Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Show off your E-Scooter or Motorcycle creation here.
Rovii   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 327
Joined: Mar 13 2017 7:39am

Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Feb 07 2020 1:00am

Motor has arrived
Attachments
38A585F7-7B74-42A2-A003-A8AC671275DF.jpeg
38A585F7-7B74-42A2-A003-A8AC671275DF.jpeg (135.5 KiB) Viewed 3355 times
24B462F6-F137-4641-AD24-93C2C36CF4E7.jpeg
24B462F6-F137-4641-AD24-93C2C36CF4E7.jpeg (127.06 KiB) Viewed 3355 times
Andre

- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

j bjork   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1127
Joined: Aug 31 2018 3:01pm
Location: Linköping, Sweden

Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by j bjork » Feb 07 2020 12:11pm

It looks like a beast :D

Is it totally custom made, or is it a model they have and wind to specification?

User avatar
macribs   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3696
Joined: Jul 22 2014 5:59pm

Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by macribs » Feb 08 2020 6:49am

Yeah I now see why you stretched the frame :D
Man that thing will fly down the strip.

Rovii   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 327
Joined: Mar 13 2017 7:39am

Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Feb 08 2020 9:51am

It’s 3Turn version. The windings were custom made to my specifications.
Standard value is 640Nm, my version should have a little bit over 700Nm ...
Andre

- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

Rovii   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 327
Joined: Mar 13 2017 7:39am

Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Feb 09 2020 11:50am

Maybe an installation version ....
But the motor must be lift up a little bit ...
Attachments
B6FDF074-BD3E-47A3-BC56-9BD1EAE0CD76.jpeg
B6FDF074-BD3E-47A3-BC56-9BD1EAE0CD76.jpeg (127.5 KiB) Viewed 3194 times
Andre

- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

boars   100 W

100 W
Posts: 198
Joined: Oct 02 2014 12:06am
Location: Brisbane Australia

Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by boars » Feb 09 2020 8:20pm

That is nothing short of epic :mrgreen:

Rovii   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 327
Joined: Mar 13 2017 7:39am

Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Feb 10 2020 11:12am

Ha ha,
Here is also a little clip:

Andre

- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

John in CR   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 14964
Joined: May 20 2008 12:58am
Location: Paradise

Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by John in CR » Feb 11 2020 12:04am

Wow! What are the dimensions of the stator on that beast of a motor (diameter and length)? Did they provide any motor specs like phase-to-phase resistance and no load current and rpm at a given voltage.

How will you mount the motor...extend the swingarm forward of the pivot so the motor doesn't act directly on the rear suspension?

You're going to have such a launch that I think you'll wish you made it even longer.

Rovii   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 327
Joined: Mar 13 2017 7:39am

Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Feb 11 2020 2:36am

Hello John,
pls find attached some motor specs (3Turn version).
Well I want to install the motor as shown in the short video clip.

The batteries should be installed in two boxes which will be hanging under the frame extension so that the motor will be hide a little bit!

That means that the whole mass of motor, controller and batteries will be sprung.

To install it insde the swingarm is not possible because then the rear wheel will not fit anymore inside the swingarm and the wheel base will be to big to get the power on the track.
Attachments
2020_02_11_08_26_47_PhE_Range_DE_Phi_Power_AG.jpg
2020_02_11_08_26_47_PhE_Range_DE_Phi_Power_AG.jpg (369.4 KiB) Viewed 3079 times
Andre

- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

John in CR   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 14964
Joined: May 20 2008 12:58am
Location: Paradise

Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by John in CR » Feb 11 2020 1:29pm

With such a low Kv of 7rpm/volt giving it the capability of running 850V and peak input current of at least 450A for such short runs, what voltage are you planning for the battery? What kind of gearing ratio do you plan to try, since for a top speed highway run that motor should be able to handle even a 1:1 .

I just wish I could be there to help as part of your crew and see it run in person. It's going to be awesome with traction probably your biggest issue.

Rovii   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 327
Joined: Mar 13 2017 7:39am

Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Feb 12 2020 12:36am

The controller max voltage is a little bit less than 800VDC.
So I will try to reach near to the max level but I will start first a lower voltage to some more experience.
Well the motor manufacturer told me that I can provide the full 600ARMS from controller to the motor.
The only thing I have to control is the max temperature of the windings which should not go higher than 145 degrees celsius.
Therefore they calculated a theoretically constant torque of 720Nm from 0-4K rpm. But that’s only theory!
I wanna use 1kW peltier Elements to cool down the motor and controller before a start. I am not sure it will work or not but if everything is going well I could cool down them to 10 degrees celsius.

And then we come to the transmission ratio!
I really don’t know the difference of Nm between a Hubmotor and the motor I have now!
My old hubmotor should have 400Nm at 600A peak current. I fed him with up to 899ARMS (1200A peak current). So QS motor calculated 550Nm max torque.
I made runs against 1000ccm motorcycles and they where much faster in accelleration than I!
Ok they have a gear box but nobody can tell me what kind of Nm they can provide at first gear!

I have heared stories about cars who can provide up to 3k Nm but ok they will be much heavier than my motorcycle! Or ducati which can provide up to 1200Nm in first gear ...

So my actually plan is to go first with a transmission of 19/45= 2,33 to see what happened @ 100A, 200A and so on. Maybe I will come to the point that 1:1 will be the best option later on as you recommend!

Well it would be nice to have you in my crew as a team member!
I will try to make as much videos as I can from the test runs I made to keep you and the others informed!
Andre

- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

John in CR   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 14964
Joined: May 20 2008 12:58am
Location: Paradise

Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by John in CR » Feb 12 2020 2:56am

For the gear ratio, the way I'd go about it would be to work backward from the top speed I want to achieve. What speed do the gassers reach that you want to beat?

Varsa   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 2
Joined: Dec 05 2018 6:37am

Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Varsa » Feb 12 2020 5:07am

Great to follow your progress!

It would be easy to estimate the max usable torque if you know the weight, tire radius and distance between the center of mass and the rear wheel.

Top speed isn't everything, well as long as it's a timed run and not a speed run. An extreme acceleration could still beat someone with a higher top speed over the line.

Rovii   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 327
Joined: Mar 13 2017 7:39am

Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Feb 12 2020 5:34am

Well, 270 kph will be a fantastic value!
So is there a percentage of no load vs load regarding speeds about 200kph?
I calculated 280kph at no load for my 163kg motorcycle with hubmotor and I reached 200,49 kph (GPS).
So I lost around 80kph inbetween.

At the end I will try to reach not more than 220kg. Actually the rolling chassie is about 73kg, the motor has 43kg and the controller 17kg= 133kg. Some material missing and the whole battery pack which I only calculated with 56kg. Means 189kg, so 31kg for the rest (Tank cover, open fairing, pumps, tubes, cabeling, mounting materieal ...

Actually I have 45 teeth for the rear sprocket and 19 teeth for the front (motor) sprocket.
The tyre radius is 31,6cm (12,44")
Well, the center off mass to rear wheel will be around 1m (40") but that value I have to guess.
Andre

- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

Frank   100 W

100 W
Posts: 240
Joined: Dec 10 2007 11:57am
Location: Maine/Nova Scotia

Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Frank » Feb 12 2020 12:26pm

I would suggest that you try to make the centerline of the motor as close to the OEM countershaft sprocket location as you can. The longer swingarm helps a lot of course. What is the wheelbase now?

Also, if there are any 1/8-mile (200 m) drag strips nearby, those might be a better venue for you. Still plenty fast and less energy consumed. True Cousins does most of their racing at an 1/8-mile strip (so do I).
Frank

Rovii   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 327
Joined: Mar 13 2017 7:39am

Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Feb 12 2020 11:27pm

Hi Frank,
Of course, I want to install the motor as close as possible to the OEM sprocket position but the radius of the motor will determine the position at the end.

Actually the wheel base is 16” over (mainframe 10” + 6” swingarm.

Well it’s hard to find 1/4 mile races here in GER.
I can use an airport landing field (1,1km lenght) for testing the motorcycle later on, as I did it in the past.
Additional I can use the dragy device to get some information about the times, speed and so on.
Andre

- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

Frank   100 W

100 W
Posts: 240
Joined: Dec 10 2007 11:57am
Location: Maine/Nova Scotia

Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Frank » Feb 13 2020 12:56am

So wheelbase must be about 70"/175 cm? Do you have a link to the torque/power curve as a function of voltage?

Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk

Frank

User avatar
madin88   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3120
Joined: May 27 2013 2:02am
Location: Austria

Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by madin88 » Feb 13 2020 4:55am

Rovii wrote:
Feb 12 2020 11:27pm
Hi Frank,
Of course, I want to install the motor as close as possible to the OEM sprocket position but the radius of the motor will determine the position at the end.
If the chainline is above the swingarm pivot it will compress the rear suspension during acceleration (you would loose grip, seat goes down, bike tends to wheelie more i think).
So it cannot harm to have it below the pivot for drag racing, or do i miss something?

Awesome setup btw, is this a Yasa motor?

Rovii   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 327
Joined: Mar 13 2017 7:39am

Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Feb 13 2020 5:13am

Well the chain line should be in same position as the original one. I have to bring it in line with the swing arm pivot!
But the sprocket will be a little bit going to the front.
So I need a longer chain.

PhE 381 from Phi Power Ag

Thanks!
Andre

- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

Varsa   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 2
Joined: Dec 05 2018 6:37am

Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Varsa » Feb 13 2020 10:08am

Rovii wrote:
Feb 12 2020 5:34am
Well, 270 kph will be a fantastic value!
So is there a percentage of no load vs load regarding speeds about 200kph?
I calculated 280kph at no load for my 163kg motorcycle with hubmotor and I reached 200,49 kph (GPS).
So I lost around 80kph inbetween.

At the end I will try to reach not more than 220kg. Actually the rolling chassie is about 73kg, the motor has 43kg and the controller 17kg= 133kg. Some material missing and the whole battery pack which I only calculated with 56kg. Means 189kg, so 31kg for the rest (Tank cover, open fairing, pumps, tubes, cabeling, mounting materieal ...

Actually I have 45 teeth for the rear sprocket and 19 teeth for the front (motor) sprocket.
The tyre radius is 31,6cm (12,44")
Well, the center off mass to rear wheel will be around 1m (40") but that value I have to guess.
The achievable speed is not related to the no load speed at all, except it needs to be higher then the desired speed but how far into Field Weakening is of course also of relevance.
What decides the speed is the torque produced at the rear wheel and thus the force that is produced at the contact patch. The wheel torque is not only calculated by the motor torque and gearing but lower due to some losses in the transmission.
The achievable speed is the balance between the force produced by the motor on the contact patch and the rolling resistance of the wheels, bearings and also the aerodynamic drag.

Frank   100 W

100 W
Posts: 240
Joined: Dec 10 2007 11:57am
Location: Maine/Nova Scotia

Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Frank » Feb 13 2020 2:57pm

^^ Correct. The generally accepted rule-of-thumb is that it takes about 200 hp to go 200 mph in a bike with reasonable aerodynamics. Your output of course will be a function of voltage which is why I was interested in those curves. I searched but couldn't find anything other than "typical" values which mean little if you don't know what the system voltage is.

I'm loving this project BTW! You're doing some things that I've only thought about before, keep up the great work!
Frank

SRFirefox   1 W

1 W
Posts: 55
Joined: Apr 24 2019 7:27pm

Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by SRFirefox » Feb 13 2020 4:27pm

Once you know the no-load current draw at low and high RPM, this can be refined for eddy and hysteresis torques, and of course it assumes no field-weakening (is your motor IPM?), but something for you to mess around a bit with for your bike. I assumed 196 cells charged to 4.1V @ 5Ah and guessed at a best case high-quality cell internal resistance. And, of course, real-world measurements can help you refine your Cd as well.

https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.h ... black=load

Rovii   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 327
Joined: Mar 13 2017 7:39am

Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Feb 16 2020 12:47am

Thanks 😊
Well yes, my motor is IPM.
So at the end you think 5 Ah will be enough with high quality LiPos like the sleeper cell‘s from LV Lonestar?
I know there are existing 100/200C and 125/250C cells!
But to get it here to GER they will be very expensive!
I know, they are good quality I think.
But first let me play with my old stuff/batteries. Actually my Intension is to get the motor with sprocket inside the frame.
Then the controller and after that the fuel tank cover dummy.
Btw I already experimented how it could be designed ...
I know not perfect but to get you a feeling how it looks like more or less later on ...
I wanna use the same tube dimension (1“) as for the rear tail. Closed on the top to lay down on it with carbon plates and open side’s.
Attachments
E52916E0-626D-462F-845D-F148A942B2E0.jpeg
E52916E0-626D-462F-845D-F148A942B2E0.jpeg (112.31 KiB) Viewed 2640 times
4087EA32-AA93-45AC-AF7C-62B1D27F5527.jpeg
4087EA32-AA93-45AC-AF7C-62B1D27F5527.jpeg (128.32 KiB) Viewed 2640 times
E3DD7083-39C9-4F47-AF17-C95F6E8E0801.jpeg
E3DD7083-39C9-4F47-AF17-C95F6E8E0801.jpeg (147.07 KiB) Viewed 2640 times
Andre

- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

SRFirefox   1 W

1 W
Posts: 55
Joined: Apr 24 2019 7:27pm

Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by SRFirefox » Feb 17 2020 6:43pm

My best answer is I don't know. Arlo has mentioned some lightweight race cells in his CRX build thread. But if you have a set of batteries on hand that you can run the motor on, even if it's a much lower voltage than you want, you can get some good data from running as-is. 1.5 milliohms per cell may be optimistic for a 5Ah cell. Measuring a real cell after a handful of hard cycles to break it in would give you the best answer to that question. It will be a balance between weight, voltage drop, and battery wear/sturdiness.

Rovii   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 327
Joined: Mar 13 2017 7:39am

Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Feb 18 2020 3:03am

Yes, the same cell type I am talking about.
Got a picture from John about the power output.
So one cell can deliver 1,5kW over 10 seconds but as I said not cheap to realise a 800V (5 Ah) battery pack!
It wil cost more than the motor!
Andre

- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

Post Reply