Mid-mount Hubmonster Madass

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maydaverave   10 kW

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Re: Mid-mount Hubmonster Madass

Post by maydaverave » Jan 04 2018 4:18am

Interested how this turns out. I have a kymco kpipe that i stuffed a 155cc pitbike engine into. its a pain to keep running and i have been thinking about converting. I believe the madass and kpipe have the same motor mounts. edit just saw your new frame guess you wont be using stock motor mounts.
e-bikekit 50v 9.2ah cellman pack

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: Mid-mount Hubmonster Madass

Post by John in CR » Jan 04 2018 5:48am

maydaverave wrote:
Jan 04 2018 4:18am
... edit just saw your new frame guess you wont be using stock motor mounts.
Actually my motor mount is almost 100% stock. It took just a minute or two with a file to slide my previously modded axle HubMonster onto the Sachs swingarm. :mrgreen: It's the closest to stock motor mount I've ever been able to use on any ebike.

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: Mid-mount Hubmonster Madass

Post by John in CR » Mar 05 2018 11:34pm

Ohbse,

Time to get yours on the road. I finished mine late last week and been riding it daily. I ended up as just over the stock 125CC's weight with mine at 104kg, so thank goodness I ditched that heavy frame and did a monocoque steel one. Here are a few pics, though I don't have one yet in finished form with the bottom cover and rear fender. My pack is 115V nominal 26ah. Don't know the top speed yet as I haven't had a deserted highway...yet. I'll do a walk around video soon, as well as a ride video with Analogger overlay dashboard and gps info.
Here's the frame and swingarm after paint
MadAss frame and swingarm after paint sml.JPG
MadAss frame and swingarm after paint sml.JPG (42.95 KiB) Viewed 1281 times
Here's my battery and controller rack that slides into the monocoque frame from the bottom
MadAss batt and controllers sml.JPG
MadAss batt and controllers sml.JPG (57.07 KiB) Viewed 1281 times
Here she is road ready without the bottom cover, rear fender, and foot peg bracket.
MadAss without bottom cover sml.JPG
MadAss without bottom cover sml.JPG (61.12 KiB) Viewed 1281 times

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Mid-mount Hubmonster Madass

Post by Chalo » Mar 05 2018 11:51pm

Go Third World lack of regulation!

I'm glad I don't have to wait at lights with Third World vehicles. It's bad enough lingering around non-compliant USA vehicles. Hopefully I can hold off the cancer for another couple of decades.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: Mid-mount Hubmonster Madass

Post by John in CR » Mar 06 2018 8:41am

Chalo wrote:
Mar 05 2018 11:51pm
Go Third World lack of regulation!

I'm glad I don't have to wait at lights with Third World vehicles. It's bad enough lingering around non-compliant USA vehicles. Hopefully I can hold off the cancer for another couple of decades.
We have regulations here, just not oppressive ebike laws written by prejudiced pedalists. Instead we have a 49cc limit for gassers, and a 5000W limit for electric, which makes perfect sense for useful ebikes in mountainous terrain. Your opinions and approach hinder the inevitable broad spread use of electric transportation, and that is a bad thing.

There's nothing unsafe about my bike. It has full lighting, better than stock brakes, and good tires. I could even go to the trouble and expense of making it a plated vehicle, but why on earth would I voluntarily pay the extra money and inconvenience every year if I don't have to.

Voltron   1 MW

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Re: Mid-mount Hubmonster Madass

Post by Voltron » Mar 06 2018 12:59pm

Pretty hard to see how lingering behind the particular vehicle is going to up anybodys cancer rate...

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Mid-mount Hubmonster Madass

Post by Chalo » Mar 07 2018 2:49am

Voltron wrote:
Mar 06 2018 12:59pm
Pretty hard to see how lingering behind the particular vehicle is going to up anybodys cancer rate...
His particular vehicle? Naw, the only harm there is getting in front of it. But the same lax standards and lack of enforcement that allow him to run an unlicensed, uninspected homemade motorcycle also allow some really nasty hydrocarbon stinkers, which are much more popular. You don't get one without the other, it seems.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: Mid-mount Hubmonster Madass

Post by Voltron » Mar 07 2018 5:06am

You don't get one without the other? That's some world class conflation there.

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Mid-mount Hubmonster Madass

Post by Chalo » Mar 08 2018 1:42am

My point is that not adequately regulating things that go on the road gets you vile stinking smoggers alongside uninsured, uninspected, unregistered homemade electric motorcycles. We can like one better than the other, but it's the same dereliction of the common interest that makes them both practicable.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: Mid-mount Hubmonster Madass

Post by John in CR » Mar 09 2018 12:58am

Chalo wrote:
Mar 08 2018 1:42am
My point is that not adequately regulating things that go on the road gets you vile stinking smoggers alongside uninsured, uninspected, unregistered homemade electric motorcycles. We can like one better than the other, but it's the same dereliction of the common interest that makes them both practicable.
"Dereliction of the common interest", what a bunch of BS. Your typical liberal stance on everything that somehow bigger government and more regulation is good couldn't miss the target more. Add your consistent prejudice against any ebike more powerful than the weakest pedelec to an absolute ignorance of regulation and enforcement of laws in this country, and the result is your laughable posts so common in thread where I post.

What do you guys think is safer for others (ie in the common interest)?
1. 400+lbs of Chalo+bicycle powered by animal and produce products made by big industry, while he's riding completely without regulation on streets being a slow moving nuisance to motorists and on multi-use pathways designed for and used primarily by pedestrians.
or
2. 400+lbs of John+ebike powered almost 100% by renewable sources (water, wind, solar, geothermal) via drastically more efficient and clean electricity), while he's riding 100% on the streets, paying tolls on the highway every day, and not only being courteous and safe, but never once in 10yrs of ebiking have I inconvenienced another motorist. In other words being a good ambassador for electrics, while at the same time demonstrating their distinct advantage and potential to an uneducated public.
---note: Keep in mind that food is such an expensive and inefficient power source for transportation, that despite my vehicles' much higher mechanical power and far shorter transit times, my real cost of operation is far lower. Once you go beyond raw energy costs and include the full impact on the world of the industrial food supply chain, it's quite obvious whose transportation is "in the common interest.".

SlowCo   10 kW

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Re: Mid-mount Hubmonster Madass

Post by SlowCo » Mar 09 2018 3:59pm

I love your Hubmonster MadAss.
But you're missing the point. It all comes down to insurance or the ability to compensate those you hit or run over.
Hopefully this will never happen but if a vehicle isn't legal it is uninsured. And in case of an accident the owner will be liable for all the costs. So as long as you're able to cough up a few hundred thousand for medical bills etc. for a potential victim, there is no problem riding illegal vehicles. Maybe in your place this e-bike is a legal and you'll insure it but most builders of unregistered vehicles just "take the risk"...

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: Mid-mount Hubmonster Madass

Post by John in CR » Mar 09 2018 10:28pm

I'm not missing any point. My vehicles are 100% legal. Though I'm not required to carry typical motor vehicle insurance, I am covered by insurance for any harms I cause through an umbrella liability coverage for me and my family. Do you think Chalo is covered similarly? I doubt it, and he is far more likely to cause an injury than I am, because he rides in closer proximate to exposed persons. What's the likelihood of me running over a pedestrian in a crosswalk while I'm stopped at a stop light, since that's the only time they're exposed to me.

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Re: Mid-mount Hubmonster Madass

Post by Ohbse » Jul 12 2018 6:11pm

Hey John, how's the Madass going? Mine's still sadly in a million pieces, life has been getting in the way with setting up a business, building a workshop, international travel etc

I'm working my way through the other projects and I'm going to be spending more time on getting this together, curious to hear how your one turned out in terms of performance and usability.

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wineboyrider   100 MW

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Re: Mid-mount Hubmonster Madass

Post by wineboyrider » Jul 12 2018 8:47pm

Nice job JohninCR!
ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: Mid-mount Hubmonster Madass

Post by John in CR » Jul 13 2018 2:55am

Thanks Wineboy.


Ohbse,

Mine is temporarily down. I popped a controller out of stupidity. Several years ago I blasted up a continuous 20% and up grade mountain road with numerous switchbacks to visit the wind farm at the top with the same motor and controllers. After a day of riding around including moderate hills with my 100lb son aboard, I agreed to the foolish idea of doing that climb at night. Though ambient was a bit cooler, that was no match for the ill affects of cautious slow riding up a crazy steep road (ie spiking phase currents). One of the beautiful things about 6 phase is that despite a popped controller, we were able to gently ride home without issue.

Luckily I have an extra Zombiess high voltage 24fet if I can't repair the blown one. I needed to pull the battery rack anyway to finish the waterproofing.

One thing that's completely different is the ride experience compared when I had the exact motor and controllers and settings on a light frame. I've personally lost the same weight as the MadAss version gained in vehicle weight resulting in the same all up load. I get the same acceleration, but it doesn't feel like a wild horse trying to explode out from under me. The front end components are so heavy on the MadAss 125cc that I'd never use one for a similar build. Everything from the rim to the forks, fork clamps, brake caliper, and even the head tube are all greatly overbuilt and much heavier than on even larger motorcycles that I've cut up. I have a front end from another 125cc to use on a build coming up that will save over 15kg...even more it I go with a rim with spokes and a thinner tire.

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macribs   1 GW

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Re: Mid-mount Hubmonster Madass

Post by macribs » Jul 13 2018 9:02am

Dual controllers just rocks. Nice to be able to ride home even after a controller melt down rather the the shameful pushing of bike roadside.
Voltron wrote:
Mar 06 2018 12:59pm
Pretty hard to see how lingering behind the particular vehicle is going to up anybodys cancer rate...
Don't be so sure, I once got aids just from reading anal fixated insane posts on a forum. :lol:

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: Mid-mount Hubmonster Madass

Post by John in CR » Jul 13 2018 10:30pm

macribs wrote:
Jul 13 2018 9:02am
Dual controllers just rocks. Nice to be able to ride home even after a controller melt down rather the the shameful pushing of bike roadside.
Voltron wrote:
Mar 06 2018 12:59pm
Pretty hard to see how lingering behind the particular vehicle is going to up anybodys cancer rate...
Don't be so sure, I once got aids just from reading anal fixated insane posts on a forum. :lol:
I wouldn't even want to push a 3 phase that was handling close to 30kw peak if it had a blown controller unless I could disconnect the blow phases, since the resulting plug braking can be quite significant. These days I hard wire everything to avoid connector issues a common failure point, especially with heavy rain use like this year in the tropics. I didn't have wire cutters with me that night, so I took it real easy riding home to hopefully avoid further damage to the controller.

Running on just one controller is no problem with any of my 6 phase motors. I rode my daily commuter for a week running just one controller. It's just half the power. Quite often I turn one controller off for people wanting to take a test ride.

Worse than the walk of shame with a busted bike is pushing one home that's a bit mangled and you appear even more mangled due to the blood.

Ohbse   10 kW

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Re: Mid-mount Hubmonster Madass

Post by Ohbse » Jul 16 2018 5:25pm

With a blown controller here's your opportunity to try out something new! Over the years I've really come to value your advice and experience and have applied a lot of your accumulated lessons to my other rides. If I could give you one thing back in return, it's the huge impact of better controllers. It's a little more effort to set up, but so, so worth it in terms of control, smoothness, features.

My company has an office in CR - if I manage to justify a visit to replace their IT infrastructure I'll bring a couple of mobipus controllers in my luggage :)

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: Mid-mount Hubmonster Madass

Post by John in CR » Jul 18 2018 1:07am

I just have trouble getting past the price, especially since I need 2 per motor. Also, if I am going to spend $700-900 on a pair of controllers, I want high voltage so I can take full advantage of HubMonster. Someday I'll get what I want and run 200V for a lightweight 40-50kw emoto. :mrgreen:

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