Duyunov wheel-hub motor

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macribs   1 GW

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Re: Duyunov wheel-hub motor

Post by macribs » Aug 14 2018 11:46am

Max peak output from controller = 72v x 350 A = 25 2000 w. Minus losses in both controller and motor.
Anyway it seems peak output watts for a few second should be around 20 kw. Unless saturation occur before that. Which I doubt. IIRC there was a QS 205 with an unlocked adaptto peaking at 16 kw. Of course only for a few seconds but the power was there. I don't know how this asynchronous motor without magnet reacts when power is flooding in, does motor saturate? Surely there are no magnets to de-magnetize or damage. Anything else that might turn into plasma? Will winding take and handle 20 kw without meltdown?

Mind you for e-bikes 3-4 seconds of wide open throttle have propelled you to maximum speed already with this kind of motor. Unless my math is seriously wrong the peak power should be 20+kw for a few seconds for this asynchronous motor.

skazburg   10 mW

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Re: Duyunov wheel-hub motor

Post by skazburg » Aug 15 2018 12:36am

d7500
Rated output 7.5W (I think an error, need to write 7.5kW)
Max output 10,000W
DA-90S
Rated power 3 kW
Maximum in peak to 20 seconds 9,4 kW
Is it possible to compare them?

skazburg   10 mW

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Re: Duyunov wheel-hub motor

Post by skazburg » Aug 15 2018 12:47am

macribs wrote:
Aug 14 2018 11:46am
Max peak output from controller = 72v x 350 A = 25 2000 w. Minus losses in both controller and motor.
Anyway it seems peak output watts for a few second should be around 20 kw. Unless saturation occur before that. Which I doubt. IIRC there was a QS 205 with an unlocked adaptto peaking at 16 kw. Of course only for a few seconds but the power was there. I don't know how this asynchronous motor without magnet reacts when power is flooding in, does motor saturate? Surely there are no magnets to de-magnetize or damage. Anything else that might turn into plasma? Will winding take and handle 20 kw without meltdown?

Mind you for e-bikes 3-4 seconds of wide open throttle have propelled you to maximum speed already with this kind of motor. Unless my math is seriously wrong the peak power should be 20+kw for a few seconds for this asynchronous motor.
I will answer a little later

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parabellum   10 MW

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Re: Duyunov wheel-hub motor

Post by parabellum » Aug 15 2018 9:13am

skazburg wrote:
Aug 15 2018 12:36am
d7500
Rated output 7.5W (I think an error, need to write 7.5kW)
Max output 10,000W
DA-90S
Rated power 3 kW
Maximum in peak to 20 seconds 9,4 kW
Is it possible to compare them?
That is why I am asking, those are 2 motors, offered by same supplier, with similar dimensions, same mounting topology, for same application purposes.
Main question is:
What could motivate a potential buyer to chose DA-90S with all this new technology inside if it is inferior in every aspect (even weight) to the old, "technologically outdated" d7500?

skazburg   10 mW

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Re: Duyunov wheel-hub motor

Post by skazburg » Aug 16 2018 12:39am

I will clarify, but for now I will say.
He loses by long-term power.
It overheats when the weather is warm.
Also remember all the problems of magnets.
Fragile magnets, magnetic dust, collection of metal chips, power decreases with time, etc.
There is no free rolling.

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macribs   1 GW

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Re: Duyunov wheel-hub motor

Post by macribs » Aug 16 2018 4:36am

So basically you say your motor does not have higher max output power then the original motor but will take heat a lot better because the lack of magnets in the asyncrous motor, did I get it correct?

skazburg   10 mW

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Re: Duyunov wheel-hub motor

Post by skazburg » Aug 18 2018 1:29am

Ask yourself a question
Why does Denzel start producing electric motors using our technology, if their motors are not worse?

Now the news.
We brought to our laboratory two electric motors using BLDS technology.
First
QS72V2000W 15.7kg/12.3kg
Second
QS48V800W 11kg/8kg
In this video you can see the data on the rim of the wheel
https://youtu.be/6AJtvGOYHUs
These electric motors we compare with our wheel-hub motor 318 diameter. (Hanging on the wall)
20000W 20kg
Wait for details

DA90S you can buy and compare it with any other electric motor.
Maybe we will also make a public comparison someday.
We are sure without comparison that for the sum of factors our electric motor is better.

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macribs   1 GW

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Re: Duyunov wheel-hub motor

Post by macribs » Aug 18 2018 4:36am

This thread is going from strange to worse. You don't answer direct questions, you will not state short burst peak power and you got nothing solid to show. And then you tell people to buy from so they can test for them self?

To be honest for a manufacturer the biggest reason to use this kind of motor tech would probably be due to the lack of rear earth magnets. Reducing manufacturing costs, possible shorter assembly time and also have a higher max temperature rating for max internal heat when used could also be big factors. If the power output is on par or even just a little less then previous BLDC motor that used magnet the reduced costs and higher temp ratings alone could be valid reasons for switching to your motor.

End users like us, we don't need to focus hard on those terms. For us max output power, weight and efficiency is the three most important numbers. A manufacturer that might save significant amount of money on each assembled motor over the lifespan of the motor life my choose different due to money alone.

I wish you would address the questions asked in this thread, not just saying you will answer later and then keep ignoring those questions.

skazburg   10 mW

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Re: Duyunov wheel-hub motor

Post by skazburg » Aug 18 2018 10:54am

I did not test the d7500.
How I can compare?
The site says that it is 7500W
But friends say that it does not keep the power of 7500W and overheats.
Why do you need a lot of power if you can not use it?
I do not know what power d7500 without overheating.
You also need to look at power at different speeds, efficiency, total energy costs per kilometer, etc.
Over time BLDS lose power due to demagnetization of the magnets.
Electric motors with magnets is advantageous to produce only in China.
Because almost all the deposits of rare earth elements in China.
Our electric motors can be produced in any developed country.
And I will remind you that the DA90 is a rewound electric motor, and not anew engineered.

So, I will wait with you for tests QS72V2000W
and QS48V800W.
Soon there will be results.

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parabellum   10 MW

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Re: Duyunov wheel-hub motor

Post by parabellum » Aug 18 2018 7:00pm

skazburg wrote:
Aug 18 2018 1:29am
First
QS72V2000W 15.7kg/12.3kg
Second
QS48V800W 11kg/8kg
In this video you can see the data on the rim of the wheel
https://youtu.be/6AJtvGOYHUs
These electric motors we compare with our wheel-hub motor 318 diameter. (Hanging on the wall)
20000W 20kg
Wait for details
I wonder how to compare 2kW (even worse .8kW) 205mm motor and 20kW 318mm motor and how to understand results of such comparison.
There is QS273 motor series, which goes up to 12kW (air cooled version) and is better candidate for comparison with still larger D 20kW motor.

Mentioned QS motor weights a bit over 20kg, motor only, but it proved to be structurally sufficient for hundreds Nm of torque and heavy weight load as serial production exemplar and on prototype level can be shaved down to match the weight of "Kolobok".

youlik   100 µW

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Re: Duyunov wheel-hub motor

Post by youlik » Aug 18 2018 10:40pm

This thread is going from strange to worse.
I wonder how to compare 2kW (even worse .8kW) 205mm motor and 20kW 318mm motor and how to understand results of such comparison.
About the comparisons. Now the laboratory is being completed for these purposes. Wait, there will be all comparisons for you.
About shopping. There is nothing else to buy, no serial engines. What does exist? Here are some videos about what really exists and is in the debugging stage.
Motors Duyunova 186 mm - 8 kV; 318 m - 20 kW.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhuYmI6RLo0

Motor for angle grinder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GzjsijmnxY

Wheel motor for a vehicle of Zetta with a capacity of 20 kW.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRNjZqkZJE4

Let me remind you that all these things are not made in an industrial way, but, as we say, on the knee.
And that's where the technology is already working more than one year, but in the form of serial asynchronous motors rewound by "Slavyanka".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WISVQXaTAIw

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parabellum   10 MW

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Re: Duyunov wheel-hub motor

Post by parabellum » Aug 19 2018 12:32am

No one has any doubt that your motor spins and can propulse some kind of vehicle.
Unfortunately, graph-vice "Duyunov", in explanation of technology I have seen, is referring to fixed frequency, voltage curves and advantages of "Slavyanka" in this case, where in propulsion paradigm asynchronous motors are controlled with varying frequency and corresponding voltage to flatten a torque curve.
In my opinion, to show the dominance of your technology, you should rewind a Tesla motor and beat their performance or make one, similar weight and size and beat them.

skazburg   10 mW

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Re: Duyunov wheel-hub motor

Post by skazburg » Aug 19 2018 1:01am

The difference in weight is small.
The difference in power 10x

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macribs   1 GW

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Re: Duyunov wheel-hub motor

Post by macribs » Aug 19 2018 2:43am

skazburg wrote:
Aug 19 2018 1:01am
The difference in weight is small.
The difference in power 10x
I don't understand this. You say your motor is 10 times more powerful then a similar BLDC motor? But a few posts ago it surely seemed like the output power of the Denzel motor was the same for his standard motor and your version. It seemed your motor and Denzel motor had the very same power figure. Same kw output. Explain this to me and help me understand, how can you say that your motor is more powerful, yet when a direct compare is done with Denzel motor power output is the same?

This is asked once before in this post; viewtopic.php?f=11&t=91796&start=25#p1403174
Question 1:
So how is DA-90S motor better than d7500 BLDC motor?
Question 2:
I try to do the math and it seems peak should be north of 20 kw for few seconds bursts in this post; viewtopic.php?f=11&t=91796&start=50#p1403190
Max peak output from controller = 72v x 350 A = 25 2000 w. Minus losses in both controller, wires and motor.
Anyway it seems peak output watts for a few second should be around 20 kw. Unless saturation occur before that
This should say something about efficiencies of your motor, yes? What is DA-90s motors max kw output power with 350 A @72V?

This is important for me as it help me understand what to expect from the motor, it helps me understand what kind of performance I can expect i various scenarios and then it will help to determine if this is the right motor for me or not. As a mid drive I understand we can up the torque by swapping sprockets and gear down. But for practical use @72v we also need to factor in top speed. So how many turns per volt does the DA-90S motor have?

Recap of questions I feel is not answered yet:

1: What is peak burst power output from DA-90S motor compared to the d7500 BLDC motor? (Let's say down to 3-4 seconds)

2: What is the efficiencies of the DA-90S motor? (Some BLDC hub motors claims up to 92-95% efficiency, most seems to vary from 75-85% ish)

3: How many turns per volt does the DA-90s motor have? Looking for max motor RPM @72v.

skazburg   10 mW

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Re: Duyunov wheel-hub motor

Post by skazburg » Aug 22 2018 11:49am

macribs wrote:
Aug 19 2018 2:43am
Recap of questions I feel is not answered yet:

1: What is peak burst power output from DA-90S motor compared to the d7500 BLDC motor? (Let's say down to 3-4 seconds)

2: What is the efficiencies of the DA-90S motor? (Some BLDC hub motors claims up to 92-95% efficiency, most seems to vary from 75-85% ish)

3: How many turns per volt does the DA-90s motor have? Looking for max motor RPM @72v.
- Let me remind you that the electric motor is not designed again, but rewound.
- The electric motor DA90C was tested in China. Now he is brought to our laboratory. Soon it will be tested on our equipment.
- I can not add anything new to you yet.
1. DA90S Maximum in peak to 20 seconds 9,4 kW
d7500 BLDC see the manufacturer's website
2. Efficiency nominal and efficiency at a real long run will be later.
3. https://yadi.sk/i/yYUBgiDt3aUGtR

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