Battery Packs - Where to buy them

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ohzee
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Re: Where do I go to buy a 72v Battery Complete

Post by ohzee » Sep 14, 2012 1:36 pm

dnmun wrote:that was a 16S BMS too so it is not a 72V battery, or he just copied mr li pings picture of a v2.5 signalab and his BMS is totally unknown.

jimmyD of headway-headquarters.com outside seattle builds 72V headway packs i bet and if not you can connect two 36V in series or i have a hack for the newer 12S headway BMS so you can use them as one 72V pack.

you could build a pack from the 20Ah A123 cells people are getting and get it spot welded where you live. and use the ping signalab in 24S version.
When I was getting my last BMS ping stated that he only offers up to a 20S bms. Has this changed ? If so I think id like to get one.

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Re: Where do I go to buy a 72v Battery Complete

Post by tomzgreat » Sep 14, 2012 1:37 pm

I live in Ontario California around 30 Miles East of Los Angeles.

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Re: Where do I go to buy a 72v Battery Complete

Post by tomzgreat » Sep 14, 2012 1:46 pm

arkmundi wrote:Looks like you may be new here. Suggest you read the forum, as there is a lot of info here. By doing so, you'll make an informed choice and be happy with what you get.
I've been searching the forum for the last two days. Most of the posts involve technically adept individuals who are assembling their own.

I'm a technological two thumbs who needs to buy the finished solution.

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Re: Where do I go to buy a 72v Battery Complete

Post by kriskros » Sep 14, 2012 2:02 pm

try cellman..he quoted me $600.00 for a 36v,20amp with a123 20ah cells...he is an ES member in china..very good supplier :mrgreen:

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Re: Where do I go to buy a 72v Battery Complete

Post by tomzgreat » Sep 14, 2012 2:07 pm

kriskros wrote:try cellman..he quoted me $600.00 for a 36v,20amp with a123 20ah cells...he is an ES member in china..very good supplier :mrgreen:
I'm looking for a 72V not a 36V

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Re: Where do I go to buy a 72v Battery Complete

Post by dnmun » Sep 14, 2012 2:08 pm

i thought li ping offered a 24S BMS. i have a few old headway 24S, i just hacked up two v1 signalabs to make a 22S pack. it is balancing now.

the pack is assembled in two packs, 12S and 10S and i have a master and slave BMS and the motor current only flows through the mosfets on the lower BMS. it handles both LVC and HVC for all 22S and i built a 81V charger from a meanwell clone and 24V kingpan charger.

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Re: Where do I go to buy a 72v Battery Complete

Post by tomzgreat » Sep 14, 2012 2:15 pm

I should have mentioned that I spoke with Ping and he offered to hook up 2 36V 20AH batteries Packs to make a 72V.

It seemed expensive and bulky. Also some of the quotes in the Forum haven't been complimentary about
Ping in terms of High Performance. So I'm exploring my options.

I Think 10 or 15 Ah should be enough.

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Re: Where do I go to buy a 72v Battery Complete

Post by docnjoj » Sep 14, 2012 2:46 pm

Hi tomzgreat
Hmmmmmm To paraphrase dogman:
You can have cheap
You can have high performance
You can have long lasting.

But you can't have all three so you need to pick the part you want. In this case since you don't want to assemble A123 20 AH cells and agniusm's kit (he has a 24S one) or 2x12S then you do limit your options for relatively inexpensive with high performance and long lasting.
otherDoc
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

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Re: Where do I go to buy a 72v Battery Complete

Post by tomzgreat » Sep 14, 2012 2:58 pm

docnjoj wrote:Hi tomzgreat
Hmmmmmm To paraphrase dogman:
You can have cheap
You can have high performance
You can have long lasting.

But you can't have all three so you need to pick the part you want. In this case since you don't want to assemble A123 20 AH cells and agniusm's kit (he has a 24S one) or 2x12S then you do limit your options for relatively inexpensive with high performance and long lasting.
otherDoc
How about reasonable price, reasonable performance, reasonably long lasting?

This is an interesting statement.
"Since you don't want to assemble A123 20 AH cells and agniusm's kit (he has a 24S one) or 2x12S"
One of the fascinating observations that I've made is that people who are skilled at something take their skills for granted. It's not a matter that " I don't want to ". It's a matter that I'm incapable of.

Another option would be to pay someone to assemble the Battery Kit. But I don't know anyone with those types of skills.

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Re: Where do I go to buy a 72v Battery Complete

Post by arkmundi » Sep 14, 2012 4:10 pm

tomzgreat wrote:I should have mentioned that I spoke with Ping and he offered to hook up 2 36V 20AH batteries Packs to make a 72V.

It seemed expensive and bulky. Also some of the quotes in the Forum haven't been complimentary about
Ping in terms of High Performance. So I'm exploring my options.

I Think 10 or 15 Ah should be enough.
that's a good solution. make sure to ask for the A123 amp20 build. yes, expensive, but think lifetime cost as that's what you pay for. hence these will be lowest overall.

as I'm just now about to build one of these myself, I'd be willing to build two for you - 12S A123 AMP20's. if interested PM me.

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dogman dan
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Re: Where do I go to buy a 72v Battery Complete

Post by dogman dan » Sep 14, 2012 4:43 pm

Well, heres kind of the deal. Most battery manufacturers are catering to the buisness segment that makes them money. That's the mass audience that just wants a normal, and possibly even street legal where they live ebike.

But now you want high performance, AND you want it plug and play. So many of us want to do our own assembly ( usually to save a $) of a high performance, street illegal sort of vehicle that there is not a huge market yet for 72v high amp bms's or the chargers to go with them. By the time many of us go to higher voltages, we are sick of bms's and don't trust em as much as we trust our own monitoring.

Your best approach is going to be either learning more so you can assemble a 72v pack, or buying two more common 36v packs and stringing them in series.

It doesn't have to be low c rate stuff such as the 2c ping batteries if you have a hot controller. If you search for it you can find others that sell headway packs besides bms battery. I don't have the links to headway stuff. I've been dorking around with pings for low amp bikes and lipo for the hot stuff. Maybe start another thread asking who sells 36v headway packs. I believe there are more sources for a complete 36v headwy pack than just bms battery.

But if you want high performance, combined with light weight and small physical size, there really is only one decent choice at this point. That is RC lipo from Hobby King. You will still have to do some assembly, but folks here can help you understand it.

Hell, how hard can it be if I figured it out? I'm a good carpenter, but no electrician. A 72v 10 ah lipo pack is not that hard to put together. Then you just need to add some monitoring gear to the bike like a cycleanalyst, and you are pretty good to go. Charging setups for lipo do get expensive, but are worth every penny. They are truly smart chargers that include the charging portion of the bms.

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Re: Where do I go to buy a 72v Battery Complete

Post by 999zip999 » Sep 14, 2012 5:15 pm

Is this your first ebike ?

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boppinbob
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Re: Where do I go to buy a 72v Battery Complete

Post by boppinbob » Sep 14, 2012 6:04 pm

If you've got 1800.00 bucks to spare you can pick up a safe and stable high capacity 20AH 150 amp continuous Lithium Manganese plug and play Sony manufactured 72 volt battery from Electricrider.com or you can string together some lipos from HK but read up on them first.
Project bike-Genesis v2100, Crystalyte HS 3540 with 72v40A controller and four 5s8Ah zippy lipos in series.

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Beachcruzer
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Re: Where do I go to buy a 72v Battery Complete

Post by Beachcruzer » Sep 14, 2012 6:07 pm

Second what Dogman said about lipo. Get Icecube57 on the forum to make you a battery/wiring harness and give you his shopping list for lipo bricks and charging apparatus. Then you literally just plug the batteries into the harness, and away you go. Ice will send you a YouTube video to talk you through it. For a 72 volt, 10 ah pack, you're looking at about $300 in batteries (or $200 for a 67-volt pack if the $25 4s turnigy packs are in stock), $100 in charging stuff, and whatever Ice gets paid for harnesses now, which I keep telling him is too little. You do have to be careful with lipo but the rules are quite simple. Follow them exactly, store in a safe place, and no worries.

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Tommy L
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Re: Where do I go to buy a 72v Battery Complete

Post by Tommy L » Sep 14, 2012 6:55 pm

https://www.electricautosports.com/catalog/41

This is the most complete battery system I've seen. No experience with the link above.
The 72v 40ah is around 3Kw :twisted:

But even with complete systems, I'd suggest that one should educate themselves for the
sake of safety to themselves, others, property and lets not forget "The Investment" :)

Tommy L sends..... \\m//
http://www.rawvelocity.com

- 4th Hoolagan FS Mtn 9C-2810 with 128v nom 9.2ah A123 40S40P(1.2Kw) - Lyen 18Fet 4115 - 77.8kph :)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =4&t=39480

- 3rd Catrike 700 Bionx PL350 Velo build
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYdnkaAhVtI

- 2nd 150lbs Pusher Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1qTc4sjORY

- 1st Sears NS mtn bike - Rigid 10a drill 800rpm - 2 12v AGM - 1000 watt inverter - 600w dimmer for throttle, wicked torque!

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Re: Where do I go to buy a 72v Battery Complete

Post by mvly » Sep 14, 2012 7:40 pm

Here is a good deal for you. It states 84V, but that is when it's fully topped. This battery is 74V nominal.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =9&t=43771

You will need a special Lipo charger and probably have to split it up to charge. I am sure icecube will show you how.

You are dealing with Lipo, so know what you are doing.

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Re: Where do I go to buy a 72v Battery Complete

Post by 999zip999 » Sep 15, 2012 12:55 am

Lipo you need some power supplies a charger like a hyperion1420 and a barbaque or fireplace to be safe. You have to follow the rlues with Lipo.

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Re: Where do I go to buy a 72v Battery Complete

Post by vodk1c3 » Sep 15, 2012 4:29 am

Currently looking at 4 of those in series for a short range/fast ebike :
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1X-22-2v-12c-500 ... 27ca44d66a

Still looking for cheap charger/balancing/low voltage cutoff but you can fallow my last post about it.
Maybe will go for a complete a123 pouch bag kit if I don't find cheap LIPO stuff...
First bike (Nitro XT) :
Vpower 1000w 48v 26" rear kit
Vpower LiFePo4 48v 12a battery / 5a charger
20km+@35km/h | 45km/h max speed

Second bike (Everything working, snow is fun ^^) :
Crystalyte HS3540 24" rear
25s1p 5000mah LiPo @ 100v / iMaxb6 charger / Hua tong 72v 35a instant start controller
65+ km/h and lot of torque; battery sag alot; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqf8drRaj9k


Currently working on my first high power build with DH frame / A123 pouch

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dogman dan
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Re: Where do I go to buy a 72v Battery Complete

Post by dogman dan » Sep 15, 2012 6:15 am

Interesting that electricrider is now selling lithium. They used to be the last die hard advocates of lead acid, and had provided some good pannier racks for carrying it all.

Dissapointing, is that they seem unwilling to disclose the c rate of the cells they use. This never mattered with lead because there is not a lot of variation in c rates with lead. They do have a link to a page, that basicly says don't get the lithium to run a 40 amp controller and a big motor, (thier phoenix model)

With lithium though, lifepo4 can be anything from 1c to 20c. It would be nice to know what you are getting eh? I'm less familiar with limn, but I never heard of any that was much better than 1-3c.
So though this is a source for a 72v pack, I would not be calling it a real substitute for the perfromance of 30c lico (RC lipo)

There is simply no way a 72v 10 ah pack from electricrider is going to run a 40 amp controller without risking damage to the battery. So you'd have to carry more of it, and destroy the handling of the bike on the trickier parts of the trails. What works on street or riding dirt roads fails on tough singletrack.

EDIT

Reading back, I see I may be confusing you with another thread. What exactly do you need to do? Is this for street or dirt? How many amps controller? Maybe 72v 10 amps is plenty for the motor you will be running.

Even for street though, carrying more than 15 pounds of battery tends to unblanace the bike too much if carried on a rear rack, and more than 72v 10 ah, 48v 15 ah, or 36v 20 ah never fits in the front triangle of most bikes.

So you end up right back where you started. You want to carry about 800wh max, and if you want power, you need a good c rate battery. A123's, RC lipo, etc. not 2c stuff. If you wanted 36v, then it's easy to carry enough 2c battery to have some amps.


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Re: Where do I go to buy a 72v Battery Complete

Post by Tommy L » Sep 15, 2012 9:39 am

dogman wrote:but I never heard of any that was much better than 1-3c.
There is simply no way a 72v 10 ah pack from electricrider is going to run a 40 amp controller without risking damage to the battery. So you'd have to carry more of it, and destroy the handling of the bike on the trickier parts of the trails. What works on street or riding dirt roads fails on tough singletrack.
Hey there Dogman! :)

My 38120HP 8ah red headways handle 4.5c constant and my A123 (once assembled 4p) handle 5-7c Constant.

1p of my headways is 36amps but if I run 2p 72amps :) @ 3.0v steady (per cell in 2p)

my A123 in a 4p handle 5-7c 46-64amps @ 3.0v steady (per cell in 4P)

Even with my 9C 2810 I see peaks of 3 or 4kw, so on my 1kw pack that's a spike of 3 to 4c and nominal running between 500-2500 watts
0.5C and 2.5C

Build the pack for what you need it to do, and "SURE" if weight is an issue... go to the "Darkside" of RC LiCo :)
I haven't been there yet..... but I'm sure it's coming.... lol :)

No matter the chemistry, use caution and learn learn learn to be safe to you, others, property and investment.

Tommy L sends..... \\m//
http://www.rawvelocity.com

- 4th Hoolagan FS Mtn 9C-2810 with 128v nom 9.2ah A123 40S40P(1.2Kw) - Lyen 18Fet 4115 - 77.8kph :)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =4&t=39480

- 3rd Catrike 700 Bionx PL350 Velo build
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYdnkaAhVtI

- 2nd 150lbs Pusher Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1qTc4sjORY

- 1st Sears NS mtn bike - Rigid 10a drill 800rpm - 2 12v AGM - 1000 watt inverter - 600w dimmer for throttle, wicked torque!

48.2mph/77.8kph Club

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dogman dan
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Re: Where do I go to buy a 72v Battery Complete

Post by dogman dan » Sep 15, 2012 3:52 pm

Was refering to the limn, sold at electricrider. Boppinbobs post above says 150 amps from a 20 ah pack, thats 7.5c. But I see no such claim on electricriders site, nor any identification of the cell manufacturer or the c rate. I know there are good cells out there, but if they don't want to say they are the good stuff.... ?

I just like some claims for c rates so we can divide them in half and have a clue. Hey Bob, has anybody reviewed that electricrider limn?

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dogman dan
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Re: Where do I go to buy a 72v Battery Complete

Post by dogman dan » Sep 15, 2012 4:07 pm

I just dug around some more on ER's website, and found where they claim 200 amps continuous from a 20 ah pack.

So it does sound like a 50 amp discharge from a 10 ah pack would work. 8) Very nice, for those with $$. 72v 10 ah would be nearly as small and light as lipo. Only slightly bigger because of round cells instead of pouches. Pretty high price, but for good cells not sent from china, no suprise. Not cheap, but definitely an option for those with some cash.

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Re: Where do I go to buy a 72v Battery Complete

Post by kriskros » Sep 15, 2012 4:53 pm

tomzgreat wrote:
kriskros wrote:try cellman..he quoted me $600.00 for a 36v,20amp with a123 20ah cells...he is an ES member in china..very good supplier :mrgreen:
I'm looking for a 72V not a 36V
he does make ALL sizes...really

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Re: Where do I go to buy a 72v Battery Complete

Post by boppinbob » Sep 15, 2012 6:16 pm

Dogman, no reviews. Just their claims. I know that the owner has done a lot of work trying to get into something besides SLA. LiMn is the best solution for him as a retailer to provide safe, reliable consumer friendly batteries. I believe he is in it for the long haul and doesn't want the headache of badly behaving or dangerous battery systems. He is in the US so he also has to think about his liability. The Chinese aren't as concerned about a lawsuit if you get a little KKF or your house burns down. I love LiPo but let's face it, you'd better do your research when building a lipo pack and be sober and awake when connecting them back up after charging. Some people, believe it or not don't want to get into all that.
Project bike-Genesis v2100, Crystalyte HS 3540 with 72v40A controller and four 5s8Ah zippy lipos in series.

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