its now a e-motorcycle

Show off your E-Scooter or Motorcycle creation here.
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Paul.............D   100 W

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Re: its now a e-motorcycle

Post by Paul.............D » Sep 16 2012 4:10pm

Hi gwhy

What is the sprockets on your first stage reduction i will be using 80/100, what size is the jack shaft bar?. is the chain 8mm i am trying to design a swinging arm with every thing built in you know what for, What do you think to rewinding the motor to 2500rpm.

I am trying to save time as you have tried and tested most options.

Paul

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gwhy!   1 MW

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Re: its now a e-motorcycle

Post by gwhy! » Sep 16 2012 4:52pm

Paul.............D wrote:Hi gwhy

What is the sprockets on your first stage reduction i will be using 80/100, what size is the jack shaft bar?. is the chain 8mm i am trying to design a swinging arm with every thing built in you know what for, What do you think to rewinding the motor to 2500rpm.

I am trying to save time as you have tried and tested most options.

Paul
Hi Paul,
The initial reduction is using 6mm chain and 12t( I think,, but maybe 15t :? I cant remember i will have a look tomorrow) and 40t sprockets. The chain to the wheel is 219 kart chain and sprockets. the JS bar is only 12mm and I dont think it will last to long as on my privious ( homebrew bike ) I bent the 12mm js twice :mrgreen: but so far the 12mm is holding up on with this latest setup , but may go to 14mm to be on the save side. if the motors can be setup for 50rpm/volt that would make things much easier to get things into a smaller package, maybe just re-terminate the motor to wye would be easier and reduce the rpm by a factor of 1.7.

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gwhy!   1 MW

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Re: its now a e-motorcycle

Post by gwhy! » Sep 19 2012 5:24am

Update:
The fitted e-clutch.
Managed to get some peg time on the bike, the clutch works very well :mrgreen:
e-clutch1.jpg
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Im very happy :D and the bike performs better than I can ride it :P

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Paul.............D   100 W

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Re: its now a e-motorcycle

Post by Paul.............D » Sep 19 2012 2:26pm

Its showtime were's the video :D :D

Paul

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Re: its now a e-motorcycle

Post by gwhy! » Sep 19 2012 2:32pm

Paul.............D wrote:Its showtime were's the video :D :D

Paul
video will have to wait till there is some to video it :mrgreen:

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betarambo   10 W

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Re: its now a e-motorcycle

Post by betarambo » Sep 20 2012 9:48pm

Very cool indeed. We need more pictures. I would love to see details of the controller mounting and batteries.

FYI I played around a lot with body panels for my kid's bike. I ended up buying a 4'X8' sheet of ABS plastic. ABS is pretty good for impact resistance and works well with a heat gun. The whole sheet cost like $50 US. I just cut pieces with the jig saw and used the heat gun to shape it. This might work good for yours when you are ready to finish it off.

My choices for the donor bike are either my dad's 2004 Beta Rev-3 or my 2010 Beta Evo. I don't think I can bring myself to tear into the Evo and I will need something each month for the trials while I build the new one. Your point before about Betas having the issue of aluminum frames and integrated gas tank is well taken. I think I might follow your advice from previous posts and sell his bike to fund buying something with a blown motor and a steel frame. That should work good for the first go. If it works out as cool as I think it will then on the next go I could spend a bit more to get a lighter frame and more mdoern suspension.

If it works out well and it becomes my main bike then I should be able to convince my wife to let me spend on it like I normally do on trials bikes. For the price of a new trials bike every other year you can buy a lot of lipos!
Sparky Bikes: Oset dealer stocking 12", 16" and 20" bikes. www.sparkybikes.com
Homebuilt e-trials motorcycle for my kid
Magic Pie II, Lyen Mark II 12 fet, 2.6kW, 60V, 40A, 15s2p lipos
14" rear 16" front motorcycle rims and tires

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grindz145   100 MW

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Re: its now a e-motorcycle

Post by grindz145 » Sep 21 2012 10:50am

Ghwy I just saw your electronic clutch project. Awesome idea! I feel like seasoned riders need the clutch. It also is a way to module the motor more easily right at the beginning of the throttle. I'm definately going to keep my eye open for a trials frame with a bad motor... :mrgreen:

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gwhy!   1 MW

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Re: its now a e-motorcycle

Post by gwhy! » Sep 24 2012 9:11am

The e-clutch needs a bit more adjustment ( getting used to ) but it do work as a real clutch would, the only thing that it lacks is a bit more physical resistance on the lever as its very light. the motors that Im using ( so far ) are working very well with more than enough power for the speed its geared for, but It needs to be geared a little faster to make it comparable with a gas bike which Im hoping that the extra bit of power I can push these motors to it will balance out. its defo interesting to ride :mrgreen:
Thanks for the heads up about the abs, i do need to get the motors covered a little just to stop stones and stuff getting in there.

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Paul.............D   100 W

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Re: its now a e-motorcycle

Post by Paul.............D » Sep 29 2012 4:38pm

Hi gwhy how are you getting on with your e clutch?, does it make a lot of difference in controlabilty

Paul

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gwhy!   1 MW

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Re: its now a e-motorcycle

Post by gwhy! » Sep 29 2012 5:03pm

Hi Paul,
I tried it out with a couple of different settings and I think Its as good as it can get, Im still not 100% happy with the throttle control ( its one of those things I don't think I will ever be 100% happy with ) but it is a massive improvement to what it was as standard. There are still a few things that I would like to try that don't involve to much modification to improve it even more. I hope to get some more peg time on the bike in a real trial environment soon :wink: may even try to get some video.

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Re: its now a e-motorcycle

Post by gwhy! » Oct 02 2012 6:32am

Bike Upate:
just thought I would post a pic up of the bike as it rolls now, I have just bought some abs ( carbon fibre look'e'like ) to try and put some protection around the motors. And I am going to try and make the e-clutch into a adjustable current limit ( instead of just changing the resolution of the throttle ) as I think this will be exactly what I am after ( but I dont know until I try :D ) any feedback/ideas always welcome.
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mk2_nf4.jpg
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grindz145   100 MW

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Re: its now a e-motorcycle

Post by grindz145 » Oct 02 2012 7:42am

Nice! You might want to use the cycle analyst as the current limiter. It is setup to accept an input from a potentiometer and adjust the current limit on the fly. I'm thinking this would be perfect for your e-clutch.

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gwhy!   1 MW

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Re: its now a e-motorcycle

Post by gwhy! » Oct 02 2012 8:19am

grindz145 wrote:Nice! You might want to use the cycle analyst as the current limiter. It is setup to accept an input from a potentiometer and adjust the current limit on the fly. I'm thinking this would be perfect for your e-clutch.

Yes I have though about getting a CA and like you say looks like it will do the trick but at the moment I dont have the ££'s , Im going to try and make my own setup first and see how I get on as I have most of the stuff here to give it a go.

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Re: its now a e-motorcycle

Post by cyclesguff » Oct 02 2012 4:00pm

its now an e-motorcycle has been great to follow and I've finally decided to sell the Beta Rev 3 and go for something that is more of 'project/spares/repair' and then attempt to build an e-trials bike.

On a side note - I called the GasGas importer last week for some info on the TXT-e, they couldn't provide a final price, but said it would be in the region of 7-8k

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Paul.............D   100 W

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Re: its now a e-motorcycle

Post by Paul.............D » Oct 02 2012 4:05pm

Gwhy use square guttering for the ends,then fit two 3.5cfm fans it should keep it nice and cool with vents on the other side for through air
On the trials boj up frame i used a few years back i used the e brake with a resister in for a clutch it was cheap way of doing it at the time.

Paul

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gwhy!   1 MW

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Re: its now a e-motorcycle

Post by gwhy! » Oct 02 2012 5:09pm

cyclesguff wrote:its now an e-motorcycle has been great to follow and I've finally decided to sell the Beta Rev 3 and go for something that is more of 'project/spares/repair' and then attempt to build an e-trials bike.

On a side note - I called the GasGas importer last week for some info on the TXT-e, they couldn't provide a final price, but said it would be in the region of 7-8k
Im gald you like the project and its been a long time getting this far ( lots of trial and error ) but hopefully within the next couple of weeks I should have some solid data about performance, reliability and range ( if the bike performs well and appears to be reliable ) I also have a little modification to add to it that will extend its run time :wink: ) hope it helps anyone else that wants to go down this route for a trials bike.

How do GG expect to sell any TXT-e's if they are going to be nearly twice the price of a regular gas version :? thats maddness..

hope you find the perfect donor bike there are bike to be had just need to be patient .
Paul.............D wrote:Gwhy use square guttering for the ends,then fit two 3.5cfm fans it should keep it nice and cool with vents on the other side for through air
On the trials boj up frame i used a few years back i used the e brake with a resister in for a clutch it was cheap way of doing it at the time.

Paul
I think the square down pipe is around 65mm so it will be a tight fit around the motor ( motor is 63mm ) but I think it would be worth ago at least, the testing I have done so far with bike the motors have remained very cool ( as the power is only used in very small bursts ) so Im not sure I would even need a blower ( I dont really what to put stuff on the ends of the motors as this will stick out beyond the frame and will get damaged with my style of crashing :mrgreen: ) , just a couple of vent holes may be enough ( if not I may have a way of water cooling the motors :wink: ), I will see if I can find a bit of gutting laying about somewhere to give it ago. My e-clutch is basically a variable resistor on a lever but the throttle signal and lever signal needs to be mixed to produce the effect of reducing the throttle resolution without moving the min/max throttle positions, it do work as designed but the control is still a bit twitchy, if you get the wrong lever finger movement in the wrong place it all goes very wrong very quickly :lol: so The plan is to have the e-clutch adjusting the current limit and not adjusting the throttle resolution which should be a lot more forgiving .

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Paul.............D   100 W

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Re: its now a e-motorcycle

Post by Paul.............D » Oct 03 2012 1:00pm

Hi gwhy use guttering not down pipe, like in the pictures below make it in 2 halfs it will cover both motors. Some times i dont explain my self very well :oops: you can shape it easy with a heat gun

Paul
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gwhy!   1 MW

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Re: its now a e-motorcycle

Post by gwhy! » Oct 04 2012 6:36am

Paul.............D wrote:Hi gwhy use guttering not down pipe, like in the pictures below make it in 2 halfs it will cover both motors. Some times i dont explain my self very well :oops: you can shape it easy with a heat gun

Paul

No Worries mate, I dont always explain myself to well either :D ,

I have had a look at it and I dont think the guttering will do the trick in my case :? there isnt enough room to to do a tidy job with the guttering so I will have to custom bend some abs to the exact shape that I need to be able to fit. If the bike works out ok I will re-do the motor mounting plates and this will alow me to move the motors forward a bit and put the hallsensors at the back end of the motors this will free up enough room to make some very nice carbon fibre ( look-e-like ) covers that will cover the whole transmission. I have fitted a towbar to my car now and fitted my old trials bike rack onto it so I will be able to transport it a bit easier and when my mate gets back from Germany he said I can put the bike on his dyno to run some test on it Im also going to try and arrange for another mate of mine to bring his 2.9 sherco along aswell so I can get some direct comparisons between power/torque and speed, most trials are ridden in 1st,2nd and 3rd gear ( they are very high ratios ) and I am hoping that 3rd gear on the gas bike will only be able to run at about 30mph if this is the case then my bike is in with a shout :twisted:

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Paul.............D   100 W

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Re: its now a e-motorcycle

Post by Paul.............D » Oct 14 2012 1:12pm

How is the e clutch going mate have you cracked it. Have you managed any vids of the beast yet.

Paul

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gwhy!   1 MW

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Re: its now a e-motorcycle

Post by gwhy! » Oct 14 2012 4:24pm

Paul.............D wrote:How is the e clutch going mate have you cracked it. Have you managed any vids of the beast yet.

Paul
Hiya mate, no still no vid yet, Im still playing around with the clutch setup, but Im getting there :mrgreen:


I have now implemented a basic current limit clutch control ( instead of speed based clutch control ) and Im pleased to say this is the best way to go for anyone wanting very good throttle control with a very powerful, twitchy bike . The circuit I have been playing with is based around this http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... rent+limit with some of my own modifications and still a little more tweeking to do to get it 100%.

I should have the new electronics sorted over the next couple of days. Then I should be able to start thinking about getting some video :D

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Re: its now a e-motorcycle

Post by gwhy! » Oct 19 2012 12:05pm

just a bit of cross reference as regards getting the current limiter working well ( better than posting the same info in both threads) http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 3&start=45

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gwhy!   1 MW

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Re: its now a e-motorcycle

Post by gwhy! » Oct 31 2012 4:11pm

:mrgreen:
it lives, and here is a bit of a video still of it being used in a soak test.
0001.jpg
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All I can say about it is it was a very long soak test, 2-3 hours of nearly non-stop riding and lots of good valid data was collected.

PS its not me riding it..

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gwhy!   1 MW

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Re: its now a e-motorcycle

Post by gwhy! » Nov 02 2012 8:00am

Update on the on-the-fly current limiter:

The electronics works near 100% perfect, I have one small addition that I am going to add that will give it that extra few % . But now It have high lighted issues with the throttle and clutch lever. The throttle is a magura pot throttle and has confirmed my suspicions that a pot throttle on a very twitchy bike will just cause even more twitchyness due to pot noise, wear and tear , and this is the same for the mechanical linkage for the clutch lever that I have made ( it rotates a pot ) , so Now the plan is to be able to use a 100% proper cable throttle body and the clutch lever but instead of turning pots I am going to try setting it up with linear hall sensors and see if this improves things a little more.

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Re: its now a e-motorcycle

Post by gwhy! » Nov 05 2012 5:03pm

Update: Throttle and clutch.
I have made a start on the mechanical side of interfacing the cables to the linear hall sensors. The action of the throttle is very smooth and snaps back very nice 8)
throt1.jpg
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I will try and get the hall sensors and magnets mounted tomorrow . The throttle at the moment has around a 180 degree rotation which is much, much better than the 80 degree or so of a magura pot throttle or a e-bike throttle, so this will ( I hope ) increase the control even more.

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Re: its now a e-motorcycle

Post by bzhwindtalker » Nov 06 2012 3:22pm

Looks very nice! I'm still wainting for some video of that twin 63-74 mistery bike :)

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