Preview: Applesawce's build thread

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applesawce
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Preview: Applesawce's build thread

Post by applesawce » Jul 07, 2011 3:09 am

What's up this is going to be my electric motorcycle build thread. Here is the plan:

So I have been interested in electric motorcycles for a couple years. My first and so far only electric bike was a Razor MX500 I moddified three years ago. Now with more cash saved up, I am in the position to build a full sized electric bike. So, I made a budget for this build and it looks something like this;

$4000 Total
$3000 for main parts
$500 or so for shipping
$500 reserve

Parts budget:

1. Motorcycle chassis: Graduation gift from parents (a year in advance!)
2. Motor: ME0913 Brushless double stack $550
3. Batteries: 30 x T50004S-20HC - Turnigy 5000mAh 4S1P 14.8v 20C hardcase $642
4. Controller: Kelly 72701 $995
5. Charger: iCharger 3010B 1000W 10s Balance/Charger $177
6. Throttle: Twist Throttle Cable with 48 Volt LED Meter $10
7. Balancer: Battery Medic $20
8. Thermal lipo bags: $20
9. Monitor: High Current Cycle Analyst: $120
10. Wires+sprockets+chain about: $200
11. Contactor PTX 200 Amp 72VDC Coils SW180 Type On/Off: $80
12. Other: $176

Total: $3000

Shipping cost:

2. $49
3. $286
4. $30
5. $11
6. $7
7. $6
8. $0
9. $15
10. $50
11. $13

Total Shipping: $467

That means I will have $533 left for anything else. Ok good, under budget! Good news!

Here is the potential donor bike http://nanaimo.en.craigslist.ca/mcy/2464036941.html

Here in BC, dual sport converted dirt bikes are illegal on the street. So my only option would be to go for one of those which are already street legal. I have to sort out some registration issues with the guy before I can buy it though.

Oh and something I want to point out before I forget is Hobby King's (or HK) shipping. What is up with that bull46#t? First of all it's hella expensive, second its broken. "You ship 55000mah of battery just fine" states the rule when I enter 11 5000mah Turnigys in my shopping cart. But as I add a charger, suddenly "you have entered 55000mah worth of battery to be shipped. This is over the law limit (or something) and you must ship you order in pieces." WTF?! Kinda loled a bit after that. Did anyone else go through this too?

Charging system:

So as my pack will be configured as a 20s6p pack, I am in a bit of a dillema. First, no commercial smart chargers on the market (that I know of) that will charge that size of a series pack. Second, I can't just split the pack into two 10s6p banks, parallel them to make a 10s12p pack and charge them with a big ass 1000w HK charger because i'm buying the batteries in 4s packs that can't be split into two equal batteries without individually disassembly.

So, my plan is to have a series/parallel switch wiring setup so I can switch the battery from riding mode, 20s6p, to charging mode, 4s30p. So the 1000w HK charger will charge the pack as if it were a massive 4s pack. At 30 charging amps, it would charge the 80% d.o.ded (i said that right, right?) 150ah 4s battery in about 4 hours. I acknowledge that the particular battery has a 5c max charge rate and that i'm not using its full potential but its cool with me because that charging time suits my needs.

The dangers of accidentally flicking the wrong switches at the wrong time are substantial, I know that. But I believe that if I invested enough time and money to design a professional switching system that ensures I never can accidentally leave a series switch closed while I close the open series ones, I will be fine. Plus i've got thermal bags :P

Btw I kind of don't like the bulk charging method as I think that these smart chargers pose less of a risk of failing and are better designed to charge those specific batteries.


Questions;

. How long does it take to ship HK turnigy batteries? I am shipping them to the US not Canada where I live btw.
. Do you see anything major missing from my list (i'm sure there's something)?
. Does anyone see an overpriced item on my list? Please do tell if someone is selling them cheaper than I have listed...
. What do you think of my charging system #coolio or #outofhismind and #chargethatthingoutside and please comment about your opinion if you got one.


I will keep updating when I need to, thanks for your comments!

oh btw here is a pic of the money I got when I sold my 07 Yam ttr230 last week...it is kind of douchy but I never have had so much money in my hands at one time so I had to take a picture. And yes I did roll around in it. And don't come over here and rob my house expecting to get any; I have already deposited it in the RBC bank. All you will be met with is a golf club to the shins :P
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applesawce
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Re: Preview: Applesawce's build thread

Post by applesawce » Jul 07, 2011 10:46 pm

Update--just bought everything! I purchased everything on my list, except for the sprocket, wires and steel, and it came out to $2816.96 CAD! That was $355.96 less than what I thought it was going to be! Woooohoooo! The reason why was because I found out how to order the batteries from a US warehouse rather that the overseas one and it save me about $280 in shipping. The actual shipping cost was really weird though, 1 cent 8) A bunch of stuff is in backorder, I hope it doesn't take long. I should be able to acquire the parts and start the build by the end of the month.

The XR200l in the link above turned out to be a no go because the guy doesn't have any of the legal papers to make it street legal. Darn, I will have to keep looking.

Also on the list of things to do is the series/parallel switch box design. Other than that, the scariest part, which is spending over half my money in one night, is done! Boo ya!

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Re: Preview: Applesawce's build thread

Post by liveforphysics » Jul 07, 2011 10:55 pm

In a proto-TTXGP bike running on 350amps, we couldn't complete 1 lap of Laguna Seca before that motor overheated. The performance was damn soggy up to the point of overheating as well.

I very strongly recommend doing anything and everything you can think of to get as much cooling on that poor motor as possible.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: Preview: Applesawce's build thread

Post by applesawce » Jul 08, 2011 12:38 am

liveforphysics wrote:In a proto-TTXGP bike running on 350amps, we couldn't complete 1 lap of Laguna Seca before that motor overheated. The performance was damn soggy up to the point of overheating as well.

I very strongly recommend doing anything and everything you can think of to get as much cooling on that poor motor as possible.
Darn that doesn't sound good! Did you run the single or double wound motor? I bought the double.

Well my bike won't be made for racing, just commuting to work, school and other stuff...but I do want to rip on it without worrying about the heat issue. I read on the Ripperton thread that the magnets are rated for 150c max; is that right? My plan is to build the cooling system, starting small (ducts) ,then building up (fans and liquid cooling) to as much cooling as I need. I will monitor the core temp, while always staying under 140c or whatever threshold I determine, then track how much I can push the motor until it starts to overheat.

What cooling proved to be the most effective for you in your testing?

This bike is an engineering project. I am not expecting the bike to perform at race levels, but enough for highway speed and strong acceleration. Building an electric motorcycle to developing my engineering skills and to make me stand out in a crowd of prepy kids is the primary goal; making a race machine is second. Cool tho!

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Re: Preview: Applesawce's build thread

Post by liveforphysics » Jul 08, 2011 2:53 am

Yes, the big wide one, the double stator ME0913. It melts down like icecream on a hot day.

Ripperton spent a few grand to get his semi-efficient, and capable of cooling. Custom rotor with cuatom double thick magnets and a custom machined internal impeller and custom case spacer to work wit the thicker magnets.

We didn't bother because for the money it takes to make it work, you can buy 2 agni's and have double the power and better efficiency.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: Preview: Applesawce's build thread

Post by applesawce » Jul 08, 2011 12:58 pm

liveforphysics wrote:Yes, the big wide one, the double stator ME0913. It melts down like icecream on a hot day.

Ripperton spent a few grand to get his semi-efficient, and capable of cooling. Custom rotor with cuatom double thick magnets and a custom machined internal impeller and custom case spacer to work wit the thicker magnets.

We didn't bother because for the money it takes to make it work, you can buy 2 agni's and have double the power and better efficiency.
Yeah I read that he increase the magnets from 7 to 16mm!

That's cool, I wish my work was worth that much :mrgreen:

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Re: Preview: Applesawce's build thread

Post by applesawce » Aug 24, 2011 4:43 am

Lots of parts have showed up! Look they sent me the wrong motor! The wrong motor (right side) is a 1003 or the brushed version. I was kind of bummed when I realized that I got the wrong motor but cloud was cool and sent me the right one. 72v 700amp kelly is very big and robust looking. The cycle analyst is the high amp version. Then there is the tncscooter throttle and some random contactor i forgot the name of! Now i'm just waiting for my charger and battery bags now from hobbyking. Then we should be all good.

I'm amazed at how small those lithiums are. Over 2kw of these are smaller than three of my 18ah AGMs?!?! HOLY SHEEET :mrgreen:
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Re: Preview: Applesawce's build thread

Post by Gordo » Aug 24, 2011 9:36 am

The best, most experienced resource in the country is just up the road from you. They have been quietly building and exporting machines worldwide for 15 years. I have found their prices on everything to be slightly less and NO SHIPPING cost.
http://www.canev.com/
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Re: Preview: Applesawce's build thread

Post by applesawce » Aug 28, 2011 12:30 pm

Gordo wrote:The best, most experienced resource in the country is just up the road from you. They have been quietly building and exporting machines worldwide for 15 years. I have found their prices on everything to be slightly less and NO SHIPPING cost.
http://www.canev.com/
Whoa your right! Cool! I never knew they were there. Does anyone know if a 1990 ZX7's engine is a part of its frame. There's one available in my area. I would consider it if the engine wasn't a part of the frame and removing it wouldn't require extra reinforcements.

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Re: Preview: Applesawce's build thread

Post by Njay » Oct 09, 2011 6:53 am

If you're going brushless, why the contactor? It's usually used with brushed motors only, because if the controller shorts, the DC will try to keep the motor going full speed. On a brushless, if the controller fries the motor will not keep spinning.
Also, why did you choose a 200A version? The contactor must be spec'ed at the maximum battery current you expect to make or break (giving some margin), otherwise the contacts may weld ...
Don't forget the fuse!

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