YZF600R Thundercat EV

Show off your E-Scooter or Motorcycle creation here.

Re: Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:37 pm

Here is a picture of my 12V circuit
12V circuit.png
12V circuit
(74.18 KiB) Downloaded 13 times


72V Circuit
72V circuit.png
72V circuit
(51.49 KiB) Downloaded 13 times


and Battery layout
Battery layout.png
Battery layout
(78.89 KiB) Downloaded 13 times
.

The busbars are being made for me by a bus bar manufacturing company, I was going to order some from Jozztek but they would not have been long enough.

I now have pretty much all the bits, apart from the battery box to start piecing the bike together.
YZF600R EV
20S14P 70Ah LiPo pack
72V 600A Controller
User avatar
Bernel
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:33 pm
Location: Peterborough, England

Re: Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:49 pm

I thought I would post some pictures of where I am with the build, here is the left hand side view
yzf33.jpg
LHS
yzf33.jpg (120.64 KiB) Viewed 2672 times
and the right hand side view
yzf34.jpg
RHS
yzf34.jpg (107.92 KiB) Viewed 2672 times

The battery tray will be welded to the frame where the engine mounts used to be and bolted to the two lower beams of angle.

My bus bars have been ordered and delivery is expected in 2 weeks and my grant for an EVSE has been approved. I am now waiting for an engineer to make contact to arrange installation.
Last edited by Bernel on Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
YZF600R EV
20S14P 70Ah LiPo pack
72V 600A Controller
User avatar
Bernel
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:33 pm
Location: Peterborough, England

Re: Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:52 pm

My bus bars arrived which I designed myself, they are made from 1/2" square copper bar and 10" long. 4mm holes have been drilled out to accommodate the conectors.
This is what they look like with the connectors in
busbar 3.jpg
busbar 3.jpg (7.88 KiB) Viewed 2596 times

and below a close up.
busbar 1.jpg


The bus bar company did an excellent job and I'm pleased with the results, now I need to get the connectors braized to the bus bars and get my battery box to be fabricated.
YZF600R EV
20S14P 70Ah LiPo pack
72V 600A Controller
User avatar
Bernel
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:33 pm
Location: Peterborough, England

Re: Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:01 pm

Pod Point Installed today free of charge.
pp1.jpg
Pod point
pp1.jpg (5.95 KiB) Viewed 2562 times


proximity to bike
pp2.jpg
Location to bike
pp2.jpg (7.44 KiB) Viewed 2562 times


and circuit breaker in consumer unit
pp3.jpg
Consumer unit
pp3.jpg (5.12 KiB) Viewed 2562 times


Nice job done as well, now I need to buy the socket for the bike. My HVC/LVC breaker and 5S HVC/LVC boards arrived today as well, they are really tiny. Now where is my battery box? I am getting quite close to having everything ready for connection and testing. Hopefully my next post will see some movement on the bike build and perhaps a spinning rear wheel.
YZF600R EV
20S14P 70Ah LiPo pack
72V 600A Controller
User avatar
Bernel
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:33 pm
Location: Peterborough, England

Re: Thundercat EV

Postby Idontwanttopedal » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:34 pm

Hi nice build where in uk are you I'm in Essex. I'm thinking of turning my zx6r b1h into ev and the gearbox seleted two get at once at 60mph. I kept it up but totalled gearbox. Got one prob with my build planing on doing work out only get around 30ah
Idontwanttopedal
1 kW
1 kW
 
Posts: 472
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:39 pm
Location: Essex uk

Re: Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:42 pm

Idontwanttopedal wrote:Hi nice build where in uk are you I'm in Essex. I'm thinking of turning my zx6r b1h into ev and the gearbox seleted two get at once at 60mph. I kept it up but totalled gearbox. Got one prob with my build planing on doing work out only get around 30ah

Thanks for the comments, I am based in Cambridgeshire. There are not a lot of us in the UK.
YZF600R EV
20S14P 70Ah LiPo pack
72V 600A Controller
User avatar
Bernel
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:33 pm
Location: Peterborough, England

Re: Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:48 pm

John in CR wrote:Do you already have your batteries? With a pack that size consisting of cells of a chemistry where an issue with 1 cell can cause a thermal runaway of the entire pack in less than a minute, be sure you understand the precautions required. It boils down to making sure no faulty cells make it into the pack, and make sure each cell can neither be discharged to too low a voltage or charged to too high a voltage, and they will serve you well.

Can't wait to see pics.

John

Hi John,
I have worked out how to reply to individuals, yes I have some batteries 8 LiPo's which will be 4 on parallel. I have the correct charger and balance boards, I will build the pack up as finances allow.
YZF600R EV
20S14P 70Ah LiPo pack
72V 600A Controller
User avatar
Bernel
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:33 pm
Location: Peterborough, England

Re: Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:39 am

Bus bar connectors now soldered, Jozzer was a great help, we exchanged some emails about how to solder these connectors to the copper bar.

JOZZER YOU ARE A STAR AND GENUINE ALL ROUND NICE GUY.
bus bar soldered.jpg
Bus bars soldered
bus bar soldered.jpg (15.72 KiB) Viewed 2574 times


I only ruined one bullet connector in the process, note there are actually 5 bus bars the positive terminal with the male connectors is not pictured.

AAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!
My Turnigy 5000mAh are 5.5mm not 4mm. I have to de solder, re drill, re order and re solder now. That put a downer on my day.
Last edited by Bernel on Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:49 am, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
YZF600R EV
20S14P 70Ah LiPo pack
72V 600A Controller
User avatar
Bernel
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:33 pm
Location: Peterborough, England

Re: Thundercat EV

Postby Jay64 » Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:50 am

Yeah, Jozzer is definitely a great resource for this community and a stand up guy.

That sucks about the connectors being the wrong size.
Johnson64.Com "The stone age didn't end because we ran out of stones."
EV Bikes:
'13 Zero S 11.4kwh.
GS500, ME0913, Sevcon Size 6 Controller, 90v40ah Lipo, GSXR suspension..
'87 Hurricane 600, ME0709, 48v/50a SLA, Kelly KD72400, Magura Throttle, High Current Cycle Analyst.
http://www.evalbum.com/2275
Raleigh beach cruiser: 9C rear hub, stock controller, 48v10ah lithium, Cycle Analyst.
Phat Chopper: 9C front hub, stock controller, 48v12ah a123s, Cycle Analyst.
User avatar
Jay64
10 MW
10 MW
 
Posts: 2309
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:03 pm
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida

Re: Thundercat EV

Postby John in CR » Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:14 am

Before you reorder think about doing only 2 bus bars, your positive and negative...less cost, less work, less weight, less risk of a short. Simply plug the packs to each other in series. Your balancing board will create the parallel structure for you that you need at the cell level, not the Turnigy pack level. The bus bars in the middle of the pack don't accomplish anything.

The motorcycle section of the forum doesn't get a lot of action. Before proceeding I think you should have the guys in the battery section go over your pack and offer suggestions about how to best set up to monitor and protect your pack, as well as make it convenience to balance.

John
John in CR
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 13682
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 12:58 am
Location: Paradise

Re: Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:12 pm

John in CR wrote:Before you reorder think about doing only 2 bus bars, your positive and negative...less cost, less work, less weight, less risk of a short. Simply plug the packs to each other in series. Your balancing board will create the parallel structure for you that you need at the cell level, not the Turnigy pack level. The bus bars in the middle of the pack don't accomplish anything.

The motorcycle section of the forum doesn't get a lot of action. Before proceeding I think you should have the guys in the battery section go over your pack and offer suggestions about how to best set up to monitor and protect your pack, as well as make it convenience to balance.

John

Hi John,
You have a very good point, I mapped your suggestion out as an option before and I will probably go down this route. I had already ordered some 5.5mm connectors but only 9 pairs which will be enough. That leaves me with spare bus bars for my next bike build. I thing I went for the current design based on Methods pdf which I downloaded from Jozzer's website.

Thanks for the heads up though.

Bernel
YZF600R EV
20S14P 70Ah LiPo pack
72V 600A Controller
User avatar
Bernel
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:33 pm
Location: Peterborough, England

Re: Thundercat EV

Postby John in CR » Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:10 pm

I wish I had read your thread sooner.

I like the new plan better because you can also more safely have the packs "prove" themselves with use by running the pack with only the ends of the strings paralleled. With that many packs you are almost certain to have some duds, or at least some with a significantly weaker cell. The reason I say it's safer is because If you force each pack at a parallel level to have an identical voltage, then a low cell has to be has its effect spread over the 4 other cells verses 19 other cells without the bus bar.

eg. Let's say there's a bad cell whose voltage ends up 0.5V low . That puts you overcharging the other 5 cells even if you were charging only to 4.15V . With only 2 bus bars, the effect is spread over 19 cells, so instead of a too high 4.25V charge, they end up a safe 4.18V. With that many packs you obviously won't individually balance charge each pack on each cycle, and if you go with full parallel structure at the cell level, the bad cell remains hidden. Cell level paralleling and monitoring is safest, but it forces you to test the packs under load before the pack is assembled in order to sort out the weak packs. I have no means of doing that, so I test with conservative real world use. After 10-20 shallow cycles, those which stay in perfect balance are trusted enough for cell level parallel structure and weak packs removed.

I've had a brand new unused pack flameout while sitting undisturbed for a month, so I treat them like fire bombs until they have proven themselves in use, so there's just no way I'm letting a weak pack hide inside my pack. Each has to prove worthy.

John
John in CR
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 13682
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 12:58 am
Location: Paradise

Re: Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:56 pm

Good news! Battery box turned up today.

batbox1.jpg
Battery box
batbox1.jpg (5.83 KiB) Viewed 2488 times
and insitu
batbox2.jpg
In situ
batbox2.jpg (9.3 KiB) Viewed 2488 times


Also I have amended my battery connections as per John's comments.
batteries mk2.jpg
Revised battery connections
(79.31 KiB) Downloaded 11 times
YZF600R EV
20S14P 70Ah LiPo pack
72V 600A Controller
User avatar
Bernel
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:33 pm
Location: Peterborough, England

Re: Thundercat EV

Postby Idontwanttopedal » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:55 pm

Can't wait to see this up and running
Idontwanttopedal
1 kW
1 kW
 
Posts: 472
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:39 pm
Location: Essex uk

Re: Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:48 pm

John in CR wrote:I wish I had read your thread sooner.

I like the new plan better because you can also more safely have the packs "prove" themselves with use by running the pack with only the ends of the strings paralleled. With that many packs you are almost certain to have some duds, or at least some with a significantly weaker cell. The reason I say it's safer is because If you force each pack at a parallel level to have an identical voltage, then a low cell has to be has its effect spread over the 4 other cells verses 19 other cells without the bus bar.

eg. Let's say there's a bad cell whose voltage ends up 0.5V low . That puts you overcharging the other 5 cells even if you were charging only to 4.15V . With only 2 bus bars, the effect is spread over 19 cells, so instead of a too high 4.25V charge, they end up a safe 4.18V. With that many packs you obviously won't individually balance charge each pack on each cycle, and if you go with full parallel structure at the cell level, the bad cell remains hidden. Cell level paralleling and monitoring is safest, but it forces you to test the packs under load before the pack is assembled in order to sort out the weak packs. I have no means of doing that, so I test with conservative real world use. After 10-20 shallow cycles, those which stay in perfect balance are trusted enough for cell level parallel structure and weak packs removed.

I've had a brand new unused pack flameout while sitting undisturbed for a month, so I treat them like fire bombs until they have proven themselves in use, so there's just no way I'm letting a weak pack hide inside my pack. Each has to prove worthy.

John


Hi John,
Below is a schematic of my 5S 2P LiPo set up. I will be adding 6 more 5S 1P as funds allow. Would you or any fellow E-Sers like to comment?
battery conections.jpg
(53.91 KiB) Downloaded 11 times
YZF600R EV
20S14P 70Ah LiPo pack
72V 600A Controller
User avatar
Bernel
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:33 pm
Location: Peterborough, England

Re: Thundercat EV

Postby pendragon8000 » Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:31 pm

Keep the pics coming .looks great.
8)HYENA high power ebike kits
My builds
scott 29er + Hyena kit, mon-goose to MON-STER 6KW, Free Agent RC Mid Drive, videos

my bike goes so fast 'cos it charges the battery while I pedal
User avatar
pendragon8000
1 MW
1 MW
 
Posts: 1794
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:29 am
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Re: Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:03 pm

pendragon8000 wrote:Keep the pics coming .looks great.

Hi pendragon8000 as requested the pics keep coming, I have been ordering cables and battery terminals and working on the cable arrangement for my prototype battery box, some pictures below. Notice the terminals are too short in the picture below so I have ordered some 50mm ones.

terminals1.jpg
terminals1.jpg (37.43 KiB) Viewed 2402 times

The MDF will be replaced with plexiglass
terminals2.jpg
(44.67 KiB) Downloaded 9 times

Looking from above I am thinking of connecting the main leads at one end of the bus bars and charging leads at the other end.
WP_000598.jpg

WP_000599.jpg
Last edited by Bernel on Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
YZF600R EV
20S14P 70Ah LiPo pack
72V 600A Controller
User avatar
Bernel
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:33 pm
Location: Peterborough, England

Re: Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:34 pm

Here is the latest on my progress so far, the DC/DC converter, charger, controller and batteries are now connected. All electrical systems power up, lights, horn, brakes all working. The problem I have now is that the motor does not spin up when I twist the throttle, some more investigations to do here. If anyone out there has connected a Kelly KBL controller to an ME0913 and got it working I would like to hear from them.

Things to do:-
1. Spin up motor
2. Weld battery box to frame
3. Mount emergency disconnect
4. Cut assembly plates to mount the controller, DC/DC converter and charger and fit to frame
5. Fit and align chain
6. Vehicle inspection
7. MOT
8. Re-register bike
9. Tax if required
10. Insure
11. Vrooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom!!!!!!!!!!!!
YZF600R EV
20S14P 70Ah LiPo pack
72V 600A Controller
User avatar
Bernel
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:33 pm
Location: Peterborough, England

Re: Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:28 am

Eureka! The fault was traced to a faulty throttle pot, I bought a cheap 4k7 pot from my local electronic store, connected it and fired it up. The motor span up nicely and was very quiet. I need to source a new pot as I have a PB6 three wire set up. If anyone knows a UK supplier for these 5k Ohm pots please let me know, I found one in the states for $18 (£12) but the shipping costs were $80 (£54).

I have to give thanks to John Fiorenza from Motenergy, Fany from Kelly Controllers and Froodus who all offered advice and help.

Note: Hall sensors B and C should be reversed.

Vroooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom!
YZF600R EV
20S14P 70Ah LiPo pack
72V 600A Controller
User avatar
Bernel
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:33 pm
Location: Peterborough, England

Re: Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Mon May 13, 2013 2:57 pm

Here is an update of my progress to date. Battery frame is in and bolted.
battery frame 1.jpg
Battery Frame
battery frame2.jpg
Battery frame 2
battery frame2.jpg (51.49 KiB) Viewed 2252 times
and battery box in situ
battery frame 3.jpg
Battery Frame 3
battery frame 3.jpg (58.23 KiB) Viewed 2252 times
.

The chain has been fitted.
front sprocket.jpg
Front sprocket
Last edited by Bernel on Mon May 13, 2013 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
YZF600R EV
20S14P 70Ah LiPo pack
72V 600A Controller
User avatar
Bernel
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:33 pm
Location: Peterborough, England

Re: Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Mon May 13, 2013 3:16 pm

Rear sprocket view.
chain.jpg
rear sprocket view
chain.jpg (61.09 KiB) Viewed 2235 times
Speed sensor.
speed sensor.jpg
speed sensor
The clearance is a bit tight on the speed sensor so I will make some changes later in the build. I have been working on the tank, the J1772 socket will hopefully sit where the fuel filer cap was.
tank.jpg
Fuel Tank
Once the bike is built and MOT'd I will be strip it down and get the frame cleaned up and polish up the fairings and wheels.

My next step is to get a bracket welded to the frame and a cross beam bolted to the battery tray risers at the front. This will allow me to mount the controller assembly.
YZF600R EV
20S14P 70Ah LiPo pack
72V 600A Controller
User avatar
Bernel
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:33 pm
Location: Peterborough, England

Re: Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Fri May 17, 2013 4:07 am

16/05/13
Trial controller assembly tray mounting brackets made. Tidied up various connectors and made a bracket to hold down the DC/DC converter tray. Went to start the bike up but the main contactor would not pull in. I had to strip back all my pretty wiring harness to trace the fault. It turned out to be a poor inline crimp which was giving me high resistance. Any way fault fixed, motor span up then stopped and I got an error code 4 blinks then 1 blink. I will go to bed now and deal with it later today as it is now 01:00 in the morning.

17/05/13
My sons 14th birthday, the fault code was an over-voltage at power on, I had set it to 84 V on the controller, my fluke was indicating 83.4V. The battery pack is a 20S2P arrangement which at 4.2V per cell will yield a maximum voltage of 84V. My last balance charge on the 11th of May gave me 83.75V. I updated the max voltage setting to 85V on the controller problem solved.

I took the bike for its first spin up and down my drive way,there is a bit of a lag from opening the throttle before I get forward motion so some tweaking is required there.

Now I need to tidy up the wiring, cut the controller assembly and DC/DC converter trays, and make up some more mounting brackets then it’s MOT time. I will try and get some video footage for you all to see.
YZF600R EV
20S14P 70Ah LiPo pack
72V 600A Controller
User avatar
Bernel
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:33 pm
Location: Peterborough, England

Re: Thundercat EV

Postby Idontwanttopedal » Fri May 17, 2013 8:24 am

Can't wait see this running
Idontwanttopedal
1 kW
1 kW
 
Posts: 472
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:39 pm
Location: Essex uk

Re: Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Fri May 31, 2013 5:28 pm

Disaster has struck, I had finished cutting the controller and charger assemblies and was connecting everything up ready for the MOT. Whilst connecting the cables to the controller an errant nut
had got lodged between B- and terminal A. I was unaware of this at the time but when I went to power on and twist the throttle there was a bang and a puff of smoke.
controller blow out.JPG
My poor controller
(86.82 KiB) Downloaded 9 times
, below are the finished assemblies.
controller assembly.jpg
Controller assembly
(238.05 KiB) Downloaded 9 times

dcdc charger assembly.jpg
dcc charger assembly
(227.33 KiB) Downloaded 9 times


I ordered a new controller, ammeter, voltmeter and J1 cable from Kelly Controllers. I tested the charger with the 13Amp 3 pin plug and it all worked. I need a vehicle charge controller to use my J1772 EVSE in my garage.


I began fabricating the plug in housing for the J1772 socket, bought some hinges for the fuel flap and ordered an AVC2 vehicle controller for the charging circuit.
Last edited by Bernel on Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
YZF600R EV
20S14P 70Ah LiPo pack
72V 600A Controller
User avatar
Bernel
100 W
100 W
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:33 pm
Location: Peterborough, England

Re: Thundercat EV

Postby pendragon8000 » Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:29 pm

That sux:
Image
I hope you can stay motivated to fix it and have another MOT :)
8)HYENA high power ebike kits
My builds
scott 29er + Hyena kit, mon-goose to MON-STER 6KW, Free Agent RC Mid Drive, videos

my bike goes so fast 'cos it charges the battery while I pedal
User avatar
pendragon8000
1 MW
1 MW
 
Posts: 1794
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:29 am
Location: Adelaide, Australia

PreviousNext

Return to E-Scooter and Motorcycle Photos & Videos

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: dbar and 2 guests

cron