Aprilia RS125 conversion, The Jozzbike

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Malcolm
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Re: Aprilia RS125 conversion, The Jozzbike

Post by Malcolm » May 12, 2008 2:23 am

Steve
Thanks for the video. So if I understand right you've now got 30 Ah of Lifebatt and 20 Ah of A123 for a total of 50 Ah at 72V? I just turned the colour of your bike mate. :D I'm looking forward to hearing how things go with the regen controller. It should be very effective with those high-rate cells.

What's you final gear ratio now, did you change it to get to 80 mph?

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Re: Aprilia RS125 conversion, The Jozzbike

Post by deecanio » May 12, 2008 4:34 am

Hi Guys,

where the hell are you getting all these batts from ? :evil:
I'll have to have a look at the vid when i get home - yes please do take some more film when your out on it next :)
50ah :shock: ??? how far would that get you mate? a fair way i imagine, thats some awesome capacity on an already very impressive bike - do you think the regen will be worthwhile?
Anyway still looking for some suitable donor cells for my pack - went for a blast yesterday and had a great ride :) im waiting on mark to see what to do with my 24's but are you still ok to take a look at my motor?

cheers


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Re: Aprilia RS125 conversion, The Jozzbike

Post by Jozzer » May 12, 2008 5:57 am

Nooo, not 50, 40AH. 10AH of A123's and 30AH Lifebatts.
THe extra speed just takes a good run...I wasn't pushing hard enough before:P Gearing is still 13/47. Since I added the 2nd half of the battery pack the voltage sags less, I suppose the extra few volts made for a few MPH:) Best range run yet yeilded 37 miles..
Let me know if you want a couple of red stickers for the greenfaces :D

Deec, course I'll look at it , I showed you mine after all :lol:
Mazda MX-5. 300KW power. Soliton 1 controller, 11" Kostov motor, 20KW/H Turnigy Lipo for 60-100 miles range. 120mph top speed.
Hudson Kindred Spirit 3 wheeler. Twin Agni setup, 300KG 80KW. 100mph top speed (maybe more, but no-one has the guts to try!)
Aprilia RS125, Agni motor, 600A 96v Kelly controller, 6kw/h pack
Dual Agni Ducati.
Countless ebikes and trikes..
http://www.Jozztek.com

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Re: Aprilia RS125 conversion, The Jozzbike

Post by deecanio » May 12, 2008 6:49 am

Hi Mate,

superb - im dead set on fixing my current puma - its soo surprising how my mood and opinion sways from ride to ride.
After last ride i was really down, to the point i was going to ditch the project again!! :roll: then yesterday evening i took the kona out for a blast and rode my usual trails which have dried out after a weeks excellent wheather - before i went i put on some new parts - a 42t front sprocket (mountable as either centre or outside ring) i mounted in the centre as it is bang in line with my 17t rear and also fitted a new bashguard, same E13 as before but bigger - well superb!!! the new front ring was a fsa and the teeth were slightly higher than the old 32t middle ring, also took off the indside 22t as i'll never use it.
Not one chain slip :) in fact i found that i could smash the pedals right from go to about 19mph, much much better - the setup was absolutely perfect for the trails - with a little pedal power (with motor) i found i covered 10 miles with only 4 ah used :) and had a complete blast - the kona was ripping through the trails and i was getting air/wheelies over nearly every bump - left me with a face like this :mrgreen:
awesome, after being down about my bke i was again inspired - i had a few ratcheting gears on the motor but i'm really close to eliminating them with better throttle control and weight distribution - i didn't take my camera just a set of keys and i think that helped as i just concentrated on riding as hard as i could through the forest, it was ace :)
Still want to go to 24's and keep the power i have so im thinking i'll ask Joz to look at my motor and then get a new pack of 123's or lifes's (maybe 123's 100v :twisted: ).
Anyway will get the motor down to you soon mate - this bike will be fooking awesome when done :)


Cheers Joz



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Re: Aprilia RS125 conversion, The Jozzbike

Post by Jozzer » May 12, 2008 7:29 pm

Thanks for that Bikeraider, do you have the LEV model or the ebike model? They reckon they are OK to 130NM..
I was really looking forward to that too. They are keen that thier product is scaleable, so sooner or later (if not already) there will be a product for us!
I've got a line of communication open with them at the moment, I'll ask more question!

So, to get this right, If you try to set it to a high gear, ie. go faster, it slips? Does it start slipping after the 1:1 stage? I ask because it would still be usefull "change down" for more torque and slide back up to get the current 80mph.
Mazda MX-5. 300KW power. Soliton 1 controller, 11" Kostov motor, 20KW/H Turnigy Lipo for 60-100 miles range. 120mph top speed.
Hudson Kindred Spirit 3 wheeler. Twin Agni setup, 300KG 80KW. 100mph top speed (maybe more, but no-one has the guts to try!)
Aprilia RS125, Agni motor, 600A 96v Kelly controller, 6kw/h pack
Dual Agni Ducati.
Countless ebikes and trikes..
http://www.Jozztek.com

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Re: Aprilia RS125 conversion, The Jozzbike

Post by Jozzer » May 15, 2008 7:38 am

Sorry to hear that BR, I hope I have better luck! I feel I should try one out firsthand despite your bad results, its even possible yours is a faulty unit I guess, and I must know for sure!

Steve
Mazda MX-5. 300KW power. Soliton 1 controller, 11" Kostov motor, 20KW/H Turnigy Lipo for 60-100 miles range. 120mph top speed.
Hudson Kindred Spirit 3 wheeler. Twin Agni setup, 300KG 80KW. 100mph top speed (maybe more, but no-one has the guts to try!)
Aprilia RS125, Agni motor, 600A 96v Kelly controller, 6kw/h pack
Dual Agni Ducati.
Countless ebikes and trikes..
http://www.Jozztek.com

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Re: Aprilia RS125 conversion, The Jozzbike

Post by fechter » May 15, 2008 8:03 am

There might be a way to tighten the rollers in a Nuvinci if it isn't covered by warranty.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Aprilia RS125 conversion, The Jozzbike

Post by Jozzer » May 15, 2008 9:10 pm

I fear you may be right BR, though if the thing worked in all ratio's then I could run shallower gearing and reduce the tourque at the input.
With the controller I'm playing with at the moment it feels like it needs gearing less in any case:)

THey have been asking what I would like out of a nuvinci hub.....I'll point out that a bit bigger and stronger might be nice :twisted:
Mazda MX-5. 300KW power. Soliton 1 controller, 11" Kostov motor, 20KW/H Turnigy Lipo for 60-100 miles range. 120mph top speed.
Hudson Kindred Spirit 3 wheeler. Twin Agni setup, 300KG 80KW. 100mph top speed (maybe more, but no-one has the guts to try!)
Aprilia RS125, Agni motor, 600A 96v Kelly controller, 6kw/h pack
Dual Agni Ducati.
Countless ebikes and trikes..
http://www.Jozztek.com

Mikey
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Re: Aprilia RS125 conversion, The Jozzbike

Post by Mikey » May 23, 2008 4:15 am

Guys,

Motorcycle engineer chiming in here :roll:

To get a swift 125cc scooter like take off, you need a fairly high stall torque (a Honda SH has somthing like 283Nm at the rear axle at the clutch stall point).

This is what you need to get off the line like that.

As a ratio change device, It should be before the final reduction, if it's rated to 130Nm then it won't do it. Gear it to the motor so that the 3:1 reduction comes after, giving 390Nm torque capabilty at the rear axle.

this is the reason why scooter are so nippy with camparatily small engines.

A killer app would be an itegrated motor /reduction. high eff. and killer off the line drive!!!

Need to work out if the costs are lower doing this or pumping the motor / controller / battery for monster stall torque. Today it would probably lean to the ratio change device???

Hope this helps,

Ciao,

Mike

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Re: Aprilia RS125 conversion, The Jozzbike

Post by HAL9000v2.0 » May 23, 2008 4:30 am

I am thinking to put variomatic system from Italjet formula 125. But without centrifugal regulator. Instead of that just put lever to change ratio..

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Miles
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Re: Aprilia RS125 conversion, The Jozzbike

Post by Miles » May 23, 2008 5:02 am

Mike,

What you say is true, but wouldn't a gear box with more torque handling ability, run at the end of the drive, be a bit more efficient?

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Re: Aprilia RS125 conversion, The Jozzbike

Post by Jozzer » May 24, 2008 4:29 pm

bikeraider wrote:Hi Jozzer,

My Nuvinci Hub is model N171B, my current set up is 15T/80T on chain # 35. Yes when I exceed the 1:1 stage the hub slips very easily. To correct this I need to release the throttle and change the Nuvinci on a lowerest "gear".

Then i try to keep the same speed and i change the Nuvinci on the highest "gear" i'm not turning it to fast otherwise it slip again. As another test i change the current output to 120 Amps max on the Alltrax 4834 controller and it slip on every "gear" if try to turn the throttle too fast. It also slips in the "moped" mode on the highest "gear" mode, if Throttle is applied to fast but to fast=normal throttle applied for any motorcycle. Well is really hard to change the gear on the Nuvinci without slipping at low, midle or high gear you have to be very careful to do it.

I take a closer look to this thread to fix my issue with this Nuvinci. Your motorcycle is really, cool!

I hope it's help you, have a nice day, and please excuse my English!
Bikeraider
Hey BR, your hub model isn't the LEV model, but the one for bicycles. http://www.staton-inc.com/Details.asp?ProductID=3216
THere is a model N170s also, the LEV model. Looks like I might have to try one after all! :D

Steve
Mazda MX-5. 300KW power. Soliton 1 controller, 11" Kostov motor, 20KW/H Turnigy Lipo for 60-100 miles range. 120mph top speed.
Hudson Kindred Spirit 3 wheeler. Twin Agni setup, 300KG 80KW. 100mph top speed (maybe more, but no-one has the guts to try!)
Aprilia RS125, Agni motor, 600A 96v Kelly controller, 6kw/h pack
Dual Agni Ducati.
Countless ebikes and trikes..
http://www.Jozztek.com

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Re: Aprilia RS125 conversion, The Jozzbike

Post by Miles » May 24, 2008 4:49 pm

Jozzer wrote: Hey BR, your hub model isn't the LEV model, but the one for bicycles. http://www.staton-inc.com/Details.asp?ProductID=3216
THere is a model N170s also, the LEV model. Looks like I might have to try one after all! :D
Steve
It's the same basic hub, Steve.

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Re: Aprilia RS125 conversion, The Jozzbike

Post by Jozzer » May 24, 2008 8:39 pm

Do you know that for a fact Miles, or you just suspect that because the spec sheets are the same? I'm still wondering if theres not a misprint envolved.. They told me though that it had recently performed well on a 50HP dyno test, using a 6000rpm motor. Anyone care to do the math on what that means torque wise? :roll:
On the aprilia with gearing as shallow as 33% (15/45) then torque is magnified by 3, which leaves it within specs. (38nm x 3 = 114nm at hub?). THis would give me a lowest "gear" @ 45MPH @max motor rpm, and a highest of 161mph (yikes). Obviously I dont make best use of the nuvinci's potential, but I would gain a fair advantage over my current gearing.
Mazda MX-5. 300KW power. Soliton 1 controller, 11" Kostov motor, 20KW/H Turnigy Lipo for 60-100 miles range. 120mph top speed.
Hudson Kindred Spirit 3 wheeler. Twin Agni setup, 300KG 80KW. 100mph top speed (maybe more, but no-one has the guts to try!)
Aprilia RS125, Agni motor, 600A 96v Kelly controller, 6kw/h pack
Dual Agni Ducati.
Countless ebikes and trikes..
http://www.Jozztek.com

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Re: Aprilia RS125 conversion, The Jozzbike

Post by Miles » May 25, 2008 1:32 am

No. It's true, I don't (I should have written "seems to be") I was just going by the spec. Could be a misprint, as you say, I guess.

For all I know, they could have increased the pre-load and lowered the efficiency for the LEV version - seems pretty unlikely, though....

We really need some figures for the efficiency of the NuVinci, so that we can judge whether its worth using in a particular case, or not....

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Re: Aprilia RS125 conversion, The Jozzbike

Post by Jozzer » May 25, 2008 7:44 am

Idd, they don't offer very complete specs. Testing required :mrgreen:
Mazda MX-5. 300KW power. Soliton 1 controller, 11" Kostov motor, 20KW/H Turnigy Lipo for 60-100 miles range. 120mph top speed.
Hudson Kindred Spirit 3 wheeler. Twin Agni setup, 300KG 80KW. 100mph top speed (maybe more, but no-one has the guts to try!)
Aprilia RS125, Agni motor, 600A 96v Kelly controller, 6kw/h pack
Dual Agni Ducati.
Countless ebikes and trikes..
http://www.Jozztek.com

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Re: Aprilia RS125 conversion, The Jozzbike

Post by Miles » May 25, 2008 7:55 am

Absolutely :mrgreen:

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Re: Aprilia RS125 conversion, The Jozzbike

Post by Miles » May 26, 2008 7:40 am

bikeraider,

I can imagine how the efficiency losses & weight of the NuVinci might outbalance what you gain from it.

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Re: Aprilia RS125 conversion, The Jozzbike

Post by Jozzer » May 26, 2008 8:19 am

Which sprocket gearings did you try BR? with a shallow gearing it is possible to not overload the nuvinci's 130nm spec, and still gain a gearing advantage over stock.
THe advantages if it works are well worth the weight (not that much, if I can live with the same weight in a puma motor on a bicycle frame, then it wont be noticeable on a 130kg motorcycle).

I won't try it unless I can get some confirmation that there ARE some differences between the LEV model, and your bicycle designed model...
Mazda MX-5. 300KW power. Soliton 1 controller, 11" Kostov motor, 20KW/H Turnigy Lipo for 60-100 miles range. 120mph top speed.
Hudson Kindred Spirit 3 wheeler. Twin Agni setup, 300KG 80KW. 100mph top speed (maybe more, but no-one has the guts to try!)
Aprilia RS125, Agni motor, 600A 96v Kelly controller, 6kw/h pack
Dual Agni Ducati.
Countless ebikes and trikes..
http://www.Jozztek.com

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Re: Aprilia RS125 conversion, The Jozzbike

Post by Jozzer » Jun 30, 2008 11:50 am

Woohoo! 1000 miles today! Cycle Analyst says 1001 miles, 1331 AH (95kw/h). At nighttime rates of £0.06 per kw/h this has cost around £5.70 ($3)!
This makes the average economy figure 95wh/mile. I've seen it as low as 75wh/m, and as high as 145wh/m.
Hmm, £5.70 isn't far off the going rate for a gallon of petrol round here, which would have gotton the original ICE engine around 35-40 miles I believe :lol:
That makes my bike some 20X cheaper to run 8)

Kelly's regen controller seems to have added around 5% more range per kwh. Not a huge amount, but every bit helps! (this would be equivilant to 144wh, or 4 lifebatts at some £100 and another kilo of portage, so I guess it was well worth the extra cost of controller!)
More pics/vids soon! (time for promo's for my business website!)

Steve
Mazda MX-5. 300KW power. Soliton 1 controller, 11" Kostov motor, 20KW/H Turnigy Lipo for 60-100 miles range. 120mph top speed.
Hudson Kindred Spirit 3 wheeler. Twin Agni setup, 300KG 80KW. 100mph top speed (maybe more, but no-one has the guts to try!)
Aprilia RS125, Agni motor, 600A 96v Kelly controller, 6kw/h pack
Dual Agni Ducati.
Countless ebikes and trikes..
http://www.Jozztek.com

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Re: Aprilia RS125 conversion, The Jozzbike

Post by bquick » Jul 01, 2008 7:21 am

Steve,

I just finished my 250 Ninja conversion. It's similar to yours. It's got a Perm132, Kelly Controller, Headway LiFePO4, 64V, 40AH. I'm currently running 13/60 #41 sprockets which gives me a top speed of about 47 mph. With taller gearing, it will do 60 mph.

My question is this: How hot does your Perm 132 motor get? I live at the top of a big hill and after I climb it, my motor will be too hot to hold my hand on. I'm just wondering what your experience has been.

- Brad

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Re: Aprilia RS125 conversion, The Jozzbike

Post by Jozzer » Jul 01, 2008 10:40 am

Congrats Brad...feels nice doesnt it?

So far motor temp hasn't exceeded 70C. I have a safetly cutout installed to trip the contactor at 80C.
A 3" bilge fan will help your problem. I have one installed, but rarely need it. It particularly helps when the bike is moving slow/traffic/after a thrash.
Whilst the bike is moving it gets loads of airflow over the motor...
Good luck!

Steve
Mazda MX-5. 300KW power. Soliton 1 controller, 11" Kostov motor, 20KW/H Turnigy Lipo for 60-100 miles range. 120mph top speed.
Hudson Kindred Spirit 3 wheeler. Twin Agni setup, 300KG 80KW. 100mph top speed (maybe more, but no-one has the guts to try!)
Aprilia RS125, Agni motor, 600A 96v Kelly controller, 6kw/h pack
Dual Agni Ducati.
Countless ebikes and trikes..
http://www.Jozztek.com

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Re: Aprilia RS125 conversion, The Jozzbike

Post by GGoodrum » Sep 17, 2008 8:20 pm

I just read through all 8 pages of this. I hadn't seen the thread before, so I hadn't seen what all went into this. I'm very envious of your setup. :) I definitely would love to do something similar, but right now, I just don't have much time. Anyway, since it has been awhile, are they any updates to report?

-- Gary

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Re: Aprilia RS125 conversion, The Jozzbike

Post by Jozzer » Sep 18, 2008 6:41 am

Yes indeed Gary. I'll be making some more video next month with Andy Marsh (evmotorcycles.org) to log progress.

The Perm motor let go of one of its armature clips, I suspect because of poor constuction. It seems the offending clip was not soldered properly in place.
THough the Perm is repairable, I have replaced it with a reinforced AgniMotor, that Cedric Lynch assures me will manage close to 20HP continuous and 40HP peak.
So far its working very well indeed, it is noticeably more efficient than the Perm motor, I get slightly better accelleration than before, with the same top speed (80mph).
Right now, I am contemplating what to do next, either add a second motor to the Aprillia, and take voltage up to 90v (Agnimotor is good to 6000rpm), or, start prepping the DUcati Supersport that is sitting in the workshop for dual motors and leave the aprilia as is. In any case, I will be rebuilding the aprilia's battery boxes with alluminium, and tidying the wiring. At some point Teh Jozzbike must be sold on to pay for the next project....

Cant remember if this video has been posted here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMaI73hSv7I
Interview with Andy Marsh a couple of months ago.

Onwards and upwards...


Steve
Mazda MX-5. 300KW power. Soliton 1 controller, 11" Kostov motor, 20KW/H Turnigy Lipo for 60-100 miles range. 120mph top speed.
Hudson Kindred Spirit 3 wheeler. Twin Agni setup, 300KG 80KW. 100mph top speed (maybe more, but no-one has the guts to try!)
Aprilia RS125, Agni motor, 600A 96v Kelly controller, 6kw/h pack
Dual Agni Ducati.
Countless ebikes and trikes..
http://www.Jozztek.com

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Re: Aprilia RS125 conversion, The Jozzbike

Post by pgt400 » Sep 18, 2008 6:50 am

Nice build! Where did you buy the Agnimotor? I have the 72v Mars motor. Would like to go the 84 volts but Mars doesn't recomend. I think we have the same controllers Kelly 72 volt, 400 amp. Not sure if this will take 84 as well.

Phil
03' Ninja EX250, Agni #95 reinforced, 25S1P 40ah CALB Lifepo4, Mini-BMS.
05' Mongoose 20" BMX, Golden Hub Motor, 48 volts @ 9ah, A123's, Signalab BMS.
http://www.evalbum.com/1955
http://www.evalbum.com/3337

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