Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

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Rovii   100 W

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Sep 25 2019 8:20am

Ordered the motor right now and have to wait up to 14 weeks ...
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

SlowCo   100 kW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by SlowCo » Sep 25 2019 9:51am

:thumb:
Instead of just buying a Nissan Leaf motor from the scrap yard and a controller to drive it (200+kW peak) you now have to wait up to 14 weeks for an experimental motor. That has never been run with your controller and have to hope you can get it to work.
You are a brave man although a little masochistic...

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eee291   10 kW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by eee291 » Sep 25 2019 10:28am

Ha, Nissan leaf in a scrapyard... only in my dreams or the Netherlands.

mahoma30   100 mW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by mahoma30 » Sep 26 2019 10:06am

contact Carel Hassink, he has Connection to crashed Cars in England and handle with second Life Cells


Rovii   100 W

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Sep 29 2019 10:37pm

So how much torque can the Nissan Leaf Motor produce on its own (without transmission) and how much turns will be possible?
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

SlowCo   100 kW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by SlowCo » Sep 30 2019 7:02am

Arlo got just above 400Nm and 300bhp from the standard Nissan leaf drive train:




So 401Nm/7.94 (gearbox reduction)= 50.5Nm from the motor. You would need a higher top speed so can probably change the final reduction to 6:1 (or even 5:1) with the sprockets.
Here is his thread: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=63982


Imagine that motor and controller in a motorcycle :twisted:


Rovii   100 W

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Oct 01 2019 12:35am

Well, that sounds really nice.
My motor will do over 600Nm and turns up to 6000rpm.
Some rpm´s more will be possible by over volting but manufacturer said 6000 should be the limit!
So I will go with two different transmissions (17/45=2,6 and 20/40=2) for testing.

But Arlo´s car has a big benefit. He can store many more battery packs inside!

But as you also said, my combination has never tested before, so let´s see how it will be working in future (hopefully) :wink:
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

SlowCo   100 kW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by SlowCo » Oct 01 2019 7:02am

600Nm without a reduction gear...? :shock:
Then it will be even bigger, heavier and more expensive than this:https://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_ ... 9fe899d8e1 Because that "only" puts out 380Nm and is already 68kg by 26cm diameter and 31cm long...

Your quoted figure seems similar to a Tesla motor. You'll need a serious battery pack to provide enough amps :bolt:
If it can put out 600Nm at 6000rpm you'd get 505hp :twisted:
http://wentec.com/unipower/calculators/power_torque.asp

Rovii   100 W

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Oct 01 2019 7:18am

No, 600Nm at 6000 rpm will not be possible and now, he is cheaper, lighter but bigger in diameter and smaller in lenght.
Regarding the motor manufacturer and taking the power out of the battery into consideration (without losses).
The motor can hold over 600Nm until 4 krpm and will then drop down to 350Nm.
The main issue will be the heat which shall be below 150°C.
But this is all theoretical!
My problem will be the batterie capacity or space inside my motorcycle.
I wanna go with turnigy heavy duty 5000mAh which I already own (5Ah) and at the end I wanna go 10Ah.
I calculated 28kg/5Ah by reaching 798VDC and 0,8V voltage drop per Cell, so 190 Cells = 152V =646VDC.

And the motor will be from Phi Power AG, PhE381 3 Turn (38cm diameter, 38kg) which has not the standard values.
It will be a special version to match with the controller specs.

I need max power for max. 10 seconds or less, I hope!

But 500HP will defenitely not be reached.
I calculated now 404HP at 4000rpm if the calculation from motor manufacturer is correct.
The torque until there (from zero) is constant if I get the current out of the batteries.

BTW.: Scott Drive has tested Remy HVH 250-115 DOM motor with SD300 up to 340kW, there it ends and there is actually one at ebay for 4100$ (when I asked in August)/ now 3400$ without shipping and tax (440Nm peak, 700VDC, 600Arms, 10 krpm).
But 55kg and needed oil cooling system let me change to water/glycol cooled 381.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source= ... 9763113688
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

SlowCo   100 kW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by SlowCo » Oct 01 2019 11:02am

If you use the calculator I linked to then 600Nm at 4000rpm gives 337hp. So roughly the same as the Nissan Leaf motor with Arlo's controller/inverter. That would cost less than €2000,- for motor and controller/inverter. How much will you be spending on the motor and controller you have (ordered)...?

Rovii   100 W

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Oct 01 2019 11:34am

With your calculations you are right but as I said no standard I have more Nm from the beginning up to 4000 rpm, so the calculator said 404HP but it’s ok!
So with 2:1 transmission I will have about 3 times more Nm from the beginning than Arlo‘s car and the wheel can spin up to 3000 turns@ no load. I think this will be fast enough!
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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madin88   100 MW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by madin88 » Oct 01 2019 11:43am

SlowCo wrote:
Sep 30 2019 7:02am
So 401Nm/7.94 (gearbox reduction)= 50.5Nm from the motor.
I think the 400Nm must have been from the motor.

SlowCo   100 kW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by SlowCo » Oct 01 2019 11:57am

madin88 wrote:
Oct 01 2019 11:43am
SlowCo wrote:
Sep 30 2019 7:02am
So 401Nm/7.94 (gearbox reduction)= 50.5Nm from the motor.
I think the 400Nm must have been from the motor.
No it was 296 lb-ft at the wheels (see from 56 sec. in video on the dyno) and the Nissan Leaf drive train has a 7.94:1 reduction inside. That equals 401Nm at the wheels. I don't know the internal losses but say 10% so then the motor torque would be 401/7.94=50.5+10%=(approx.) 55Nm for the Leaf motor driven by Arlo's inverter/controller.

Rovii   100 W

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Oct 01 2019 12:00pm

madin88 wrote:
Oct 01 2019 11:43am
SlowCo wrote:
Sep 30 2019 7:02am
So 401Nm/7.94 (gearbox reduction)= 50.5Nm from the motor.
I think the 400Nm must have been from the motor.
So he is running a 12,6 @ 115mph.
I don’t know his weight (car and driver)?

At the end time and speed will show it works or not.
This are only numbers.
I don’t have the time and experience to build such a controller Arlo did and it’s although not possible to get a motor and controller here in Germany for 2000€!
I tried to contact cheap motors from USA (600-800$)
But I will got no feedback or very high shipping costs
without warranty.

E. G. https://www.google.de/url?sa=i&source=w ... 5696882285
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

mahoma30   100 mW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by mahoma30 » Oct 01 2019 7:38pm

hast du mal probiert, die Lieferkosten über eine Auktion zu ermitteln ?
https://www.shiply.com/de

Rovii   100 W

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Oct 01 2019 8:43pm

Nein, habe ich nicht.
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

kiwifiat   100 W

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by kiwifiat » Oct 01 2019 11:27pm

madin88 wrote:
Oct 01 2019 11:43am
SlowCo wrote:
Sep 30 2019 7:02am
So 401Nm/7.94 (gearbox reduction)= 50.5Nm from the motor.
I think the 400Nm must have been from the motor.
Yes of course it is 400Nm from the motor, the factory Gen1 leaf makes 280Nm. A puny e-bike hub motor makes more than 50Nm.
“You never know if quotes on the internet are genuine.” - Abraham Lincoln

SlowCo   100 kW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by SlowCo » Oct 03 2019 1:02pm

kiwifiat wrote:
Oct 01 2019 11:27pm
madin88 wrote:
Oct 01 2019 11:43am
SlowCo wrote:
Sep 30 2019 7:02am
So 401Nm/7.94 (gearbox reduction)= 50.5Nm from the motor.
I think the 400Nm must have been from the motor.
Yes of course it is 400Nm from the motor, the factory Gen1 leaf makes 280Nm. A puny e-bike hub motor makes more than 50Nm.
That would mean that multiplied with the 7.94 gear reduction of the Leaf Drive train it puts out 3183Nm of torque to the wheel. :shock:
That can't be correct?

kiwifiat   100 W

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by kiwifiat » Oct 03 2019 3:57pm

SlowCo wrote:
Oct 03 2019 1:02pm
That would mean that multiplied with the 7.94 gear reduction of the Leaf Drive train it puts out 3183Nm of torque to the wheel. :shock:
That can't be correct?
Sure it can. Arlo's motor made 302.3 hp. Convert that to metric watts. You say the motor only makes 50Nm. Based on your assertion calculate the angular velocity in rpm required for 50Nm to produce 225000 odd watts of power. Does the answer seem even vaguely reasonable. Try again with 400Nm, seem any more realistic?

Rovii, your bike looks awesome. I am looking forward to learning the make and model of your new motor and I have no doubt it will be a good one.
“You never know if quotes on the internet are genuine.” - Abraham Lincoln

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by John in CR » Oct 08 2019 9:57pm

If it's a BLDC motor you need the Kv and the expected phase-to-phase resistance. Then you can get an idea of the current handling and torque potential of the motor. Kv tells you exactly the torque per amp the motor will make, which I'd trust long before I would the manufacturers hype.

Regarding your Turnigy cells, aren't those a couple of years old now? RC lipo ages quickly just with time, so you need to test them to find out their true current and capacity potential. As they age their internal resistance increases and the resulting voltage sag under load may mean you need more in series to get the working voltage you want.

Rovii   100 W

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Oct 09 2019 1:40am

Here is a descrition from spec.

Yes John you are right, the oldest batteries where from 2015.
Therefore I definitely have to check them before!

Company calculated the max Nm with 720 up to 4krpm if I get the current out of the batteries.
But as you know, that´s theory and a big difference to real practice!

So only a number ...

There will hopefully come some good results on the track at the end.

Btw.: I asked for the weight of nissan leaf motor controller unit which is available here also in Germany:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/MOTOR-EM57-EM61 ... Swkoldh4i8

You wanna know which answer I got?
...
...
Seller: The overall price for the Unit ist 2800€
:lol: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

You see how intelligent people are by selling used equipment.
Therefore I decided not to use an used article and go with new stuff!
Attachments
Motor spec.jpg
Motor spec.jpg (101.4 KiB) Viewed 135 times
0A8964C2-75E2-49E1-BECF-F7F547743C42.png
0A8964C2-75E2-49E1-BECF-F7F547743C42.png (313.82 KiB) Viewed 131 times
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

SlowCo   100 kW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by SlowCo » Oct 09 2019 5:22am

Rovii wrote:
Oct 09 2019 1:40am
Btw.: I asked for the weight of nissan leaf motor controller unit which is available here also in Germany:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/MOTOR-EM57-EM61 ... Swkoldh4i8

You wanna know which answer I got?

Seller: The overall price for the Unit ist 2800€
That combined with a controller board from Paul Holmes would get you a plug and play EV conversion drive train:
https://pandspowerelectronics.ecwid.com ... y=22093524
That doesn't seem too bad? Weight seems to be around 80kg https://www.marklines.com/en/report_all/rep1104_201209 but maybe Arlo can give a more exact number.

I do understand that in your case building a motorcycle instead of a car conversion it is easier to work with a separate motor and controller. I will be following your progress as I think it is a very interesting build! Good luck and enjoy :thumb:

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by John in CR » Oct 09 2019 6:24am

That torque constant equals a Kv of 7rpm/volt, so you'll need to run a pretty high voltage to get to the rpm you want, though with that amount of torque how much gear reduction do you really need? The low winding resistance supports the level of current you'll need to achieve that torque, especially if you always make sure you're launching with a cool motor. Personally I'd figure out a way to ice the motor before every run, since the resistance of copper changes by almost 0.4% for each 1°C change in temp, making at least a 5-10% decrease in resistance from ambient temps easily achievable,

As long as you feed it with the battery the system deserves, it should really blow away the numbers you posted using the big hubmotor. Like with any serious 1/4 mile vehicle, controlling the launch is likely to be your primary issue.

I look forward to seeing it all come together.

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Dui, ni shuo de dui   1 kW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Oct 10 2019 2:16am

Silly question maybe, but can a normal chain take that kind of torque?
:bolt: :bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W 72V40Ah A123 cells : :bolt: :bolt:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 12&t=90032

:bolt: :bolt: My electric Scooter: 11 000W 72V 50Ah LiFePO4 cells: :bolt: :bolt:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 12&t=75912

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