Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

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electricalbicycle   100 mW

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » Apr 21 2014 8:32pm

I have thought about making the bike uglier but more functional by enclosing the area that is now open under the seat, from the frame to the seat.

Depending on how it was built, the seat could sit on top of this frame extension. That extra volume could enclose extra cells and the controller.

I could possibly add a motor in the area so that I can fit a larger diameter and/or longer motor in the bike.

I have also considered adding a motor ahead of the stock motor so that the bike would look more like an old Honda 50, where the motor is slung below the frame. That would make the chain pretty long.

I was thinking I could attach flat metal plates to the frame where the 4 bolts and 2 large pipes go through the frame. By extending those 6 pieces and mounting plates outboard of the frame, it seems like that might make a suitable motor mount for a motor that was mounted below the frame, forward of the stock motor.

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 24 2014 7:57am

electricalbicycle wrote:I am leaning towards a 48V pack in approximately the volume of the original NiMH pack. BHT seems to have a Li Battery with BMS that would fit. I just wonder how well enclosed the BMU is. Might have TAP make a plastic cover that hinges in the front on the stock Voloci battery pin and then somehow latch in the rear. I would abandon the stock battery contacts in favor of PowerPoles.

The stock Voloci everything with CycleAnalyst to "correct" the Voloci Hall Throttle to the throttle Voltage that a Lyen controller would expect. So, new battery, new controller with stock motor but at 48V vs 36V.

I would probably throttle the bike to 30 mph but getting to 30 mph would be zippier. If I don't zip it too much, maybe I can keep from overheating the stock Voloci motor.
Ya I don't think you will have any trouble running at 48v. Sounds like a good idea. The stock battery poles should get replaced for sure tho. 30mph is a great cruising speed, it just has to get there fast ans be able to go a little bit more just incase.

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 24 2014 8:02am

electricalbicycle wrote:I have thought about making the bike uglier but more functional by enclosing the area that is now open under the seat, from the frame to the seat.

Depending on how it was built, the seat could sit on top of this frame extension. That extra volume could enclose extra cells and the controller.

I could possibly add a motor in the area so that I can fit a larger diameter and/or longer motor in the bike.

I have also considered adding a motor ahead of the stock motor so that the bike would look more like an old Honda 50, where the motor is slung below the frame. That would make the chain pretty long.

I was thinking I could attach flat metal plates to the frame where the 4 bolts and 2 large pipes go through the frame. By extending those 6 pieces and mounting plates outboard of the frame, it seems like that might make a suitable motor mount for a motor that was mounted below the frame, forward of the stock motor.
That will definitely make it uglier :) there is not much room for expansion with the Voloci's sleek design. Altho the battery box is plenty large enough for voltage increase. And as I'm starting to notice the bike doesn't like added weight too much, The aluminum frame starts twisting. I may have to make some braces/brackets to hold things in place(while adding weight) which sucks.

Do you happen to know the stock chain size of the bike? I may need to source some.

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by BikeFanatic » Apr 24 2014 9:02am

I found a fairly close match on McMaster-Carr. http://www.mcmaster.com/
I didn't measure the length, so 6 ft. is just a guess.

Part Number: 6261K326
1-1 Each $17.76 Each
2 or more $12.54 Each
ANSI Chain Number 41

Pitch 1/2"
Style Single Strand, Material Steel, Working Load 500 lbs.Breaking Point 2,600 lbs.
Length 6 ft. Roller Diameter .306" Roller Width 1/4"
Includes one connecting link, for additional connecting links order 6261K192.

STEEL ROLLER CHAIN, #41, SINGLE STRAND, 1/2" PITCH, .306" DIA, 6'L

#41 CONNECTING LINK FOR, STEEL ROLLER CHAIN

http://www.mcmaster.com/?error_redirect ... 48/=rocfju
http://www.mcmaster.com/?error_redirect ... 92/=roceyp

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 24 2014 10:34am

BikeFanatic wrote:I found a fairly close match on McMaster-Carr. http://www.mcmaster.com/
I didn't measure the length, so 6 ft. is just a guess.

Part Number: 6261K326
1-1 Each $17.76 Each
2 or more $12.54 Each
ANSI Chain Number 41

Pitch 1/2"
Style Single Strand, Material Steel, Working Load 500 lbs.Breaking Point 2,600 lbs.
Length 6 ft. Roller Diameter .306" Roller Width 1/4"
Includes one connecting link, for additional connecting links order 6261K192.

STEEL ROLLER CHAIN, #41, SINGLE STRAND, 1/2" PITCH, .306" DIA, 6'L

#41 CONNECTING LINK FOR, STEEL ROLLER CHAIN

http://www.mcmaster.com/?error_redirect ... 48/=rocfju
http://www.mcmaster.com/?error_redirect ... 92/=roceyp
Thank you for the link! I can actually buy direct from Mcmaster thru my work, So that will be good. But I'm worried about how "fairly close" they are? Will it cause extra wear on my sprockets? How did you compare this from the OEM chain(dimension wise)and what makes them different.

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 24 2014 1:25pm

I just got back from the awful Tractor Supply. I bought a bag of #41 ansi master links. They are too wide. but luckily all I really needed was 1 piece of the masterlink that i lost(side that looks like a figure eight) so even though the links are too wide I will still be able to make things work with what I have now!
Last edited by skeetab5780 on Apr 25 2014 5:37am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by BikeFanatic » Apr 24 2014 8:47pm

the voloci chain appears to be a #41 chain, but somewhat narrower than standard.
I measured the roller width to be .175", roller dia .3", and pitch = 1/2".
the mcmaster chain may be slightly wider roller but won't be a problem.

40 master links! guess i know who to call when i need oe

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » Apr 24 2014 9:43pm

I THINK the chain is 415.

(on second thought, the 415HS has wider side plates)
Last edited by electricalbicycle on Apr 26 2014 9:10am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 25 2014 1:27am

ya its way wider, i wouldn't use them together ever. I just need 1 piece of a master link..so its ok to use it. And very funny the bag is a 3x pack of #41 size links..lol

Obviously the old looking hairy link is the stock Voloci, the shiny new link is from the package i bought today. That is all i needed
Image

here you can sorta see how they are wider, i need to take a comparison shot
Image

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » Apr 26 2014 9:09am

415HS chain on the left vs Voloci on the right (or, shiny vs rusty).

The 415HS fits on the sprockets but it is wider so there may be some clearance problems with the stock Voloci where around the motor sprocket to frame spacing.

I haven't actually run the 415 chain on a stock Voloci.
Attachments
415HS Chain vs Voloci Chain.jpg

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » May 01 2014 7:46pm

Looks like Voloci DOES use 415 Chain. The 415H has thicker sides plates and may or may not work due to possible clearance problems.

I got the 415 chain on ebay and it was available as normal and pre-stretched (for a couple of bucks more).

As far as I can tell, the chain fits BUT as you can see in the photos, I haven't yet put the chain on a running Voloci.
Attachments
Voloci Chain Comparison.jpg
Voloci Chain Comparison 415, 415S, 41
Voloci Chain Comparison.jpg (96.39 KiB) Viewed 3143 times
415 Chain on Voloci Wheel.jpg
415 Chain on Rear Wheel
415 Chain on Voloci Wheel.jpg (212.27 KiB) Viewed 3143 times

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » May 05 2014 5:59am

Thanks for the great pictures, and for confirming this for me! Wow that rear wheel and chain looks so shiny...you don't happen to have extras do you? :)

My road rash had put me out of commission for almost 2 weeks but I should be back at it any day now.

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » May 05 2014 7:08pm

I bought a set of wheels from Stevil_Knevil. Per his suggestion, put on the Michelin moped tires. Put on a 180mm Avid disc. AND, unbelievably, when I bought some parts from MopedMart on ebay, MopedMart threw in a bunch of extra parts, one of which was the rear sprocket!

MopedMart has much of the original Voloci MOPED parts and he is currently listing forks, rear shock, mirrors, handlebars, turn signals, etc.

MopedMart gave me the sprocket and probably has more sprockets (my guess). He has Voloci wheels and seats and some other Voloci parts that he isn't advertising on ebay. Might be worth an ebay reply to him if you need Voloci moped parts (no controller, battery pack, wire harness, etc.).

I originally bought the Voloci wheels thinking I would rebuild the rear wheel as an electric hub motor but have since changed my mind.

Now, my plan is to make a 48V NiMH pack to fit in and slightly above the stock frame, then a >48V controller and CycleAnalyst to modify the single-magnet Voloci Hall throttle to work with the after-market controller.

I am thinking I do the electrical connections under the stock Voloci controller cover. I think/hope I can fit a 48V to 12V down converter in there too, but if not, I will mount the downconverter under the seat.

My goal is nearly stock (battery will stick out of the frame by about 2 inches, the after-market controller will be on the seat stays, to the rear, and wires run into the motor controller area where the stock wires used to enter that area). I'd like a bit more zip and 25% more Voltage should do that. I would like to be closer to 30 mph than I was at 36V.

I fried my Voloci controller and there are no more to be had, so time to update the technology.

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » May 05 2014 10:50pm

I hope you heel quickly...road rash...oouch!

I am looking forward to reading about your further adventures with the bike.

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » May 06 2014 7:44am

Nice I'm finally checking out his site now. New Jersey is close to me also! this is a good thing. The stuff on Ebay doesn't interest me...but hopefully he has some other stuff

I have a controller! just needs a flash :) offer a trade if you want.

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » May 06 2014 9:35am

The ebay guy does have a shop in NJ. He bought all the Voloci moped stuff when they out of business. He sells the same stuff week after week on ebay but he has wheels and seats and other Voloci parts that don't make it to ebay. He says he has a lot of Voloci wheels.

I don't ever get rid of stuff, so nothing to trade. If you decide that you will never put the Voloci back as stock, I'd be interested in getting a package deal if you are interested in selling. I couild use the controller but also the wiring harness, battery packs, charger, throttle, etc....all the stuff you pulled off.

Oh, and I have a broken Voloci rotor where one magnet came off. No one seems willing to glue it back on and I am nervious doing it myself because other magnets may also come off and there may be balance issues, etc. I'd love to get a Voloci motor.

I have the firmware on a Kanda.com keyfob flasher, so putting on new code is no problem.

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » May 06 2014 9:57am

Ya I have a message into him right now for a bunch of stuff! lets hope he gets back with a good $ on it all.

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » May 06 2014 11:42am

Well I'm also getting a set of wheels from him and a sprocket and some brakes/calipers and some chain..hah

Lets see how it all comes in!

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » May 18 2014 4:07pm

Stuff came in looking brandy new as promised! He actually called me and I told him you were my reference. He remembered you well and said your one of the only folks buying Voloci stuff off him anymore. I've still been working on my BHT Genesis Farfle so i still don't have any progress on the Voloci build unfortunately...But the BHT is fast!

here are some pics of the goods.
Calipers
Image
Wheel set!
Image
Slovenia tires
Image
Chain vs. old chain
Image

P.s. i haven't forgot about your PM

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » May 19 2014 11:14am

I never had much luck with the stock Voloci brakes. I swapped mine out for Avid BB7 180 mm and they work great. I tried 200mm Avids but they seemed too powerful at maybe 25 mph!

I bought some aftermarket brake pads for the stock brakes but never did put them on so don't know if that would fix the brake problem.

The wheels look great. The ones I got from Stevil_Knevil were minus the rotors and sprocket and axel but were very nice.

I am fooling (slowly) with a 48V NiMH battery pack that can fit where the old 36V used to reside but that sticks up by an inch or so above the frame. With 48V comes a new controller and Cycle Analyst V3 to modify the stock Voloci throttle output to work with the new controller.

One thing that I didn't consider was that there aren't any powerful 48V NiMH chargers. I bought a 1 amp universal charger which should take 13 hours to charge the battery.

I am considering modifying the battery pack to put in a second charging circuit so I can charge the 48V pack as two separate 24V packs using two chargers.

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » May 19 2014 2:09pm

Ya I noticed today that even with brand new pads and perfect alignment they still do not really stop that well. Most of my other bikes use Avid mechanical types and they work much better. I have hydraulic on my gary fisher downhill bike but have not started implementing them to Ebikes yet.

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » May 19 2014 9:56pm

I kept my Voloci Tomos hand controls and just used different cable-operated brakes. I used Avid BB7 180 mm. No complaints about Avid BB7s.

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » May 19 2014 10:12pm

Here is a comparison of the stock Voloci 36V NiMH battery pack vs a custom 48V NiMH battery NOT IN AN ENCLOSURE.
Attachments
Voloci 36 vs 48 take1.jpg
Voloci 36V vs 48V Take 3.jpg

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » May 19 2014 11:08pm

Beautiful battery! what are the specs? If i had to guess i would say that is from www.batteryspace.com? how much did that run you if you don't mind?

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » May 20 2014 2:37pm

Exactly right: BatterySpace made the 48V battery.

They also make a 36V battery that will fit in the stock Voloci metal battery case. Its tight (as was the original SAFT battery pack), but it fits.

Both the 48V and 36V had thermistor wires run separately out of the pack and all connections are external to the pack.

The 36V has a 70°C thermostat but they thought 65°C was a better temperature, so the 48V pack has a 65°C thermostat. In both packs, the thermostat is in series with the charging leads.

Since the 48V pack is shorter than the stock pack because it is not in the case, I have to make up some plastic spacers for the ends. The spacer at one end will also allow me to route the battery pack wires.

Just noticed an error on the BatterySpace description. The 36V should be 30 F-Cells, comprised of 6 sticks of 5 cells each. The 48V should be 40 F-cells, comprised of 8 sticks of 5 cells each.

For the 48V pack, BatterySpace had ONE 48V NiMH charger (2A) which they sold me.

48V NiMH chargers are very hard to find. I am now thinking I might have been better off setting up the pack with two charge circuits of 24V each. I would halve the pack for the chargers and then install two thermostats and two thermistors. The problem would be that you would absolutely need to be sure that if you used two chargers that their outputs were floating. You'd have big problems if both chargers tied negative to ground and then you connected the grounds together when you plugged the charger in the wall!
Attachments
48V, 13 ah, NiMH.png
48V, 13 ah, NiMH.png (126.35 KiB) Viewed 2901 times
36V, 13 ah, NiMH.png
36V, 13 ah, NiMH.png (129.14 KiB) Viewed 2901 times

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