Yamaha and Gogoro work on battery swapping

General Discussion about large electric scooters and motorcycles and other things with no pedals.
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LockH   100 GW

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Yamaha and Gogoro work on battery swapping

Post by LockH » Sep 11 2018 10:03am

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(Wiki:)
Electrek is a US based news website dedicated to electric transportation and sustainable energy. Its main authors have disclosed ownership of Tesla stock and Tesla cars and Electrek is known for its extensive, positive coverage of Tesla and electric transportation in general.
(ie heavy on the electric cars content...)

Yamaha and Gogoro join forces to build new battery-swapping electric scooters:
https://electrek.co/2018/09/11/yamaha-g ... -scooters/

Starts:
Yamaha and Gogoro have both proven to be powerful forces in the light electric vehicle industry. Gogoro has a line of highly successful scooters based on their battery-swapping technology, and Yamaha just rolled their four latest electric bicycle models into shops in the US.

Now the two companies have announced that they will be joining forces on swappable-battery electric scooters, leveraging the strengths of both players.

The two companies made the joint announcement today, detailing a study they are undertaking towards initial collaboration in the EV market in Taiwan, where electric scooter sales have skyrocketed.
Includes:
Gogoro currently has around 750 battery swap stations in Taiwan for their existing electric scooters. Riders can simply pull up to a station, remove a fresh battery from the station and replace their existing battery. The batteries are small enough to handle easily, and scooters can use more than one battery to increase range and reduce the frequency of battery swap stops.

The scooters and their swappable batteries have been wildly successful in the densely populated Taiwanese market. Over the last three years, Gogoro has facilitated over 17 million battery swaps at their stations.
W/a pic:
Image

Man. `Been babbling on and on about battery swapping for years, as the "quickest way to recharge" that I know... so great to see folks working on this. `Cept it's maybe tied to one scooter manufacturer? While I've been thinking more of a "generic"/"standard" bottle-shaped battery as many bikes already use and could add a electric cable/wiring with a few "generic types of connectors" (nEVer done any study of any markets to see "what's out there" in battery connectors...) and a bag to carry the battery in and strap to "any" bike. :wink:
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dustNbone   10 kW

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Re: Yamaha and Gogoro work on battery swapping

Post by dustNbone » Sep 11 2018 1:09pm

I could see this working very well in some markets. I lived in Indonesia for a year and the roads are basically dominated by 100cc step thrus, about evenly split between Yamaha and Honda.

They don't have gas stations on every major intersection like we do, they tend to be between towns, so one large filling station that serves several towns. It's like they don't think gas stations and people should be in the same place. Some weird backwards thought there.

They do however have an insane number of motorcycle service centers, you can look around anywhere in a populated area and see a Honda and/or Yamaha sign.

Just street view any city there and you'll see what I mean. Millions of little bikes, moving slowly through stop and go city traffic, rarely leaving their home city. Those little step thrus have gas tanks a bit over a gallon, very easy to replicate that range with a battery, especially in that environment.

If you could get that network of service centers rigged up for battery swapping, you could eliminate the need to travel out of town to get fuel, and get a ton of really inefficient small engines off the road. The effect on air quality in those cities would be almost immediate.

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Re: Yamaha and Gogoro work on battery swapping

Post by LockH » Sep 11 2018 2:57pm

Hi Vancouver... Amusing to read about bike-shares trailering their bikes around to "rebalance" their territories. With "Battery Swap Stations" - think like old rural mail box stands w/multiple mail boxes for multiple addresses. Then, to get a "freshie"/"full" battery, just need to feed a "tired"/discharged battery in. So users do their own "territory battery rebalancing"? :wink: AM tending towards some "standard" battery that fits on a bag w/wiring harness w/multiple plus for the "controller end of the equation".

:)
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Re: Yamaha and Gogoro work on battery swapping

Post by flippy » Sep 12 2018 10:41am

they tried this exact system in amsterdam and failed miserably. the stands are 1000% identical, just the scooter brand changes every time i see this.
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Re: Yamaha and Gogoro work on battery swapping

Post by LockH » Sep 12 2018 1:01pm

^^ "failed miserably"... Reasons? (EG, dealing with the pubic...?)
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Re: Yamaha and Gogoro work on battery swapping

Post by flippy » Sep 12 2018 3:06pm

LockH wrote:
Sep 12 2018 1:01pm
^^ "failed miserably"... Reasons? (EG, dealing with the pubic...?)
they make you buy the scooter but you rent the batteries. so each month you have to pay and if you dont you cant get new batteries and you can only charge them on these stands wich means you are stuck with a scooter you cant use. wich also means you have to go to a store where they have these stands and are limited to opnening hours of that store (usually a supermarket) and you have to pay so much that it does not make any economic sense and it would be cheaper to just get a petrol scooter. so ayour acutal usable range is shit because you have to drive to the store to swap batteries every time.

there is not a single good reason why someone would use this system over a fully owned scooter.
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Re: Yamaha and Gogoro work on battery swapping

Post by LockH » Sep 12 2018 3:22pm

^^ NEVer had "range anxiety"? Plus, those scooters look hard to pedal (when "things go wrong"... as happens from time to time...) Yah. Odd about that "renting" angle... OTOH... There are ebike sellers out there now that're renting the whole bike, rather than paying 100 percent "up front". Pretty common financing arrangement in business... :wink:
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Re: Yamaha and Gogoro work on battery swapping

Post by billvon » Sep 12 2018 3:39pm

So the batteries are apparently 12S (50.4 volts charge) each - does anyone know what the AH rating is of these things? It would be nice to see a standard form factor for mid-energy batteries.
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Re: Yamaha and Gogoro work on battery swapping

Post by LockH » Sep 12 2018 4:33pm

Don't see Ah size off hand... but, from February this year:

Proposal to standardize Gogoro’s swappable battery tech:
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/lang/ar ... 2003687118

Starts:
The Ministry of Economic Affairs’ Industrial Development Bureau is planning to use Gogoro Inc’s battery specification as a universal standard for electric scooters with swappable batteries. However, the plan has sparked a dispute with rival manufacturers. Gogoro CEO Horace Luke last week announced the company would open up its battery control units for purchase by other electric scooter makers and would also waive all licensing fees. Luke says he hopes the move would allow other electric scooter manufacturers to form a “Team Taiwan” that can take on the global market. Gogoro started selling its electric scooters two and a half years ago and in doing so opened up the domestic market for electric scooters with swappable batteries. There are currently 500 battery-swapping stations nationwide which have handled 9 million battery swaps to date. On average, customers carry out 30,000 battery swaps every day.
:)
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Re: Yamaha and Gogoro work on battery swapping

Post by LockH » Sep 12 2018 4:47pm

Hehe... This is fun (usually scanning the web for news re electric BICYCLES... not SCOOTERS...)

From April this year... Sun Mobility reveals battery swap solution for EVs:
https://www.autocarindia.com/car-news/s ... evs-408067

Starts:
What stops nearly every customer from buying an EV? The answers to that are range anxiety, the unbearable charge times and the high price. But that is a problem Sun Mobility aims to tackle with its 'Interoperable Smart Mobility Solution', under which it takes buying or leasing the expensive battery out of the equation, and provides batteries of its own - which can be swapped - on a pay-per-use basis.
Intended for the electric two- and thrre-wheeler space, this is the brainchild of Chetan Maini, the father of the Reva, and it's a pretty promising solution. As part of this plan, Sun Mobility will set up Quick Interchange Stations, which one can ride into, swipe a card, have their nearly depleted battery swapped for a fully charged one, and ride out. The whole process is seamless and takes under 3 minutes, which is about the same time you'd spend at a fuel station.

If this sounds familiar, it is - a company named Gogoro makes smart scooters and provides similar modular, swappable batteries. The difference here is that Sun's stations will offer batteries for different type of vehicles. Just like Gogoro, Sun Mobility intends to offer time- and usage-based subscription packages, details of which are being worked out. It's still too early to estimate how much these subscriptions would cost, but Maini insists that if you account for the lower acquisition cost of an EV without the batteries, it would turn out to be cheaper than running a petrol or diesel-powered vehicle.

Since these are modular battery packs - each unit is compact and weighs 13kg - one could fit as many units as warranted by their usage - from one to three batteries. Each battery has a capacity of 1.5kWh, and as for range, on a scooter, it can go anywhere between 60-65 kilometres, and a three-wheeler can do about 35-38 kilometres. Adding more battery packs will subsequently double/triple output and range. Sun Mobility is also working on the same technology for cars, but Maini said that would take a little more time and work.
... w/a pic:
Image

:)
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(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
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Re: Yamaha and Gogoro work on battery swapping

Post by Scottydog » Sep 18 2018 1:15pm

Pretty cool that they are teaming up, do wonder if other brands such as SYM, Kymco and Honda will partner as Kymco have their own battery swap format.

Where I live not sure the swappable system makes sense unless they were rentals. I'm pretty much the only person running an electric scooter (a home build) and swappable isn't something I'd want. However charging spots in different locations would be nice and it's come about because if the Twizy rentals. Means now I have charging spots all over to use which is pretty sweet! :D
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