Dans razor E300

Show off your E-Scooter or Motorcycle creation here.
Post Reply
Dandaman78
1 mW
1 mW
Posts: 13
Joined: Feb 15, 2010 5:33 am
Location: Tamworth, Australia

Dans razor E300

Post by Dandaman78 » Feb 18, 2010 4:09 am

G'day,

Heres some pics and info on my latest project (and first EV) the not so humble razor E300. I built it after work over a week or so using some fairly back yard engineering solutions, but im limited to only a small drill press and angle grinder at the moment. In the near future i'd love to buy a lathe and mill.

The motor is a turnigy 63-74-200kv, the speed control a turnigy k-force 120HV with cooling fan mounted, and the batteries 2 x turnigy 6s5000mah. Also in there is a turnigy servo tester and turnigy watt meter. The system is currently wired for 22v 10ah, but I'll change it up to 44v once i get the speed control back. Which fried BTW. In the mean time I have a k-force 150a 6s speed control due anyday now :)

Someone may be able to enlighten me, i thought the 130amp rated watt meter would of packed it in way before the speed control? Which i was sort of planning as protection...

Currently its geared 5.5:1 (10/55) and calculated speed is 36km/h. Range im only guessing at 6 -7 km. At the moment it doesn't like stationary starts, a kick is required to ensure smooth take offs. Once its doing walking speed however the throttle tracks very well and its easy to pull wheelies using power alone. Its fun!!

Future plans include a respray and some grip tape/decals, 80-100 motor, throttleizer and 4 lipo's for 44v 10ah. And a helmet!

Any comments/advice appreciated

Dan.



You can see the twist grip motorbike throttle and window for watt meter
Image

minus batteries and toasted esc, had to remove stand and grind mount to fit motor in this way..
Image

servo tester mounted on steel plate, gears are 48 pitch r/c stuff, no throttle stop used i just set the geometry so it stops itself.
Image

drilled/flap disced/filed back cover of old motor, the photo is abit crooked, theres actually atleast 5mm all round it.
Image

Used the star shaped motor mount included with outrunner, hence the socket head screws and recessed middle holes. I added the cooling hole as well as a vent on the back at the top after the initial runs when the motor was getting way too hot, but the first run afterwards the speed control died so havent been able to see if these are effective yet.
Image

User avatar
only1jake
100 W
100 W
Posts: 223
Joined: Sep 29, 2009 4:22 am

Re: Dans razor E300

Post by only1jake » Feb 18, 2010 4:15 am

hey,
thats quite a different build than I have seen on e300's, mounting wise. It seems to be pretty strong and its a great build with what you had!! I havent had any exp in rc motors but you should get some mean power out of that motor with the right setup?
Jake
Jake Saunders

Dandaman78
1 mW
1 mW
Posts: 13
Joined: Feb 15, 2010 5:33 am
Location: Tamworth, Australia

Re: Dans razor E300

Post by Dandaman78 » Feb 18, 2010 6:28 am

Thanks Jake, its already got a fair bit of power now but i'm going to try running at higher voltage/lower gearing for more speed / torque when i get the HV controller back

Dan.

User avatar
Kepler
1 GW
1 GW
Posts: 3085
Joined: Nov 08, 2009 9:22 pm
Location: Eastern suburbs Melbourne Australia

Re: Dans razor E300

Post by Kepler » Feb 19, 2010 1:37 am

Looks good Dan. I like your approach. Especially like the way you operate the servo tester. I know your not to worried about damaging the motor but 12S will spoil your fun in a short time, that I am sure of.
Current Rides

Lightest true ebike on the planet: ON ROAD https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=74269
eBoost on facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Eboost/200306283342024/
75 Volt 6 kW FUTR Beta 29'er: OFF ROAD

Dandaman78
1 mW
1 mW
Posts: 13
Joined: Feb 15, 2010 5:33 am
Location: Tamworth, Australia

Re: Dans razor E300

Post by Dandaman78 » Feb 19, 2010 6:28 am

I've considered your advice kepler, i think i'll only add 2 cells to the system when im ready. I'll save 12s for the 80-100 motor one day haha.

Are you able to use the throttleizer just as an amp limiter or does it rely on the throttle input to work properly? I dont like the standard throttle of the e300 much at all. The way my servo tester is geared up could of been the undoing of the esc actually, its just so easy to give it gas!

Dan

User avatar
TylerDurden
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 7543
Joined: Jan 04, 2007 5:50 pm
Location: Wear the fox hat.
Contact:

Re: Dans razor E300

Post by TylerDurden » Feb 19, 2010 8:37 am

FWIW, an outrunner inside a metal shell may have issues:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 3&#p144693

More holes for airflow would help the motor cooling. The ESC will need airflow too.

If you don't already have an IR thermometer, it can help measure heating on individual components.
Have a Nice Day,

TD

Image
___________________________________________________________

FYI: Adding pictures?

Bored?... take a crack at the unanswered posts

Please post your Watts-at-speed in the survey.



Image

User avatar
HAL9000v2.0
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1065
Joined: Apr 14, 2008 6:16 am
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Contact:

Re: Dans razor E300

Post by HAL9000v2.0 » Feb 19, 2010 9:05 am

Great throtle. :D

User avatar
Kepler
1 GW
1 GW
Posts: 3085
Joined: Nov 08, 2009 9:22 pm
Location: Eastern suburbs Melbourne Australia

Re: Dans razor E300

Post by Kepler » Feb 19, 2010 11:24 pm

Dandaman78 wrote:I've considered your advice kepler, i think i'll only add 2 cells to the system when im ready. I'll save 12s for the 80-100 motor one day haha.

Are you able to use the throttleizer just as an amp limiter or does it rely on the throttle input to work properly? I dont like the standard throttle of the e300 much at all. The way my servo tester is geared up could of been the undoing of the esc actually, its just so easy to give it gas!

Dan
It will need a throttle input from Hall effect type throttle as it uses a 0-4.5V input. Hall throttles are cheap though at around $20 - $30 bucks. You can then have the option of a thumb, 1/2 twist or full twist setup. I prefer the 1/2 twist personally.

On other good thing about a Throttleizer is that it has nice big low ESR capacitors on the line input side. This really helps protect the ESC from power spikes. Its advisable to install some extra Caps on the battery side of your ESC when using a servo tester throttle. This will help your ESC survive the torture you are going to putting it through. Pick up some 1000 uf 63V Low ESR Electrolytic capacitors and install them in parallel with the existing caps on the ESC. 2 will do the trick. If you don’t want to solder them directly to the ESC, you could set up simple Y harness on the battery side of the ESC like the picture below.
Attachments
IMG_0469.jpg
IMG_0469.jpg (204.14 KiB) Viewed 5410 times
IMG_0471.jpg
IMG_0471.jpg (132.77 KiB) Viewed 5410 times
Current Rides

Lightest true ebike on the planet: ON ROAD https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=74269
eBoost on facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Eboost/200306283342024/
75 Volt 6 kW FUTR Beta 29'er: OFF ROAD

Dandaman78
1 mW
1 mW
Posts: 13
Joined: Feb 15, 2010 5:33 am
Location: Tamworth, Australia

Re: Dans razor E300

Post by Dandaman78 » Feb 23, 2010 1:16 am

I had a look at the link tyler, i didnt notice anything too unusual with the heat of the outer case but it will be interesting to keep an eye on it when its going again later in the week. I think it will need more holes or a bigger cooling slot to be effective, but it was 10:30 at night when i was out in the shed hacking the current ones in with the angle grinder, I thought that was enough noise for one night lol.

Thanks for the pics kepler, I'll give the y harness a go. I pinched some 33v 1000uf caps off the fried hobbyking ss 90/100 controller so i'll use them for now or untill i turn up the voltage.

Is there a link to a website or an easy way to build some sort of current limiter? An alternative to the throttleizer. Keeping in mind im ok at following instructions but dont know much about circuits. Or i may have read the throttleizer can work with ordinary pots? that way i could just use my current throttle plate with a pot mounted in the position of the servo tester.

Regards,

Dan.

User avatar
Kepler
1 GW
1 GW
Posts: 3085
Joined: Nov 08, 2009 9:22 pm
Location: Eastern suburbs Melbourne Australia

Re: Dans razor E300

Post by Kepler » Feb 23, 2010 3:37 pm

Those caps should be fine. I dont know of a simple current limiting circuit but its worth a google. Problem is the current limit circuit would need to inteface with your servo tester circuit by backing off the throttle when the current level is reached. All doable but out of the reach of most of us tinker's :(
Current Rides

Lightest true ebike on the planet: ON ROAD https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=74269
eBoost on facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Eboost/200306283342024/
75 Volt 6 kW FUTR Beta 29'er: OFF ROAD

Dandaman78
1 mW
1 mW
Posts: 13
Joined: Feb 15, 2010 5:33 am
Location: Tamworth, Australia

Re: Dans razor E300

Post by Dandaman78 » Feb 24, 2010 8:35 pm

I'll see how this new speedy goes and if i dont have any luck then i'll worry haha

Dandaman78
1 mW
1 mW
Posts: 13
Joined: Feb 15, 2010 5:33 am
Location: Tamworth, Australia

Re: Dans razor E300

Post by Dandaman78 » Mar 09, 2010 4:44 am

Pleased to report 150a kforce is holding up, have done some programming on it which has helped and made the throttle response better / smoother.

Settings: Soft Start (3 seconds between 0 and 100% throttle) only works from 0%, any throttle and response is still instant which i like. Has helped tame amps down and more rideable. (default is no soft start)
PWM 24 khz, makes it smoother and less sync loss, ESC does run a little warmer as stated in instructions. Wouldnt use if you dont have fan cooling. (Default 12 khz)
Motor : Standard, the special settings 1 and 2 didnt seem to work well at all with the 63-74-200kv motor (default standard)
Very Heavy Load: Helped with syncing alot. (default normal)
Timing: cant settle on the best, 26 deg gave mad mid range power but alot more sync loss at startup. standard 15 deg is probably the best so far. 0 deg seemed most efficient uphill (guessing off wattmeter only)

With the speed control setup stationary starts are now possible with no loss of sync (90% of the time) provided surface is fairly hard and not too uphill. So the typical environment for this thing, it rides really well.

But now i've cooked the brake haha. New parts on the way : )

User avatar
Grinhill
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 579
Joined: Jan 22, 2009 11:40 pm
Location: Newcastle, Australia

Re: Dans razor E300

Post by Grinhill » Apr 23, 2010 7:53 pm

Nice ride, mate. :D

You'll find that the ESC really warms up (and into the danger zone) with part-throttle and heavy loads, like going slowly uphill.

It will run cooler on full throttle (if you can hold on :twisted: ).

I fully agree with Kepler's advice on keeping the voltage lower, set it up so that full throttle give the speed you are most comfortable with.
1995 Giant Hybrid - Zeta2 with 12V 7AH SLA - removed after one year.
2006 Converted Giant to Geared Brushless Rear Hub with 24V 17AH SLA - bike stolen 2007.
2008 Hardtail MTB Disc Brake - lightweight RC/LiPo system.
Grinhill's Medium-power RC-Motor Hardtail build
The Grinhill Mk2 RC-motor drive
Grinhill III - "Supercommuter" featuring Recumpence RC drive
Grinhilia - my Aprilia RS125 Conversion

User avatar
mwkeefer
10 MW
10 MW
Posts: 2453
Joined: Jun 14, 2009 8:47 am
Location: Malvern, PA USA

Re: Dans razor E300

Post by mwkeefer » Apr 23, 2010 8:59 pm

Dan,

Nice work man!

I have a Razor MX350 dirt bike which I am about to temporarially impart on 2 projects with:

1.) First I have stripped the 6t and freewheeling 64t #25 sprockets and chain from the bike, I have also removed the motor and the controller.

Project #1 is to simply add this as a direct drive to the crank legally powered system using an Astro 3210 on 6S and by adding the freewheeling 64t sprocket directly to the rear 9sp cluster (replacing the 2 largest rear sprockets, leaving me 7 speeds and 31mph at 120 pedal cadence.

Project #2 is more akin with your setup - I will chop the MX350 front fork by about 2 inches (forks and rear link)... I am also going to add a live rear link section (the version I bought for a mere 40.00 doesn't have full sys) and - assuming my above project is done (it will be) I will be replacing the power system in the MX350 with a low powered turnigy and gearing it for 8mph maximum speed. The goal will be for building a small but powerful dirt bike for my 3yr old when he turns 4 in july.

Either way, nice to see what can be done with the electronics and chassis on these Razon mini scooters...

-Mike
Regards,
Mike

{My Rides]
2010 Dahon Jack - GNG v1 - LYEN 6FET - 20/40A - 18S2P10AH - Nom:66.6v,1332w
2004 Hard Rock Pro Disc - Recumpence ms eDrive v4 - Astro 3220 4T - 12S2P16AH - HV110 - Left Side Drive - Gearing: 38mph
Nominal Peak Power @ 60 seconds: 5328 watts - Maximum Power: 49.8v, 120A, 5872w
2010 Downtube 8FH - Stock GNG v1 Stock Controller - EB809XC - 12-16S
2012 Downtube Nova 7spd - Stock GNG v2 - 12S2P10AH - EB809 - 12S-16S - 20A/30A,Nom VCC: 44.4, 888w

Dandaman78
1 mW
1 mW
Posts: 13
Joined: Feb 15, 2010 5:33 am
Location: Tamworth, Australia

Re: Dans razor E300

Post by Dandaman78 » May 01, 2010 1:57 am

Hey Mike,

I HOPE you use a low powered setup, you would have to be a mad man to gear a combo anything like what i have for 8mph and let a 4 yr old loose on it :lol: !!

I think one of those throttleizers could be a good thing for that kind of project. The biggest problem it seems with R/C stuff is taming it. You need big so you dont cook it, but then it has too much go. Unless your into that sort of thing. like i am haha. Or maybe just a mechanical stop would work to limit the max throttle. Actually i think the K-force controllers have an RPM governor mode, that might be worth investigating although i havent tried it on mine.

Grinhill, i haven't noticed the speed control ever being too hot, but i've always had the fan setup on mine. Plus it takes me a minute or so to get to the speedy while i take the lid off, so with the fan going in that time it would loose abit of heat no doubt. I agree with you though its definetly better to be using 100% throttle, part throttle riding makes everything hotter!!

I havent ridden it for a couple of weeks, i took the grubscrews out of the front sprocket about a month ago and lost them, amazingly the sprocket (which i only drilled out with my drill press 8) ) was a good enough fit on the shaft that it wouldnt slip, but its now worked its way in and locked against the front cover. I tryed pulling it off but its being a PITA. Also my brother managed to damage the throttle cable, the bead of solder popped off the end of the cable so that needs fixing too. It was going really well up until then, a while ago me and a couple of mates were riding it around pissed as nits at midnight in one of there backyards, "time trials" haha. The grass was very plush (as we found out!!) it got pretty hot but didnt fry much to my amazement. I won BTW... 8 second lap lol.

keetper
1 µW
1 µW
Posts: 3
Joined: Oct 31, 2011 1:42 am

Re: Dans razor E300

Post by keetper » Nov 03, 2011 3:28 am

"I have had this for about a week, and I LOVE it! It goes up cell phone spy to 15 mph and has 10 inch tires. The tires are made perfectly for a smooth ride. It is veeeery safe, but should not be used by children 11 and younger, for they might crash or do something dangerous.

Post Reply