YZF600R Thundercat EV

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Re: YZF600R Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:59 am

marcexec wrote:Nice work, Bernel! Wish mine was usable already... ;)
I noticed you only get ~2 times the range from going from 10Ah to 15 Ah (differenct cells of course) - did that hold up/scale the same way?

Also I'm quite interested in how you connected the tachometer to the motor (hall?) output, please elaborate.
BTW I totally second the call fot the CA - wouldn't want to miss it!

Hi marcexec,
I have carried out further road tests at 70mph on dual carriageways which gave me 16 miles. This seemed to reflect my calculated range at that speed. I have been basing my calculations on 80V (4.0V/ cell) to 62V (3.1V/cell). For town riding 30 to 40mph I can expect 33 miles at 60mph 23 miles and 70mph 16 miles. This is all on 35Ah pack I will increasing this to 50Ah over the next few weeks.

The tachometer was quite simple really, I used an inductive sensor and fitted another grub screw into the front sprocket that was proud of the front sprocket shaft. The sensor was three wire, 12V, ground and signal. The sensor was bought from RS Components it was made by telemechanique.

Good luck with your build I watch it with interest.
Last edited by Bernel on Sun Apr 13, 2014 3:30 pm, edited 2 times in total. View post history.
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Re: YZF600R Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:10 am

tomaj wrote:Hi,

I like your electric thundercat, you have done a good job 8)

I have similar setup as you. ME913 motor, KHB12601 controller and 36S3P A123 cells (118V). Gear ratio is 5:1 and weight of the bike is 170kg.
I can hit only 110km/h and 0-100km/h in 10s...it really sux :evil: Every time I set more than 20% throotle, controller cuts out :cry: I went from 100% motor current to 70% and still same shit :oops:
I think something must be wrong with the controller :roll:



Hi tomaj,
I thought the ME0913 could only handle 96V? What is your exact set up as I am looking to upgrade to the KHB12601?
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Re: YZF600R Thundercat EV

Postby tomaj » Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:53 pm

Right now it is 36S3P configuration.118,8V and 60Ah. After 50km ride on open roads battery was on 63%.
Rear tyre is 150/60/17, gear rato 5:1
Acceleration...sux. Especially from start because of stupid Kelly current limiting. About 12s to 100km/h
Top speed 117 km/h.
At 300A current is battery sag from 118V to 112V.

Oh, It is hooked on Kelly 12251 controller.

I reconfigure battery to 32S3P to 105,6V because I am going to use it with Sevcon Gen4 Size6 8) 8)

If you are interested, I can offer you brand new, never used KHB12601 controller with wiring harness for a very fair price.
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Re: YZF600R Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Sun Apr 13, 2014 3:33 pm

tomaj wrote:Right now it is 36S3P configuration.118,8V and 60Ah. After 50km ride on open roads battery was on 63%.
Rear tyre is 150/60/17, gear rato 5:1
Acceleration...sux. Especially from start because of stupid Kelly current limiting. About 12s to 100km/h
Top speed 117 km/h.
At 300A current is battery sag from 118V to 112V.

Oh, It is hooked on Kelly 12251 controller.

I reconfigure battery to 32S3P to 105,6V because I am going to use it with Sevcon Gen4 Size6 8) 8)

If you are interested, I can offer you brand new, never used KHB12601 controller with wiring harness for a very fair price.

Hi tomaj,
How does your ME0913 handle the higher voltage? What is your idea of a fair price?
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Re: YZF600R Thundercat EV

Postby tomaj » Sun Apr 13, 2014 3:46 pm

It handles it with no issues. High current cause more problems.

Including shipping costs and customs fees for EU is cost for controller 1355€. So, I believe somewhere around 1000€ is a fair price.
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Re: YZF600R Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:09 pm

tomaj wrote:It handles it with no issues. High current cause more problems.

Including shipping costs and customs fees for EU is cost for controller 1355€. So, I believe somewhere around 1000€ is a fair price.

Hi tomaj,
I will stick with what I have and maximise it by changing the battery configuration. I will save my money for my prototype build.

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Re: YZF600R Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:22 pm

Here is an update on the next development. I have torn the bike down, removed the controller, the battery, the converter and charger and left a bare chassis. I am looking at keeping the same voltage but increasing the ampere hours. I have 56 Lipo 18.5V 5000mAh batteries at my disposal. The plan is to design and build a new battery pack of 20S14P, this will give me 70Ah. The battery will change from an across the frame shoe box to a verticle design similar to the Ripperton and Voltron II bikes. I will post some pictures as I progress.

On a new note I have started planning my next build which will be built from the gound up. The design will be based around my6'3" height. I will start a new thread once I begin.

I would like to build a network of UK ev'ers, we could pool our resources when buying batteries to keep costs down and share our experiences in the UK. The ev chatter is almost none existent here and I have heard of various builds in the UK.

If you are up for it let me know.


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Re: YZF600R Thundercat EV

Postby tomaj » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:56 pm

What is your range?
I have 118V nominal voltage and 60Ah. After 50km ride on open roads there is still 65% juice in the batteries. Not bad :D
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Re: YZF600R Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:32 am

tomaj wrote:What is your range?
I have 118V nominal voltage and 60Ah. After 50km ride on open roads there is still 65% juice in the batteries. Not bad :D

Hi tomaj,
With my 35Ah pack I get 16 miles at 70mph, 22 miles combined and 33 miles around town doing 30 40 mph stop and go riding. I have the lvc set at 3.1V per cell, that's 62V pack voltage.

Do you have build thread or photos, I would be interested in seeing your layout.

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Re: YZF600R Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:34 am

Here are some pictures of my proposed new battery installation.
View from the top
battery 1.JPG
View from above
battery 1.JPG (39.84 KiB) Viewed 2546 times
battery 2.JPG
Perspective view
battery 2.JPG (43.42 KiB) Viewed 2546 times

Choice of mounting options 1
longitudinal mount 1.JPG
Mounting option 1
longitudinal mount 1.JPG (41.5 KiB) Viewed 2546 times
longitudinal mount 2.JPG
longitudinal mount 2.JPG (39.02 KiB) Viewed 2546 times

Choice of mounting options 2
transverse mount 1.JPG
Mounting option 2
transverse mount 1.JPG (42.26 KiB) Viewed 2546 times
transverse mount 2.JPG
transverse mount 2.JPG (40.99 KiB) Viewed 2546 times


The battery pack will be 20S14P
4 series.JPG
20 Series
4 series.JPG (37.17 KiB) Viewed 2546 times
14 parallel.JPG
14 parallel
14 parallel.JPG (32.86 KiB) Viewed 2546 times

and here you can see the old box against the new one.
old v new.JPG
Old v new
old v new.JPG (36.94 KiB) Viewed 2546 times
Last edited by Bernel on Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: YZF600R Thundercat EV

Postby dave.a » Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:14 pm

Bernel wrote:Here is an update on the next development. I have torn the bike down, removed the controller, the battery, the converter and charger and left a bare chassis. I am looking at keeping the same voltage but increasing the ampere hours. I have 56 Lipo 18.5V 5000mAh batteries at my disposal. The plan is to design and build a new battery pack of 20S14P, this will give me 70Ah. The battery will change from an across the frame shoe box to a verticle design similar to the Ripperton and Voltron II bikes. I will post some pictures as I progress.

On a new note I have started planning my next build which will be built from the gound up. The design will be based around my6'3" height. I will start a new thread once I begin.

I would like to build a network of UK ev'ers, we could pool our resources when buying batteries to keep costs down and share our experiences in the UK. The ev chatter is almost none existent here and I have heard of various builds in the UK.

If you are up for it let me know.

Id be up for that, as i live in Nottingham too.
Pm me if you fancy meeting up or popping over for a brew and a chat :-)
Dave


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Re: YZF600R Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Thu May 15, 2014 1:28 pm

Here is an update on my battery pack upgrade
photo 1.jpeg
LiPo pack from the front
photo 1.jpeg (48.29 KiB) Viewed 2426 times
photo 2.jpeg
LiPo pack from the top
photo 2.jpeg (44.94 KiB) Viewed 2426 times


The case is 6mm polycarbonate, it will be supported by an aluminium cage to take the weight. The top features Methods hvc/lvc breaker, current shunt, main fuse and charger fuse. You can just about mske out the 5S lvc boards. The top will be partitioned with more polycarbonate to protect the shunt, fuses and myself from shock. There will be a handle fitted to the cage to enable easy removal of the pack through the top of the frame.

I welcome your comments.

Inspiration and ideas came from Ripperton and jonescg builds.
Last edited by Bernel on Thu May 15, 2014 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: YZF600R Thundercat EV

Postby picaroon » Thu May 15, 2014 4:46 pm

Nice bike Bernel

Have you thought about adding a shelf or two fixed into your battery pack so that the bottom packs don't carry all the weight and get a bit too squashed over time?

It's something I've heard other people say about other battery packs and it sounded like a good idea.......
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Re: YZF600R Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Thu May 15, 2014 5:25 pm

picaroon wrote:Nice bike Bernel

Have you thought about adding a shelf or two fixed into your battery pack so that the bottom packs don't carry all the weight and get a bit too squashed over time?

It's something I've heard other people say about other battery packs and it sounded like a good idea.......

Hi picaroon,
Wow another guy from the UK, you have a good point and it was something that has been lurking in the back of my mind. I can see myself modifying this design a bit anyway. I wonder if there is anyone out there on ES who could add some knowledge on this.

Thanks for the comment.
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Re: YZF600R Thundercat EV

Postby veloman » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:23 am

holy crap that is a lot of lipo! What is your bms situation like?
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Re: YZF600R Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:29 pm

Veloman I am using methods hvc/lvc 5S boards, I have 4 of them, one for each of the parallel runs. I have made up my own extension boards that run the length of the battery. The system worked fine when I was running 7P.

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Re: YZF600R Thundercat EV

Postby marcexec » Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:08 pm

Do you have any temperature monitoring in the pack? Just for that extra bit of confidence.
PTC & buzzer comes to mind. Or just throw in some fridge LCD thermometers for a quid each shipped: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370973296977
Mind the 2 I have were .8C apart - until one lead wrapped itself around the outrunner... :pancake:
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Re: YZF600R Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:44 pm

I have a 4 channel temperature monitor. It is Arduino based which I downloaded from a guy in the States. I will be adding 4 more channels once I finish this battery pack. It works very well and I get a digital read out, I can place the sensors anywhere on the bike. During my trials I had one on the controller casing, one on the motor, one in the old battery pack and a spare sensing ambient air temp.

I am waiting for my local fabrication company to build an aluminium battery box to house my new pack then I can start putting the bike back together again. Evenings and weekends are really slowing the rebuild.

I will post some pictures some time this week on my progress to date.

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Re: YZF600R Thundercat EV

Postby Spacey » Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:55 pm

I'm building a monster 96v pack from 18650 Samsung 22p cells for my Cagiva Mito 125 build.

Not sure I would want that much Lipo under my balls, you sir are a brave man :D
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Re: YZF600R Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:50 am

Spacey wrote:I'm building a monster 96v pack from 18650 Samsung 22p cells for my Cagiva Mito 125 build.

Not sure I would want that much Lipo under my balls, you sir are a brave man :D

Hi Spacey,
Good to see more UK based bike builders, I would be interested in your build particularly your battery pack. Once I have finished installing the 20S14P pack I will carry out more road trials and see if I can commute 25 miles to work on it. I can top up the charge at work.
Are you posting your build anywhere?

Bernel
Last edited by Bernel on Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:51 am, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: YZF600R Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:59 am

20140906_122744(2).jpg
Battery box
20140906_122744(2).jpg (76.41 KiB) Viewed 1827 times
So the painstaking task of balance charging fifty six 5S batteries begins.

These are my balance boards and I have layered solder on the tracks to take the balance current.
20140906_123701(2).jpg
Balance board
20140906_123701(2).jpg (60.33 KiB) Viewed 1827 times
20140906_123714(1).jpg
Soldered tracks
20140906_123714(1).jpg (57.13 KiB) Viewed 1827 times
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Re: YZF600R Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:03 pm

Hello everyone,
I have been a bit busy lately with work and family commitments, however I have made some progress with the bike and the upgraded battery pack.
Below are some pictures of the 90% completed pack. The pack weighs 50kg and is a bit heavy for me to lift into the bike safely.
battery front.JPG
Front of battery Pack
battery front.JPG (53 KiB) Viewed 1656 times

battery lhs.JPG
Left hand side
battery lhs.JPG (52.95 KiB) Viewed 1656 times

battery rhs.JPG
Right hand side
battery rhs.JPG (52.19 KiB) Viewed 1656 times

battery rear.JPG
Rear
battery rear.JPG (56.05 KiB) Viewed 1656 times

In true testosterone style I bought an engine crane lift to provide the necessary assistance.
Last edited by Bernel on Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: YZF600R Thundercat EV

Postby Bernel » Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:06 pm

The engine lift arrived this evening.
IMG_0533.JPG
IMG_0533.JPG (72.1 KiB) Viewed 1657 times

et voila!
IMG_0534.JPG
IMG_0534.JPG (57.92 KiB) Viewed 1657 times
IMG_0535.JPG
IMG_0535.JPG (69.49 KiB) Viewed 1657 times


I will post a video of the test fit tomorrow.
I am also working on a tablet dashboard to replace my gauges. Here is the mock up below, it will feature on a 7 or 8 inch tablet.
8 inch dashboard.png
Dashboard
(177.69 KiB) Downloaded 7 times


The summer is over now but we had 20 degrees C temperatures today! Wow impressive for October in the UK, maybe it is a sign to get this thing rolling. I completed the first iteration about this time last year and was carrying out test rides in December!Any way I will post further updates as I progress.
Last edited by Bernel on Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: YZF600R Thundercat EV

Postby jonescg » Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:49 am

Looks great Bern!

The spaghetti junction looks a bit chaotic, but enclosing it inside the polycarb box is a great move.
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Re: YZF600R Thundercat EV

Postby kfong » Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:14 am

That is one scary pack! I'm imagining all that weight resting on the bottom packs with no support when going over bumps. I would of gone with the latest generation power tool cells. They now equal or exceed lipo's capacity in the same amount of space without the fire hazard. I can't even imagine what your pack will do if it catches fire, since no one has documented a fire with that many packs. I'm cautious enough with my lipos, but I would be absolutly nervous with yours. I hope you have a safe area to charge and store the bike. I've only seen that amount in cars, but at least stored in the metal trunk.
Last edited by kfong on Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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