Electric Honda Solo Build WIP

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Electric Honda Solo Build WIP

Post by PHC » Aug 17, 2011 8:51 pm

I am building a custom motorcycle based on the "Honda Solo 50" design. I hand made the frame in my garage work shop over the last 2 months and I thought some of you might like to see my progress. Here are some pictures,

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Here is a picture of the Honda Solo I am trying to replicate,

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It will have a PERM PRM132 motor, a Alltrax 7234 controller and a 72 Volt Thundersky LiFeP04 battery pack. The forks are from a Honda CB100 and the rear swing arm was converted to monoshock from a Honda CM185. The frame main tube is 2 inch 1/8 wall DOM steel tube and the smaller tubes and support brackets are 4130 Chome Molly Steel.


I will post some build pictures later.

Regards,
Paul

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Re: Electric Honda Solo Build WIP

Post by PHC » Aug 17, 2011 9:40 pm

I went to Kinko's and had a side view picture printed to full size scaled to the front rim diameter. Build Pictures,

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Goodies arrived finally!

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Re: Electric Honda Solo Build WIP

Post by PHC » Aug 17, 2011 10:17 pm

kfong wrote:Nice craftsmanship!
Thanks, I was an aircraft structure specialist in the USAF, but I am just now learning to weld. I did lots of fabrication work in the past so it's nice to know I can still do it when I need to.

Paul

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Re: Electric Honda Solo Build WIP

Post by amberwolf » Aug 18, 2011 2:44 am

I like this so far. I don't think I'd trust my skills to building a motorcycle, but the cargo bike I built has stood up pretty well so far.

BTW, on the new version of my cargobike, some of the small-diameter non-load-bearing tubing is from a futon/daybed exactly like the one in your pictures. ;)
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Re: Electric Honda Solo Build WIP

Post by liveforphysics » Aug 18, 2011 3:31 am

Looking good. What were the stamp-formed pieces on the rear swing-arm assembly from?
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Re: Electric Honda Solo Build WIP

Post by PHC » Aug 18, 2011 7:16 am

Hi liveforphysics,

I used a CM185 swing arm that I modified to monoshock. It saved me alot of work doing it that way and matches the size of the Honda Solo.

Paul

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Re: Electric Honda Solo Build WIP

Post by Gordo » Aug 18, 2011 2:03 pm

PHC wrote:Hi liveforphysics,

I used a CM185 swing arm that I modified to monoshock. It saved me alot of work doing it that way and matches the size of the Honda Solo.

Paul
Looks like a class machine.
I was just poking about trying to confirm that a CM185 was a Honda, and stumbled across this;
http://ca.pricedumper.com/honda+xl+185 Looks like NOS parts at a fair price.
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Re: Electric Honda Solo Build WIP

Post by PHC » Aug 18, 2011 4:23 pm

I ordered many parts off eBay from Classicscooterparts including the new rims and fenders. I have most of the parts I need now, but I still would like a new handlebar. I received the silver powder paint for the frame just now. The next part I need to make is the motor mount for the PRM132. i am still thinking about how to mount the batteries so they are invisible. I have a plastic tank cover from a 1982 Honda Goldwing I got for $10 off eBay coming this week. If the size is right I will hide the controller and possibly some batteries as well. I may get small hard shell saddle bags for the batteries.

Paul

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Re: Electric Honda Solo Build WIP

Post by Ykick » Aug 18, 2011 4:35 pm

PHC wrote:I ordered many parts off eBay from Classicscooterparts including the new rims and fenders. I have most of the parts I need now, but I still would like a new handlebar. I received the silver powder paint for the frame just now. The next part I need to make is the motor mount for the PRM132. i am still thinking about how to mount the batteries so they are invisible. I have a plastic tank cover from a 1982 Honda Goldwing I got for $10 off eBay coming this week. If the size is right I will hide the controller and possibly some batteries as well. I may get small hard shell saddle bags for the batteries.

Paul
Nice work and defintiely will follow your progress. I ride an '81 Goldwing and the "pod" or tank as you call it is very long and wide. Maybe with the dash lid removed it can narrow down to proportions more suited to this project. Eaither way, you'll find the solutions that work for your build.

'never saw this model Honda before your post but I really like the stock Solo, too bad it's not available outside Japan. I'd enjoy a smaller Honda every once in a while.
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Re: Electric Honda Solo Build WIP

Post by oatnet » Aug 18, 2011 4:51 pm

Stunning work!

-JD
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Re: Electric Honda Solo Build WIP

Post by PHC » Aug 18, 2011 10:11 pm

Thanks for all your nice comments. I will post more pictures this weekend after I make the motor mount.

Paul

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Re: Electric Honda Solo Build WIP

Post by Dangle_kt » Aug 19, 2011 6:36 am

Lovely :D

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Re: Electric Honda Solo Build WIP

Post by PHC » Aug 20, 2011 8:49 pm

Here are the pictures of the motor mount I built today. The upper part is not to final size and is not yet attached. I need to make a bracket and weld it to the bike frame to support the upper part of the mount. Its made from 1/4" thick mild steel.
I use the free eMahineShop for design, then I print it out 1:1 and use that to scribe the cut lines onto the metal. Most ink jet or laser printers are accurate to less then .001".

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Re: Electric Honda Solo Build WIP

Post by PHC » Aug 23, 2011 9:56 am

I purchased a silver colored version of this saddle bag set. I will use them to hide the batteries. Its tough to find small hard shell saddle bags in silver, but these look like they will be fine. They are 16X10X6.5" and should hold 2 to 3 batteries each.

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Re: Electric Honda Solo Build WIP

Post by kfong » Aug 23, 2011 10:19 am

I really like the fact that this is looking to be a very light motorcycle. You should get pretty good performance and distance.

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Re: Electric Honda Solo Build WIP

Post by johnrobholmes » Aug 23, 2011 10:26 am

Awesome project! That is my style of bike 8)

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Re: Electric Honda Solo Build WIP

Post by oatnet » Aug 23, 2011 11:06 am

Yeah, I keep looking at this layout, and thinking that is exactly what I would like in a light motorbike. I think the power of the 50cc version wouldn' t have been adequate, but with electric.

I have some balance concerns with the battery weight in Panniers - I think you will underload your front wheel, unless the pack is very light.

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Re: Electric Honda Solo Build WIP

Post by PHC » Aug 23, 2011 1:24 pm

oatnet wrote:Yeah, I keep looking at this layout, and thinking that is exactly what I would like in a light motorbike. I think the power of the 50cc version wouldn' t have been adequate, but with electric.

I have some balance concerns with the battery weight in Panniers - I think you will underload your front wheel, unless the pack is very light.

-JD
I agree so I am going to set them forward of the rear axle. I may put 2 batteries under the fake tank I am going to build. Balance on a small bike is essential so weight distribution is my main concern.

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Re: Electric Honda Solo Build WIP

Post by PHC » Aug 23, 2011 1:32 pm

johnrobholmes wrote:Awesome project! That is my style of bike 8)
If you like the style, but don’t want to build from scratch have a look at the Honda S90 from 1969. It has a very similar layout and is a very small light bike. I considered it before I decided to build the Solo replica. All the replacement parts are available from classicscooterparts on ebay including new wheels, seats handle bars. The frames go for under $75 some times. The great thing is its better then converting a bicycle because it has real brakes and the speedometer is taped off the front wheel. edit: Found one.

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Re: Electric Honda Solo Build WIP

Post by fechter » Aug 23, 2011 2:01 pm

Great build. With that power level, you'll be happy you're running motorcycle tires and brakes. It should be able to really haul ass with the right batteries.
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Re: Electric Honda Solo Build WIP

Post by PHC » Aug 24, 2011 1:55 pm

I just reread the motor specifications. Looks like @ 72 volts it will make 34hp for a short burst. That would be amazing acceleration if geared low. My rear sprocket is 58 teeth and the front is 11 with options over 20 teeth. I may start with a 14 tooth and see how it performs. The batteries will probably hold the motor back since they are like 2C-3C with higher C for short bursts. The rear tire is 18X3.00". Anyone care to calculate the max speed for me with a 180lb bike with a 200lb rider?

Configuration recap:
180 pound bike. (Possibly less since this is a rough estimate)
200 pound rider
rear tire 18 X 3.00" (25.4" diameter X pi 3.14 = 80" approximate per tire rev.)
Rear sprocket 58 teeth
Front sprocket 14 teeth (or more)
Elite Power Solutions GBS Battery 20ah, 2-3C, 6X12.8=72 Volts
GBS Product Specifications:

- Nominal Voltage: 12.8V (4X 3.2 V)
- Nominal Capacity: 20 Ah
- LiFePO4 chemistry
- Operation Voltage Range: 11.2 to 14.4V
- Weight: 3.0 kg or 6.6 lbs
- Dimension: 178X76X165 mm or 7.0X3.0X6.5 in
- Max Charging Current: 3C
- Max Discharge Current: 2C (continuous) / 10C (impulse)
- Cycle Life : >2000 (80%DOD)
- Operating Temperature: -20 to 65 C or -4 to 149 F
- Self Discharge Rate: <3% monthly
- Accessories included: jumpers, bolts, washers, and split washers.
- The 4-cell pack is enclosed in a plastic box.



PRM 132 Motor Specifications

Voltage: 24-72V
Weight: 24.8 lb
Angular-velocity constant: 50.2 rpm/V
Torque constant: 27 ozf·in/A
Terminal resistance: 0.025 Ohm
No-load current: 6A
Rotor Inertia: 1370 oz·in_
Inductance: 19 µH
Continuous current: 110A
10 minute current: 200A
Terminals: 8mm

48V Performance Peak efficiency: 86%
Peak power: 19.1 hp
No-load angular velocity: 2380 r/min
Stall current: 960 A
Stall torque: 25600 ozf·in

72 V Performance Peak efficiency: 88.6% *
Peak power: 34.3 hp
No-load angular velocity: 3590 r/min
Stall current: 1440 A
Stall torque: 38500 ozf·I Voltage 24 36 48 60 72
Current 110 A 110 A 110 A 110 A 110 A
Power 2.2KW 3.5KW 4.7KW 5.97KW 7.22KW
Speed 1080 1700 2300 2870 3480
Torque 20.5Nm 20.5Nm 20.5Nm 20.5Nm 20.5Nm

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Re: Electric Honda Solo Build WIP

Post by PHC » Aug 24, 2011 2:39 pm

Here is what I got in excel not accounting for loss due to friction air resistence etc.

RPM @ 72 Volts, Gear Ratio, Tire inch per rev, Inch per minute, Feet per minute, MPH
3480, 4.142857143 , 80, 67200, 5600, 63.63636364

These numbers are similar to the Zero-S bike so it should be pretty close. They have a larger pack but also more weight.

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Re: Electric Honda Solo Build WIP

Post by oatnet » Aug 24, 2011 3:03 pm

Volts will give calculated unloaded RPMs, but under load you still need watts to achieve higher RPMs and efficiency. While I applaud your use of LiFePO4, as you mention the 2c cont. discharge rate (40a on 20ah cells) on the pack will be an issue. At 72v, that would only give you 2.8kw into your motor. At lower speeds where your motor is, say 50% efficient, that will give you 1.4kw at the shaft - less than 2HP. Maybe that is enough power for a 180lb moto, but I have 70lb ebikes with more.

Which leads me to ask, how will you limit current to keep the batteries at the rated discharge? I don't see a BMS listed, so I assume the controller will draw what it wants. If you put a mere 100a controller on this, you will be pulling 5c continious, which will age the cells pretty fast - you might only get a 100 cycles or so from your pack at that rate. Headways do 5c and are lighter/smaller, a123 prisimatics do 20c+ and are lighter/smaller still.

That s90 frame doesn't inspire me like the beautiful frame you are building now does... Thanks for brightening my world with it!

-JD
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Re: Electric Honda Solo Build WIP

Post by PHC » Aug 24, 2011 5:38 pm

oatnet wrote:Volts will give calculated unloaded RPMs, but under load you still need watts to achieve higher RPMs and efficiency. While I applaud your use of LiFePO4, as you mention the 2c cont. discharge rate (40a on 20ah cells) on the pack will be an issue. At 72v, that would only give you 2.8kw into your motor. At lower speeds where your motor is, say 50% efficient, that will give you 1.4kw at the shaft - less than 2HP. Maybe that is enough power for a 180lb moto, but I have 70lb ebikes with more.

Which leads me to ask, how will you limit current to keep the batteries at the rated discharge? I don't see a BMS listed, so I assume the controller will draw what it wants. If you put a mere 100a controller on this, you will be pulling 5c continious, which will age the cells pretty fast - you might only get a 100 cycles or so from your pack at that rate. Headways do 5c and are lighter/smaller, a123 prisimatics do 20c+ and are lighter/smaller still.

That s90 frame doesn't inspire me like the beautiful frame you are building now does... Thanks for brightening my world with it!

-JD
Thanks for the information. The controller is the Alltrax AXE-7234. Its programmable so I can limit the current draw to a percentage of the max. I don't plan on going full throttle everywhere I drive so wont that be a big factor in how badly I stress the cells? I could also make 2 smaller packs in series parallel. Two 48 volt packs would draw half the current from each pack and double my range and C rate wouldn't it?

http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store ... x_7234.php

Thanks,
Paul

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