Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Lebowski » Aug 11, 2017 3:10 am

Rovii wrote:My problem is that I have ordered a 144V motor after I asked Kelly Controls for the most powerful controller.
That´s why they recommend me KHB14601. But it seems that this "old/new" controller type has some internal problems!
Kelly Controls have also KLS96600 (600A) phase current. But with this "low" voltage I will never reach max turns (1740@144V ==> Kv=12,08).
BTW the motor can handle up to 703A for 3 seconds and 563A for 30 seconds (manufactures statement), so I can go with 600A for the short distance (402m) on the motor.
Well I hope that KLS14401 will now work proper. I will see it.
By next winter I will change the controller again to water cooled Emsiso emDrive500 (125V, 500A/800A, 62kW cont/100kW peak).
So next year I am able to kill the motor :wink:
With 125V I will also not reach the top speed but this controller has field weakening option.
Doesn't the Kelly controller do field weakening ?

P.S. ook een hollander ?

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Aug 11, 2017 3:30 am

No, Kelly do not have this function.
I am from GER :)
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by liveforphysics » Aug 11, 2017 2:47 pm

Rovii wrote:My problem is that I have ordered a 144V motor after I asked Kelly Controls for the most powerful controller.
That´s why they recommend me KHB14601. But it seems that this "old/new" controller type has some internal problems!
Kelly Controls have also KLS96600 (600A) phase current. But with this "low" voltage I will never reach max turns (1740@144V ==> Kv=12,08).
BTW the motor can handle up to 703A for 3 seconds and 563A for 30 seconds (manufactures statement), so I can go with 600A for the short distance (402m) on the motor.
Well I hope that KLS14401 will now work proper. I will see it.
By next winter I will change the controller again to water cooled Emsiso emDrive500 (125V, 500A/800A, 62kW cont/100kW peak).
So next year I am able to kill the motor :wink:
With 125V I will also not reach the top speed but this controller has field weakening option.
I think you're much more controller limited than motor limited in your quarter mile run (just my hunch).

I have a motor that's exactly half your motors width (mine is wound for 16.8rpm/Volt), and when I get back to Santa Cruz from my current work trip, I will throw it on a big power supply and find out what phase current level is where the knee of the iron saturation curve begins, and drive it into saturation a good deal and see what the slope looks like and peak torque values it holds before hopping a pole.

This info should be useful in making informed controller selections for everyone running 273 v3 QS motors, and should give you and idea of what the right controller could drop your 60ft time and 1/4mile time.

If this bike is a hotrod and you're looking for an upgrade project, you could potentially rewind it to yield whatever speed at whatever voltage you like, and/or split the motor phase leads up and run 6 or 9 sets out to enable running multiple controllers.

Edit. *** In case it sounds quick or easy to do, I would personally estimate at least 40hrs of project time to rewind, and if you don't do an excellent job you have to start over.
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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Aug 11, 2017 3:29 pm

Hi Luke,
Thanks for your information!
The motor is only a compromise solution in this bike.
My plan is to go later on with Emrax motor LV version (2xUVW).
And the Emsiso controller are a good solution to power up this motor type!
The other think is that this Emsiso controller can handle this motor easy.
But the prices for this motor/ controller combination is mot low. So I have to save money first and get the stuff step by step.
First controller will be ordered by September, second by January/February 2018 and motor on January/February 2019.
Additionally I want to change swing arm, wheels and also need a fixing plate for motor, sprockets and chain.
I have to implement a water cooling system for controllers and have to update the batteries.
I hope to be ready by mid of 2019 ... latest beginning of 2020.
So my plan!
In the time in between I will play with my actually motor!
BTW if you drive the magnets into saturation of 273 V3 motor you will destroy it!
My motor has 80mm high of magnets. Does it mean my magnets can be powered with more phase current for longer time!
Well I think 800 phase amps is enough for the motor and out of range of manufacturer statement (703A for 3 seconds).
I have no experience in updating a motor and I asked some people who can do this and always got the same answer. No experience with 2xUVW! I also have to change the sensor from hall to cos/sin, than two Emsisos can work in parallel!
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by liveforphysics » Aug 11, 2017 5:29 pm

The iron will saturate well before any permanent damage happens to magnets that are <100degC temperature.

Saturation of the iron is ideally what a drag vehicle should be doing for as long of the quarter mile as it has controller and battery to keep possible.

I think the motor you have today has meaningfully more potential in it with the right controller. I've personally yet to see a Kelly ever dyno more than disappointment, even with motors capable of non-disapointment.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Aug 12, 2017 5:26 pm

So let's wait until September, as I said 800A phase current should give hinter right punch.
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Aug 17, 2017 1:48 am

Yesterday was an excellent day.
The most important thing was that controller do not switch off the power during full acceleration.
The 400A phase current accelerate the motor cycle with 7 seconds from 0-100 kph.
After 360m I reached 167 kph, after 410m I reached 178 kph an after 740m ...
Attachments
Top Speed_klein.jpg
Top Speed_klein.jpg (132.32 KiB) Viewed 305 times
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Lebowski » Aug 17, 2017 3:28 am

Rovii wrote:No, Kelly do not have this function.
I am from GER :)
we cannot all be perfect :mrgreen:

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Aug 18, 2017 1:41 am

I know :?

FInd attached the measurement values from Mr. Garmin during this run, to see actually distance and speed/time.

A direct comparison between KHB and KLS controller will be available on 8-10. th September
Attachments
IMG_0821.JPG
IMG_0821.JPG (120.63 KiB) Viewed 1080 times
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Aug 31, 2017 10:33 pm

On next weekend I hopefully will get some values of BMW C evolution on 1/8 mile and can compare it to mine:
http://www.bikeexif.com/custom-bmw-c-evolution
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Sep 05, 2017 11:44 pm

So the event with BMW C evolution was only a classic event, two in, one out :( (without time slip).

For some coins I got now a new fairing ... but also there is some work to do, the lamps get out and a cover plate will be insert!
Attachments
IMG_0903.JPG
Carbon fairing
IMG_0903.JPG (224.74 KiB) Viewed 929 times
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Sep 14, 2017 10:24 pm

Yesterday a nice wooden box with branding reached me.
Now it's possible for me to push up to 100kW peak power to my 14/34 kW motor.
The magic words name was Emsiso (emDrive500).
Attachments
IMG_1024.JPG
62/100kW (125DC/800A), field weakening option
IMG_1024.JPG (98.53 KiB) Viewed 882 times
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by marcexec » Sep 15, 2017 2:59 am

Shiny, I'm very envious :mrgreen:
Let us know how the programming / interfacing goes, maybe start a separate thread.
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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Sep 16, 2017 12:11 am

Yes I will inform you here about the building and parameterisation. But I will implement this controller earliest during winter time, starting in October/November this year.
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Sep 19, 2017 2:57 am

Now I have to build the cables for controller of my own.
They are not part of delivery. So I have to order a 35 pin sealamp connector a.s.o.!
But I have now access to the software :-)
Btw also an Oehlins rear suspension reached me, hopefully to work proper in the motorcycle!
Attachments
IMG_1041a.jpg
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Sep 27, 2017 10:38 pm

Now I reduce the capacitor weight from 1600 gram to 670 gram.
Attachments
IMG_1094.JPG
IMG_1094.JPG (96.51 KiB) Viewed 768 times
IMG_1064.JPG
IMG_1064.JPG (91.68 KiB) Viewed 767 times
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Oct 04, 2017 3:54 am

400A are too weak for the 14kW motor.
So I run the 1/4 mile on 15,380 seconds.
But the KLS controller do not interrupt the run with switch offs as the KHB controller (600A) did.
So I get out with new top speed record @ 107,1 mph (172,37 kph).
A very good result at the end of my season.
Now I can continue with rebuilding the motorcycle.
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by John in CR » Oct 06, 2017 9:42 pm

I thought you hit 200kph earlier?

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Oct 07, 2017 12:00 am

So if you see the table above and have a look into it you will see that I need 740m to get the top speed of 200kph.
The table show also that I reach after 360m around 167kph and after 410m 178 kph.
The 1/4 mile is around 402m.
So it was clear to me regarding the environment conditions that I will be in this speed range.
So 172,37 kph is absolutely ok for me with only "400A".
Let's see next year what happened when I put up to 800A on it!
But I will start with 450A first and check out temperature curve of motor!
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Oct 26, 2017 3:10 am

In the mean time I have already installed the new controller temporary and have now 1st success with parameterization. And I already started to implement the first carbon equipment.
Attachments
Parameter Settings 010a.jpg
Parameter Settings 010a.jpg (196.88 KiB) Viewed 302 times
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by liveforphysics » Oct 26, 2017 3:17 am

It's going to be so much faster once you can get that controller to unlock its power potential.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Oct 26, 2017 5:04 am

liveforphysics wrote:It's going to be so much faster once you can get that controller to unlock its power potential.
I know, but to lower weight will also be another add on.
Well I also know, that lower own weight will be an add too but I think i´s not possible for me to get much lighter at the moment. I am riding 150km/per week manually with my road bike. So I lost near to 10kg the last year and now it´s more or less constant!
I also like the look of Carbon ;-)
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Nov 08, 2017 6:23 am

After short parameterization I started now to rebuild the motorcycle!
So controller is already re installed and today I want to re install the hubmotor!
Step by step ...
Attachments
Arosa - Mia - Wien 113a.jpg
Arosa - Mia - Wien 113a.jpg (220.46 KiB) Viewed 301 times
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by Rovii » Nov 08, 2017 10:22 pm

... and after a short while ...
Attachments
27D5AF5D-C9B0-4B40-AA9D-ED75236E6EFA.jpeg
27D5AF5D-C9B0-4B40-AA9D-ED75236E6EFA.jpeg (117.6 KiB) Viewed 380 times
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Post by liveforphysics » Nov 09, 2017 1:33 am

Excited to see how it pulls lighter with way more controller feeding it.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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