Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

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litespeed   100 kW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by litespeed » Jul 05 2018 9:14am

Maybe QS would be interested in sponsoring you since your racing their motor? They seam to be into that on their web site.

Couldn’t hurt to ask and all it does is help their business & the electrical revolution.

Tom
I'm married so you know I'm no stranger to pain!

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Jul 06 2018 11:07pm

Well I wrote them now two emails by asking for sponsoring ( cause in the past they said to me I can reach 150-160kph top speed at 144V, well I reached 170kph with actually controller @ 117V and even 200,49kph @ 175V DC!
Another story, I wrote that they calculated an acceleration of 5,xx seconds for their more new powerful motor and I did it in 4,4 seconds with my older, weaker motor (less copper) inside my heavy motorcycle (360lbs).
They also calculated that I could reach the 1/4 mile within 13,5 seconds and I did it in 12,2 seconds!
Well I send them all video clips and GPS tracked records incl. Official time slips.

I also asked for help of opening the destroyed motor.
But actually they don’t answer me anymore.
Waiting now more than one week for an answer of one of my emails!

So what would you think about this company?

But I am pretty sure when I will ask for an offer they will answer me directly. So maybe you can try it by asking for a 273 80H 120V Version , Kv=16,7, 1200A water cooled version with sin/cos feedback!
I am pretty sure they will send you an offer latest one day later!

I think they are chinese business men only want profit by selling their products!
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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parabellum   10 MW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by parabellum » Jul 07 2018 12:18am

What is the problem to open the motor?
Normally you pry open one side cover (hammer and chisel) , which is glued on normally, as usual, then push out stator, if needed, with some tool or just jumping on the tire with axle on the floor.
Please submit some pictures, you are facing a problem that was resolved dozens of times on this forum for sure.

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by John in CR » Jul 07 2018 4:21am

Rovii wrote:
Jul 03 2018 7:10am
What can I do to get faster?
Decrease wheel diameter by 20% and increase voltage by 40%. That will make your bike accelerate harder, to a higher top speed, and it will be more durable. If you want to get serious, then figure out how to cut some significant weight. No need for water cooling for a drag bike as the heat conduction path is too slow. If you want to dissipate some heat from the windings during your run, then open the motor with intake holes on one side and exhaust holes at the perimeter of the other side cover with centrifugal fan blades in front of each exhaust vent to stimulate air flow.
Last edited by John in CR on Jul 07 2018 4:46am, edited 1 time in total.

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macribs   1 GW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by macribs » Jul 07 2018 4:30am

I would try more patience, remember you are most likely emailing with a sales rep. And most likely they don't have the option to decide to sponsor or not. So you inquiry for sponsorship most likely must up the corporate ladder. How many flight of stairs I have no idea of the details of Chinese company lines of commands, but it is not even sure the head of sales are able to grant sponsor deals for foreign customers without checking in with someone higher ranking. This kind of request can easily be put aside if more pressing matter occur. My tip, wait a few more weeks then contact them again. Their domestic market is so huge it is almost impossible to phantom, so even if sponsoring is something they are used to on their domestic market I am not sure such a request from a foreign customer is customary so they might not even know how to deal with your request straight on.

I am sure they will get back to you in due time.

Btw, did you remember to link to your thread here at ES? At least those at sales are familiar with ES, might be easier if they got all needed details and can see the amount of work and detailing you put into your project. Maybe you can photoshop a big and tasty QS motor logo onto one of your best pics of the bike and send them?

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Jul 07 2018 8:02am

Well, with hammer and chisel we opened the motor.
So you can see the black fried windings from 7-9 o‘clock. On the first picture you can see some loose copper pieces inside the housing, next to the magnates.
So next week I will be informed about the possibility that somebody will/can rewind the motor ...
Attachments
FF5B0432-6A0D-49D4-BF18-A92EFC70D70D.jpeg
FF5B0432-6A0D-49D4-BF18-A92EFC70D70D.jpeg (111.61 KiB) Viewed 821 times
BAAF2A42-7853-4880-82AD-76DB98000331.jpeg
BAAF2A42-7853-4880-82AD-76DB98000331.jpeg (107.01 KiB) Viewed 821 times
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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liveforphysics   100 GW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by liveforphysics » Jul 07 2018 8:08am

That looks like mechanical failure that lead to arcing. Motor doesn't look like it's coils have ever been hot.
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Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by litespeed » Jul 07 2018 8:48am

Agreed....looks like something was bouncing around in there causing havoc. Wonder what that could have been? Since the magnetic ring is OK it might just be easier to order a new stator to your specs?

Tom
I'm married so you know I'm no stranger to pain!

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Jul 07 2018 10:06am

Here a more clear picture that shows that only the winding is black in a part area
Attachments
584E713E-1937-44A2-B7EE-8E4AB3C8DFAB.jpeg
584E713E-1937-44A2-B7EE-8E4AB3C8DFAB.jpeg (159.13 KiB) Viewed 809 times
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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liveforphysics   100 GW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by liveforphysics » Jul 07 2018 5:59pm

You didn't reach the power limits of the motor, but ate some debris or had end turn winding chaffing or a chunk of magnet or a screw/nut came loose inside and mechanically damaged it until shorting out.

The good news is, feed that motor more power (after rewinding or swapping etc).
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by John in CR » Jul 07 2018 8:02pm

+1 with LFP's advice. Do the stator up properly and you can feed it more amps. Add in a decreased wheel diameter and increase the voltage by a greater % and something well under 11 seconds is perfectly reasonable. I'm fairly certain my HubMonster motors are capable of a 12s qtr, and yours is well over twice the motor.

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by John in CR » Jul 07 2018 8:29pm

Now that I think about it, some kind of winding defect fried that stator. Get with someone in a supervisor/manager role to take care of you. You deserve a replacement stator free of charge, however, the incremental costs of return get higher than I would pay. They should actually want to inspect it and unwind what's left to figure out where they (not you) went wrong. In the interest of maintaining and further developing good relations with them, offer on your side to include "QS Motor" and/or (if they prefer) some logo of theirs on your bike if they quickly get you taken care of in order to not lose the summer season. Quick is in their best interest too in terms of promo from both a customer svc perspective and getting their name back on the track sooner for the advertising benefit.

If you handle your side well (be sure to use courtesy and respect, eg "please help" works worlds better than "You f'd up and I demand a replacement") it will be a great test of QS's customer service. FWIW, asking for free stuff like sponsorship is a waste of time with the Chinese. Only a Chinese native is going to get that, like when they took their scooters long distance through China including across mountainous terrain.

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Jul 09 2018 12:58am

Hello John,
today I wrote a respectful email to QS-Motor and waiting now on their answer and hopefully a good solution how to handle with this issue!
I also checked the video and upload it to YouTube:
https://youtu.be/J9AhkME0nYg
So there was a terrible noise before it comes to the short circuit!

If it comes now to the point they will say ok we will ship you another rotor/motor, what ever I will have some questions to you and the other guys here:

1. Feedback sensor: Which sensor type will be the better one for the high current and therefore force of the magnetic fields inside the winding (Hall feedback sensor or sin/cos feedback sensor)?

2. To increase the voltage is not possible for me but I can order the motor as a lower voltage version! My actually motor has a Kv of 12,02 (144V version). I checked Emrax LV version motors and they are around Kv=34-40 and works perfect with my Emsiso controller. So I can order a 96V version of that 273 80H motor and run it on 118V DC. I also did it with the weak 6/10kW Cromotor by running him on 175VDC!

3. Splitting windings: I am not sure QS motor will do this because I asked them in the past. But maybe I asked the wrong persons! So if it will be possible to manage that at QS motor they want to asked me how it will be done. Is there a good instruction how this can be handled to run two controllers on the hubmotor (e. g. via pictures)?

Thanks for your kind assist.
Andre
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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madin88   100 MW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by madin88 » Jul 10 2018 5:12am

Rovii wrote:
Jul 07 2018 10:06am
Here a more clear picture that shows that only the winding is black in a part area
looks toasted to me, but it is hard to tell if the copper debris arose from mechanical damage or from the result of overheated and melted insulation.

I wonder why you did not add ferrofluid?
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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Jul 10 2018 7:39am

I made the test now and sent a question regarding ordering to QS-Motors.
I took the same email-address like yesterday.
It only took 35 Minutes to get a feedback from them with additional questions to the order.

But until now I did not get a feedback from them regarding my email to two person I wrote last week and also a third person yesterday.
Even it is my fault with destroying the motor for a good service of a company my understanding will be that the person will be informed that their email reached the company and will be checked ...

So now I made my own experience with service/support of this company!
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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parabellum   10 MW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by parabellum » Jul 10 2018 4:52pm

Looks like some defective winding job in the burned section, some short maybe. Usually, the winding gets charred evenly all around and then just bursts in place where charred insulation fails first.
Rovii wrote:
Jul 09 2018 12:58am
1. Feedback sensor: Which sensor type will be the better one for the high current and therefore force of the magnetic fields inside the winding (Hall feedback sensor or sin/cos feedback sensor)?
honeywell ss41 if you decide the hall way.
2. To increase the voltage is not possible for me but I can order the motor as a lower voltage version! My actually motor has a Kv of 12,02 (144V version). I checked Emrax LV version motors and they are around Kv=34-40 and works perfect with my Emsiso controller. So I can order a 96V version of that 273 80H motor and run it on 118V DC. I also did it with the weak 6/10kW Cromotor by running him on 175VDC!
Looks like good plan, just make sure your controller can handle lower resistance and lower inductance of the winding.
Rovii wrote:
Jul 09 2018 12:58am
3. Splitting windings: I am not sure QS motor will do this because I asked them in the past. But maybe I asked the wrong persons! So if it will be possible to manage that at QS motor they want to asked me how it will be done. Is there a good instruction how this can be handled to run two controllers on the hubmotor (e. g. via pictures)?
If stator tooth count can be divided by 6, it may be worth splitting for 2 controllers. How many toots are there?

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Jul 11 2018 8:44am

Thanks for this information of hall sensor type.
Well as I stated Emsiso controller can handle Emrax 228 motor with Kv=34-40!
Actually I have a 23x7T Winding, three parallel groups

After my emai from today morning where I said my opinion of understanding a good service of a company, forwarded it to 4 persons of QS-Motor I got a feedback within 10 Minutes of two persons and also of a third person but not from the most important man , the sales manager. I also got now a Skype contact but actually no other information about the problem i have and how to solve it for a good deal of both sides. But tomorrow will be another day and I hope to get more information...
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Jul 12 2018 5:32am

Ok, I was now in contact with QS-Motor!
They said it was the to high current I provide to the motor.
Regarding the metal and copper pieces inside the motor housing they said nothing!
I am out of warranty (normal warranty time is 1 year and 3 month).
So the max they can do is to give me 10% of my next buy.
(At the end it means 1736$ for the water cooled version (if I make promotion for them) + 405$ shipping costs + tax + xx) and my price limit was 1000€.
I like the philosophy and service of Kelly Controls much, much more!
So here the story of using a hubmotor in a motorcycle ends for me and I will change now to chain drive!
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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parabellum   10 MW

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by parabellum » Jul 12 2018 9:00am

Rovii wrote:
Jul 12 2018 5:32am
and my price limit was 1000€.
I like the philosophy and service of Kelly Controls much, much more!
So here the story of using a hubmotor in a motorcycle ends for me and I will change now to chain drive!
You also can use this hub as mid drive, if you have enough space for.
Winding job takes several days if you go easy and costs you few $ for the magnet wire, but you can wind to higher kv then available stock right from the start.
Then cut the disc with spokes of the rotor on a lathe, few $ more if outsourced.
You easily get 2-3x more power by spinning this motor faster and torque by resulting change of gear ratio.
I guess, where I am, it all would cost far under 200US$, with new hall set included.

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by macribs » Jul 12 2018 11:25am

Parabellum I agree, plus to have a motor you did yourself in a drag bike would be awesome. Especially because you build holds high standard and is very nice and clean. And if you remove some of the back iron while at the lathe you will get less rotational mass so motor would spin up even faster. Then add in the fact you will also have reduction via sprockets and that hubmotor might just surprise you in a way you never considered possible.

Just to stick it to QS make your own logo and put it to the frame, make sure you print large banners with the same logo and post videos from next season drag races. 8)

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Jul 12 2018 9:52pm

The hubmotor is combined with a 4.5x17“ rim and I want to destroy it because I think it’s not possible for me to get the rotating mass in center after cutting.
The other issue is that this motor is a 144V version and my actually controller has only 117VDC.
I will talk today to a motor factory here at Germany to find out what is possible. I will ask them also regarding the splitting of the wounding to run two controllers on it. But I am not sure they can manage it. My plan to go faster was to reduce the voltage to 96V and I have not tested yet the field weakening option of my controller.
Yes if you have the possibility to make everything on your own you only have the material costs but I have absolutely not the experience, place and time to manage such a rewound here at my home!
But of course if the stator is rewound I will add the brand of the company who did it! But before I have to discuss this!
If it will be to expensive I will change to middrive system, what I want to do in future for sure!
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Jul 18 2018 3:10am

So, I made my decicision now to continue to conventional middrive system and continue with the rolling chassie.
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by John in CR » Jul 18 2018 10:41pm

Too bad you didn't get to explore the true potential of the motor using high voltage and the same current you used at the lower voltage. At least I still have a chance of taking back the top speed with a hubmotor. Of course I'll be doing it with only a 14kg motor instead of a double wide 273. All I need is better aero and 150V controllers.

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by Rovii » Jul 19 2018 2:40am

So pls tell me which controller can do 800Arms at 150V, 200V or 300VDC?
Maybe the Tesla converter? But he is huge and heavy!
Well there is existing Scott Drive with 750V, 650Arms but I put the Emsiso to 650Arms and the acceleration was not so god as with 800Arms parameter.
But nevertheless I started alrteady with the chassie, waiting now of the new rim which perfekty fit´s to the front rim ...
I thow out the Öhlins rear damper and made it fix
Attachments
Geburtstag Heinz 085a.jpg
- Fastest speed record 200,49 kph on flat after 740m (175V, 400A, Kelly KLS 8080I 14401, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 mile @ 157,12 kph on flat and 14.468 sec (146V, 600A, Kelly KHB 14601, 2017)
- Fastest 1/4 Mile @ 170,62 kph and 12,278 seconds ( 117V, 800A, Emsiso EmDrive 500, 2018)

14/34kW QS-Motor 273 80H 7T winding (560A and 1740 turns @ 144V) @ 169kg GSXR 1000 K2

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Re: Suzuki GSX-R e899 K2

Post by liveforphysics » Jul 19 2018 2:45am

Getting it with split windings wound for 60% of the original kV, and buying another controller to power that second set of windings would be a good deal more torque and way more topend speed.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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