

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Re: High power BLD controller with BMS integration - Any suggestions?

Post by TilmanBaumann » Jul 05 2018 1:35pm

True, it is very hard to walk past the Kelly controllers, they have a good reputation and very good price.
I think KLS-H would fit well. And has optional CAN support.

But suffer from a very distinct lack of any advanced features.
But you are right, limiting the throttle is pretty easy by driving the high wiper contact via the BMS.

PS: Oh wow. Sevcon are completely deluded. They want my email address before I can read the datasheet. Which turns out to be just a two-page product brochure without any details. I don't know who I have to blow to get product information, but it's not going to happen.
They can totally suck my ***. :lol:

phate   10 W

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Re: High power BLD controller with BMS integration - Any suggestions?

Post by phate » Jul 05 2018 3:39pm

The APT controllers look like a decent option, and it looks like they have CANBUS capability to talk to all sorts of things.

http://www.cnqsmotor.com/en/article_rea ... r/332.html

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: High power BLD controller with BMS integration - Any suggestions?

Post by fechter » Jul 06 2018 7:59am

phate wrote:
Jul 05 2018 3:39pm
The APT controllers look like a decent option, and it looks like they have CANBUS capability to talk to all sorts of things.

http://www.cnqsmotor.com/en/article_rea ... r/332.html
I haven't seen those before. The specs don't look too bad but it may be challenging to get full support for the data communications. I noticed they recommended against blankets:
Assemble advise: Air Flow, No blanket
Got to love Google translate...


I just saw a used Kelly for sale by a member:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=94250

Another one to check out is Sabvoton. They now have a model with CAN.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

TilmanBaumann   10 W

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Re: High power BLD controller with BMS integration - Any suggestions?

Post by TilmanBaumann » Jul 13 2018 9:05am

I will probably just have to get used to using the analogue feedback. What should always work is to progressively limit the throttle. :D

TilmanBaumann   10 W

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Re: High power BLD controller with BMS integration - Any suggestions?

Post by TilmanBaumann » Aug 05 2018 6:50am

Programmability seems to be the next hurdle.

Honestly, I was nearly going to buy a curtis controller. But are they for real? The PC programming suite costs 500 quid? I men that is just a piece of custom software and a serial adapter right?
If that is true I go Chinese no question.

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