Page 6 of 8

Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Posted: Jan 16, 2018 12:06 am
by John in CR
I only got to 172kph, but that was at about 700m (not a mile) where I let off the throttle due to what appeared to be something on the road, so it had a bit more to give. I had already ridden a couple of miles to get to the start point, so voltage was down a bit and motor wasn't cold. I'm hoping my current build will top out above 180, due to a 3% increase in pack voltage (31s instead of 30s), a stiffer pack (less sag), and a 6% bigger wheel. While the bigger wheel seems to contradict what I always say about wheel size, my motor was unstressed before, and I believe my greater attention to aero and personal weight loss will more than offset the negatives of higher gearing. My biggest problem is finding a good place and time for a real top speed run.

Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Posted: Jan 16, 2018 2:06 am
by Rovii
Well as you can see in my signature I need 740m (around 20 seconds) for reaching 200,49 kph with the 400 phase amp controller but with 42S battery pack.
Now I will reduce the battery pack to 30S (25 Ah) but I will have up to 800 phase amps.
Ok my motor will not turn as fast as before but I hope to get up to 160 kph with much better acceleration!
But first let me build up my new design motorcycle!
For testing: Do you have an airplane field next to you?
Well I can test my vehicle at this area!
People are very interested in to see my motorcycle running (no noise, no combustion ...).
That´s the reason I can do it there.

Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Posted: Jan 16, 2018 11:10 pm
by John in CR
Rovii wrote:
Jan 16, 2018 2:06 am
Well as you can see in my signature I need 740m (around 20 seconds) for reaching 200,49 kph with the 400 phase amp controller but with 42S battery pack.
Now I will reduce the battery pack to 30S (25 Ah) but I will have up to 800 phase amps.
Ok my motor will not turn as fast as before but I hope to get up to 160 kph with much better acceleration!
But first let me build up my new design motorcycle!
For testing: Do you have an airplane field next to you?
Well I can test my vehicle at this area!
People are very interested in to see my motorcycle running (no noise, no combustion ...).
That´s the reason I can do it there.
How about some battery amp numbers? While the motor only sees phase amps, they're just for show. Battery amps are for go, because you can't turn anything into power unless even more power comes out of the battery. In addition, there's now way us common folks can measure phase amps, and there's multiple ways to quote them (eg peak limit or rms). You can bet your bottom dollar that Kelly, who's well know for inflated specs isn't talking about rms and peak is meaningless.

There's no doubt your motor can handle more current, but if you're really serious about getting the most out of it, then you need the high voltage and high current. Actually, an even higher voltage than you ran along with a smaller wheel, so you can hit the 200 in 400m or less. Once you surpass LFP's time with a hubbie, then he'll get serious and give us a crazy mid-drive drag bike to ogle.

I'm just glad to see someone get serious with a beast of a hubbie. Hopefully my complacency is finally at an end, so I can try to top it by building a dual HubMonster bike running a 150V+ pack to demonstrate what's possible with a daily rider setup that sends gassers running away with tails between their legs. My little commuter scooter kinda does that now, but the liter bikes get pissed off and come screaming by within 100-150m. It takes the regular motos at least a kilometer

Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Posted: Jan 17, 2018 1:15 am
by Rovii
Well I am using Turnigy Heavy Duty 6S 5000mAh (60/120C).
I tested on battery with over 200A for short.
In my last setup I worked with 175V DC (fully charged) 20Ah.
So I think to have enough power for the short run.
You are right I only posted the numbers of Kelly´s data specification.
Now I bought me a measurement device which can measure up to 1500A AC/DC to check out which amps the Emsiso controller will give out and then I can compare it to my settings.
So let´s wait until I can start with testings.
BTW the hubmotor was foreseen for a bicycle not a heavy motorcycle. Therefore I will change later on back to mid drive system.
But also there I only want to play with only 125V DC not more! I alos know, that real drag bikes running @ 400-600V DC and around 2000A but that´s another league. So at the end of planning with my motorcycle I hopefully will reach the 200kW but that will take some years! Next year I want to start with the middrive system and this year I hopefully will have fun with the hubmotor.

Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Posted: Jan 22, 2018 1:32 am
by Rovii
I know everybody knows how a GSXR K2 looks like.
And I am coming closer and closer to the finish look.

Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Posted: Jan 26, 2018 2:52 am
by Rovii
After additional rebuild also the additional frame get´s black color now
IMG_2488.JPG
IMG_2488.JPG (142.68 KiB) Viewed 1511 times
Got also new swing arm for next project phase in autumn ...
IMG_2205a.jpg
IMG_2205a.jpg (161.52 KiB) Viewed 294 times

Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Posted: Jan 26, 2018 4:00 am
by liveforphysics
Rovii wrote:
Jan 17, 2018 1:15 am
Well I am using Turnigy Heavy Duty 6S 5000mAh (60/120C).
I tested on battery with over 200A for short.
In my last setup I worked with 175V DC (fully charged) 20Ah.
So I think to have enough power for the short run.
You are right I only posted the numbers of Kelly´s data specification.
Now I bought me a measurement device which can measure up to 1500A AC/DC to check out which amps the Emsiso controller will give out and then I can compare it to my settings.
So let´s wait until I can start with testings.
BTW the hubmotor was foreseen for a bicycle not a heavy motorcycle. Therefore I will change later on back to mid drive system.
But also there I only want to play with only 125V DC not more! I alos know, that real drag bikes running @ 400-600V DC and around 2000A but that´s another league. So at the end of planning with my motorcycle I hopefully will reach the 200kW but that will take some years! Next year I want to start with the middrive system and this year I hopefully will have fun with the hubmotor.
I would bump that pack up to 30Ah, by adding ~10Ah of packs in the 1.5-2.5Ah range of the same series of high C-rate cell. This is just because while the 5Ah cells themselves handle the discharge pretty decently, the soldered busing and discharge lead solder joints tend to come un-soldered from them, hence using whatever is the smallest Ah super-high C-rate cell with the largest discharge leads. Should make the setup more reliable and improve your trap speed significantly from reduced sag.
Bike looks like a rocket, excited to see it run like one!

Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Posted: Jan 26, 2018 6:37 am
by Rovii
Hey Luke,
thanks for this information but for this year I have finished my plans regarding battery box and battery types.
But for autumn I will take your information into consideration.
There are only 2,2Ah packages with 4S.
Maybe I have to reduce the max voltage than to 28S!
Now I am playing with 5x6S, where I want to charge the 5th package only to 4,1 V/cell that I do not reach the max voltage of 125V.
I hope to get it running within the next 4 weeks and want to start the first tests in March/April.
I also know that everybody who will see this bike expect absolute top results but 14kW continuous power /34kW peak is too less for that motorcycle!
So next year I want to start with Emrax 228 and hope to get better results with this solution.
Maybe I will implement the hubmotor to my bicycle but actually I do not really know!

Andre

Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Posted: Jan 26, 2018 8:28 am
by SlowCo
It seems you have enough room on top of the swing arm just in front of the rear tire to add a "mid"drive motor with a chain to the hub motor. That motor would also put some extra weight on the rear tire. A used motor and controller from a Zero motorcycle would be perfect. But even a 110V brushed motor with at least 10kW rating would be great. And with an additional brushed motor you wouldn't even need a controller just a contacter and a switch. This way you can keep your current set up and just "add on" :twisted:

Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Posted: Jan 26, 2018 9:37 am
by toolman2
SlowCo wrote:
Jan 26, 2018 8:28 am
It seems you have enough room on top of the swing arm just in front of the rear tire to add a "mid"drive motor with a chain to the hub motor. That motor would also put some extra weight on the rear tire. A used motor and controller from a Zero motorcycle would be perfect. But even a 110V brushed motor with at least 10kW rating would be great. And with an additional brushed motor you wouldn't even need a controller just a contacter and a switch. This way you can keep your current set up and just "add on" :twisted:
I think a controller might still be a good idea, limiting the current to a motors maximum saturated torque output has zero loss in output and would make the pass faster further down the line from less current draw, sag and heat through the whole system.

It would be interesting to have a look at the motors resistance and feed that 110v and you may get thousands of amps off the line that could be a bit thermally challenging for those discharge lead solder joints. :wink:

-edit; just remembered you have 110v mains in the US, so you might mean a hefty but high resistance mains motor i spose.

Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Posted: Jan 28, 2018 1:33 am
by Rovii
First cabeling of 50mm2 is done

https://youtu.be/RMGvVQfVjRA[/youtube]
Sorry, only in German language!

Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Posted: Jan 28, 2018 3:29 am
by Lebowski
Hmmm, so the bat positive exits on one side of the battery straight to the controller, while bat negative wraps around the batterybox and goes underneath to the controller. Thus maximising inductance... :(

Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Posted: Jan 28, 2018 5:24 am
by Rovii
Only 5 cm difference in length

Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Posted: Jan 28, 2018 4:08 pm
by Lebowski
Its not the length that counts, but the circumvence.... where have i heard that one before ?

The area enclosed by the current counts for the inductance. This is why busbars are so low inductance, they enclose virtually no area.

Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Posted: Jan 28, 2018 9:59 pm
by liveforphysics
Rovii wrote:
Jan 26, 2018 6:37 am
Hey Luke,
thanks for this information but for this year I have finished my plans regarding battery box and battery types.
But for autumn I will take your information into consideration.
There are only 2,2Ah packages with 4S.
Maybe I have to reduce the max voltage than to 28S!
Now I am playing with 5x6S, where I want to charge the 5th package only to 4,1 V/cell that I do not reach the max voltage of 125V.
I hope to get it running within the next 4 weeks and want to start the first tests in March/April.
I also know that everybody who will see this bike expect absolute top results but 14kW continuous power /34kW peak is too less for that motorcycle!
So next year I want to start with Emrax 228 and hope to get better results with this solution.
Maybe I will implement the hubmotor to my bicycle but actually I do not really know!

Andre


You've got a pretty solid copper mass and iron mass advantage over an Emrax, and potentially a dragbike with no drivetrain failures or drama or sprocket changes ever needed. The Emrax is capable of swinging the field in it's mass of iron more often for a given vehicle speed, effectively like usage frequency per mass of iron is better. However, for drag racing, they don't even run liquid coolant in the blocks because it's over before it would circulate through a radiator anyways, and I think EV drag will end up the same way where ultimately no replacement for copper mass, iron mass and all the phase current state of the air semi-conductor tech and power EE current control skills can support.

Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Posted: Jan 29, 2018 2:45 am
by Rovii
Ok, you mean that old school technic with brushed fork lift motors and Zilla2K controller will be the better solution for drag racing.
Is this correct?
But I don´t want to play with voltages up to 400V and higher and also the weight of the motors are extremely high!
I also asked QS Motors to make me a 6 phase hubmotor but they don´t have any experience with this and do not want to manufacture it for me.
Do you know an address, where I can found a good powerfull hubmotor (6 phase version) which can handle up to 1600A @ 125V DC max, maybe a little bit less (e.g. 96V) with RLS RM44AC feedback sensor?

Thanks for your friendly assist.
Kind regards from GER

Andre

Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Posted: Jan 29, 2018 7:45 am
by Rovii
Lebowski wrote:
Jan 28, 2018 4:08 pm
Its not the length that counts, but the circumvence.... where have i heard that one before ?

The area enclosed by the current counts for the inductance. This is why busbars are so low inductance, they enclose virtually no area.
Well I think my English is to bad! I do not really understand it.
Here you see a picture of the controller. The battery box is direct above it.
Should I go with bat- in parallel with Bat+ on one side of battery box?
Both cables goes direct down to the corresponding connection points of the controller.
I will get problems with 50mm² cable if I run parallel with bat+, latest when I try to get the radius behind the seal amp connector!

Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Posted: Jan 30, 2018 5:47 am
by Rovii
Install now new expansion tank for cooling system (nice to have feature).

Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Posted: Feb 05, 2018 2:31 am
by Rovii
Another update for later change back to chain drive.

Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Posted: Feb 08, 2018 2:50 am
by Rovii
Change now the cheap car hifi terminals with his tiny screws to a solid 50mm x 10mm copper bus bar to prevent burning cables!

Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Posted: Feb 18, 2018 11:32 pm
by Rovii
So last weekend I finished cabling.
Waiting now on some fuses, front wheel and carbon rear rail fairing.

Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Posted: Feb 24, 2018 6:56 am
by Rovii
Have to lower the front!

Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Posted: Feb 26, 2018 3:46 am
by John in CR
Rovii wrote:
Feb 24, 2018 6:56 am
Have to lower the front!
Looks badass!!!

Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Posted: Feb 26, 2018 4:14 am
by Rovii
Thx John,
But as I said I have to lower the front.
This happens now via reducing the fork suspension to 45mm and additional 2cm trough the fork bridge.
The point was that the front fender will not fit anymore to the design cause the used tire Hoosier 22/2.5-17 on 3.5x17 PVM rim is 5cm smaller in diameter than standard 120/70-17 tire.
I had 6cm distance between tire surface and fender.
Also lowering the fender will not work (looks terrible).
So I will left the fender out and try to get him as deep as possible (5cm distance between tire surface and under fork bridge).
From electrical point of view everything is working but I also have to maintain the water cooling system (hopefully no leakage).
And actually I am waiting on the fork dampers.

Re: Andre´s GSXR 1000 K2 with QS Motor 273 80H, 34kW

Posted: Mar 03, 2018 8:45 am
by Rovii
Ready for 2k18