Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

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skeetab5780
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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by skeetab5780 » Dec 23, 2017 3:33 pm

Yes that is the bike and i think its a great idea, but wrong frame and wheel size choice. It looks extremely silly and not well thought out, nothing against the company in general.

Do you realize how cheap all the parts on that bike are? It is all chinese made...the motor is only $300 and it is the nicest part on the bike by far. Do not fool yourself and think they are giving this bike away for free at the $1900 no battery price tag.

I also own the controller they are using its worth $200 kls7218

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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by skeetab5780 » Dec 29, 2017 12:05 pm

Strapped a Gopro to the frame and took the bike for one last test ride with the #40 chain and the 12t front and 60t rear. Once I get my welder I can weld the battery mount and tensioner mount and get this thing on the trail!


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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by skeetab5780 » Dec 29, 2017 12:40 pm

Also just got my new welder in so I can get to work soon!
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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by skeetab5780 » Jan 04, 2018 12:57 pm

Oh my god my welding skills are so awful! But it seems to be holding, hold your breathe!

But I tacked the battery tray in place and tacked the chain tensioner into position.

Now I am charging both my 18s packs so I can parallel them and get them mounted to the bike. I was hoping to get it done today to take a ride out in the 1 foot of snow blizzard we are having outside...but the packs need to balance so I can put them together and they are trickle charging at the moment.

Bad pics but oh well!
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If I can weld anyone can! Hacked the ebay tensioner cut most of it away. clamped it to the swingarm and tacked it in 4 spots...good enough for me!
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Last edited by skeetab5780 on Jan 05, 2018 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by skeetab5780 » Jan 05, 2018 11:55 am

More progress today!

Used some NSI it-4 connectors (on the shelf at my work) to quickly parallel the packs and get this thing riding
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I don't talk about this much but I use heavy duty Velcro to stick my packs to stuff and to each other, it comes in handy. I bought 50ft of both sections about 8 years ago and still have some
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Shot of the batteries with the seat off
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Tucks in just about perfect under the seat when installed
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Strapped them in to snug them into the Velcro to prevent moving
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routed the main battery wires from the controller to the batteries
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Hooked up the generic Gopro
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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by AMM118 » Jan 06, 2018 1:14 pm

Estimated weight ready to ride?

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izeman
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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by izeman » Jan 11, 2018 10:04 am

why don't you put it directly under the seat? there seems to be some space, and cog should be better as well. or divide the pack up. half there, half there.

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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by skeetab5780 » Jan 12, 2018 11:44 am

izeman wrote:
Jan 11, 2018 10:04 am
why don't you put it directly under the seat? there seems to be some space, and cog should be better as well. or divide the pack up. half there, half there.
That's not a bad idea, they aren't super heavy it shouldn't matter much

I still haven't been able to get out and ride cannot wait!

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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by nutnspecial » Jan 13, 2018 1:46 am

directly under the seat
good for doubling the pack if wanted/desired. Secondarily since obviously more of pita to mount and considering minimal change to ride weight distrubu/characteristics

Lookin Bangin skeetab

my sht gues in wate is 150lb max, maybe 140lbs as is? Gauging from my 2 hub motor fatbike that's ~100lbs with ~600wh.

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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by John in CR » Jan 13, 2018 8:17 pm

Coming along nicely. Looks like a fun little bike...fun enough that you'll want more riding time, so start thinking about placement for more battery. Your battery pack will thank you too, since the lower the current draw per cell and shallower the typical DOD, the longer batteries live. My shop buddy is still using a pack I made in 2008 with Makita "konion" blocks I bought from DrBass. Sure by themselves they sag like a 90yr old grandma with watermelon size breasts when young, but they still have nearly 70% of their original capacity. We prop up the voltage during peak current draw with 5ah of 5yr old Lipo bricks. Those Konions had a 500 cycle rating, and by being kind to them they've lived through several thousand cycles in almost daily use.

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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by skeetab5780 » Jan 18, 2018 9:51 am

I have a feeling these KLS controllers are nothing but problems... I've been trying to give them the benefit of the doubt

It seems the controller does not output full current from a stall, which is ridiculous. Basically I can push the throttle 100% from a stand still and it will just slowly pull away, wont break the tire lose not even close...

I went out in a snow storm with it and I had to try pretty hard with snow on the ground to get the ass end to break loose, seems most people with larger moto builds going on are finding out this also and switching to other vendors...

I didn't want to spend a ton of money on this build so I am thinking of maybe throwing it in the trash

Since I have no way to monitor the power output right now its all just speculation, but it should be a lot more powerful from a stall IMO

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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by izeman » Jan 18, 2018 11:47 am

nothing really relevant to see on the video :) you should have mounted it filming the rear wheel.
but nethertheless you are absolutely correct. kellys are totally different from those xie-chang controllers (especially with a long block time set). kellys will release their power very smoothly and controllable.
unfortunately this may be (WAY) to little for our likings. i was never really able to do a wheely even though i had double the max power compared to my xie-chang controller.
riding the bike with the kelly and e.g. trying to power lift the front wheel as you want to hop over a fallen tree or something is very hard to do, next to impossible.
what you need to do is crank up the phase amps as high as possible. maybe if you switch from TORQUE throttle to SPEED throttle or mixed mode it will help. have you tried that?

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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by skeetab5780 » Jan 18, 2018 1:36 pm

izeman wrote:
Jan 18, 2018 11:47 am

what you need to do is crank up the phase amps as high as possible. maybe if you switch from TORQUE throttle to SPEED throttle or mixed mode it will help. have you tried that?
they are set from factory at max

and there is no torque or speed option on KLS

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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by jonnydrive » Jan 19, 2018 9:23 am

To improve throttle responsiveness in KLS you could play with the following settings
[Torque Speed Kp], [Torque Speed Ki] and [Speed Err Limit]
Because they are the parameters for the PID Setting that control the throttle response.

I used an online emulator to see what happens changing the parameters.

For my trialbike I found this settings as a good compromise (but is strictly related to the gear reduction you use)
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For more aggressive throttle try to reduce the Kp value.

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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by skeetab5780 » Jan 19, 2018 11:37 am

Thanks johnny ill try that, i feel like i got 100 forum members to but the kls7230s and most everyone seems to hate them!

You should try to upload a vid of your bike in action, interesting gearbox use

After reviewing the controller manual again it seems i need to do the oposite and raise the numbers not lower.

It states if you think the acceleration is really really strong then reduce the numbers. I just want more torque at low rpm

I guess ill play around with them and see

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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by jonnydrive » Jan 22, 2018 6:00 am

Yes skeetab,
you are right: bigger the value, better the acceleration (my mistake).
Unfortunately no one, neither Kelly, explain exactly how the PID parameters works, I made some tries during the ride, the bluetooth adapter plus the mobile app helps a lot 8)

I found kelly controller quite a pain in the ass.....problems with both KLS and KBS...

I will try to make a video during a ride. The use of the gearbox make the ride more fun also with the boring-acceleration kelly controller 8)

Could someone suggest a better controller with a comparable price?

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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by skeetab5780 » Mar 01, 2018 1:34 pm

The magic smoke came out of this motor today... It was a really fun ride up until then...put about 10 miles on until I attempted a large hill climb home to my truck.
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was climbing a decent hill and it was doing it fine then all of a sudden it stopped I looked down to see a dark cloud of smoke bellowing out of the shaft/sprocket of the motor. It happened so fast I couldn't even get my gloves off to his record on the camera, by the time I got the camera out smoke was done. I then noticed the motor had zero power and it was making a really high pitched noise instead of moving, shortly after this while trying to walk the bike and feather the throttle to help me move, one of the motor phases melted right thru the insulation an melted nicely. It was the green phase

Right now the bike is sitting in the woods since it was too muddy and hilly to get it out, im not sure if the motor or controller failed, but after a motor phase melted it seemed like the controller was still trying to work.

Still not sure how to get it out of the woods without a quad tow, I took the battery and camera off of it but controller and motor still worth a bit of $$

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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by macribs » Mar 01, 2018 3:24 pm

Sorry to hear about the melt down. If you got a mx bike or a quad you can tow it out of the woods, or can you get your hands on a 4wd car that will make it to your bike? If not, you got to do it old skool. Muscle power, and ropes and pulleys to aid up the hills. If there ain't decent trees or rocks to use as anchors for the pulleys you might need to look for 4wd type of dirt anchor, it will get the job done but makes more to carry.

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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by skeetab5780 » Mar 01, 2018 3:35 pm

Here is a quick video but there is more to come... it was a very fun ride prior to this


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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by macribs » Mar 02, 2018 1:51 am

That dirt road is like a highway, just run your truck into the woods for a rescue mission. If vehicles are not allowed try make the run at early hours or late. Yeah a mile of pushing that thing uphill sure will take its toll. Don't know why I figured your bike was stranded close to the truck, I did not picture a mile long haul by man alone.

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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by madin88 » Mar 02, 2018 2:34 am

Sorry to hear that. I guess in future you will never ride without temperature monitoring.
Hopefully the bike wasn't stolen if you come back for recovery.

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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by skeetab5780 » Mar 02, 2018 7:25 am

Ya temp monitor would have saved the motor but wouldnt have made it more capable. Tbh if it dies that easy i dont want the pos!

There is a huge gate blocking trail entrance so vehicles cannot fit, its super washes out anyway. Youd need a jeep lifted not a pickup

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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by skeetab5780 » Mar 02, 2018 10:30 am

Its still on the trail that i know of and we have two days of rain with flood warning forecast...its pouring on her right now :(

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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by macribs » Mar 02, 2018 12:16 pm

Well look at the bright side, no thieving bastards will walk a mile in the pooring rain to push an e-moto a mile uphills in the mud and the flood.
Have you had a close look at the gate blocking the entry? If they use a pickable lock........one early morning 4x4 ride during the weekend should be safe enough to recover the bike. If you get a 4x4 or quad in all honesty I would consider to brute force that gate or circumvent it if at all possible.

Sooner or later some thieving bastards will come across the bike and start picking of parts or remove it completely.

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Re: Apollo 250 Dirt Bike Conversion

Post by skeetab5780 » Mar 02, 2018 12:33 pm

Yeah not sure what to do yet its pouring so bad its not even funny, I may go strip it for parts its 37deg.
Or I can try to push it another 50 feet everyday heh

I had such a bad day yesterday because before I fried my motor I also lost my cell phone, here is a short trail review of this fun time!

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