"the dolphin" electric bobber

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damirsky   100 mW

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"the dolphin" electric bobber

Post by damirsky » Apr 29 2018 2:03am

hi everyone! i am a new guy here and this is my first build ever. :) i 've been working on this project for several years but the building process has started just this year. i'm still learning every day i work on this bike. happily i have a friend who helps me with the building. saying frankly his crafting skills are unvaluable fro me.

so the design of this motorcycle was unabashedly stolen by me :roll: from this motorcycle:

Image

as matt once said "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" :D so i totally agree. i think this is one of the most beutifull motorcycles i've ever seen. at the same time i wanted the design to be relatively simple to implement in crafting. i also didn't have an experience with CAD programs. i've started learning and after many nights i've got this:

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the motor is revolt rv-120 pro.

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the controller is adaptto max-e.

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the battery consisits of 22 pcs of these cells:

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made in china, bought it in russia. no idea what is the chemistry of the cells. the sellers beleives it is limn2o4, my guess it is lipo. looks like nissan leaf cells.

i've also bought wheels, brakes, throttle, front fork, swingarm, shock, saddle and some other staff over the internet. some photos below:

Image
the rims, tyres, brakes and fork were bought from taobao, china.

the swingarm is from old yamaha yrz125.
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design of the frame:

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frame made of 5mm sheet aluminium alloy. i think now it is too much but at the beginning i wanted my frame to be quite beefy. it is cutted from sheet by waterjet.

changed swingarm:

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the battery set:

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plan to make covers from fyberglass (at the picture there are right side covers only):

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the chassis:

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left-side look, no covers:

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to be continued...

p.s. hope for your support, guys, because i need to do a lot of things.

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macribs   1 GW

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Re: "the dolphin" electric bobber

Post by macribs » Apr 29 2018 11:22am

Eh welcome back? :)

Nice. I get the idea of this. Making something based on a motorcycle that did an impression on you. That is cool. However my personal #1 is always function gets the high seat. Design is funny that way. Especially if doing your own take on what other done before. On the one hand you like to keep the look, on the other hand, too much focus on look alone might end up being, well not a home run.

The bobber as a concept is cool, and well suited for electrification. But recreating the cylinders/cylinder tops cooling fins? Ok, I guess if you are going to run a liquid cooled motor or controller that could work as a radiator replacement, not as efficient as a radiator but it could still work. As long as you don't run liquid cooling, I think you are sinking countless hours on recreating something that might not be that cool after all when bike is all done and ready. All that time and machining into something that does nothing, has no function,adds nothing to performance, or in any way really. I would frankly just drop the idea of replicating the engine fins, after all you do an electric bobber. Don't be shamed by that. Be proud! :) Embrace the e-bobber idea. Your design don't need a fake ICE engine, your design is already yours and look great.

Any build likely will eat up man hours like you wouldn't believe. So I guess what I am saying is maybe simplify where simplify makes sense and put those man hours into the rest of the bike keeping overall build moving forward that much faster. Anyway it's your build, you do what makes sense to you. This was just one old mans rambling.

Have you already bought motor and controller? (Those Revolts......hm search the forum for threads about overall quality+performance) If not you could look into other mid drive options. One cool thing that just became an option is to buy motor and controller from Sur Ron, look at the links. That dual motor + dual controller combo seems it should be perfect for your build. Judging by the final price tag on their Sur Ron bikes (3000 $ for complete turn key bike ready to ride) I suspect you might get real good price too. That dual motor should put out real world peak power at 28 kw, continuous @ 16 kw. Double what the dreamers @Revolt claims for the 120 pro. If the Sur Ron dual motor is too much power for you, they got a single motor+reduction @ 14kw peak, 8 kw continuous.

The Revolt over promise and under deliver. One guy is even rebuilding and re wounding the entire motor to get a well working one, to commit to such a time consuming tasks speaks volume of the lack of quality from Revolt. Revolt = Not great motors for e-bikes.

Sur Ron is all the tits these days, lots of forum members have bought their bike, and they all seemed very pleased. So much so that I don't think I've seen so much love since the Stealth Bomber and Stealth Fighter. I have not yet bought one, but it seems that Sur Ron is making a lot of good choices so maybe their motors and controllers turns out to be money well spent. From the looks of the pics in the article it seems the motors got a one step reduction build in.

Check out the Sur Ron motors and controllers. https://evnerds.com/electric-vehicles/e ... companies/

damirsky   100 mW

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Joined: Dec 03 2014 11:28pm

Re: "the dolphin" electric bobber

Post by damirsky » Apr 29 2018 12:12pm

macribs wrote:
Apr 29 2018 11:22am
Eh welcome back? :)

Nice. I get the idea of this. Making something based on a motorcycle that did an impression on you. That is cool. However my personal #1 is always function gets the high seat. Design is funny that way. Especially if doing your own take on what other done before. On the one hand you like to keep the look, on the other hand, too much focus on look alone might end up being, well not a home run.

The bobber as a concept is cool, and well suited for electrification. But recreating the cylinders/cylinder tops cooling fins? Ok, I guess if you are going to run a liquid cooled motor or controller that could work as a radiator replacement, not as efficient as a radiator but it could still work. As long as you don't run liquid cooling, I think you are sinking countless hours on recreating something that might not be that cool after all when bike is all done and ready. All that time and machining into something that does nothing, has no function,adds nothing to performance, or in any way really. I would frankly just drop the idea of replicating the engine fins, after all you do an electric bobber. Don't be shamed by that. Be proud! :) Embrace the e-bobber idea. Your design don't need a fake ICE engine, your design is already yours and look great.

Any build likely will eat up man hours like you wouldn't believe. So I guess what I am saying is maybe simplify where simplify makes sense and put those man hours into the rest of the bike keeping overall build moving forward that much faster. Anyway it's your build, you do what makes sense to you. This was just one old mans rambling.

Have you already bought motor and controller? (Those Revolts......hm search the forum for threads about overall quality+performance) If not you could look into other mid drive options. One cool thing that just became an option is to buy motor and controller from Sur Ron, look at the links. That dual motor + dual controller combo seems it should be perfect for your build. Judging by the final price tag on their Sur Ron bikes (3000 $ for complete turn key bike ready to ride) I suspect you might get real good price too. That dual motor should put out real world peak power at 28 kw, continuous @ 16 kw. Double what the dreamers @Revolt claims for the 120 pro. If the Sur Ron dual motor is too much power for you, they got a single motor+reduction @ 14kw peak, 8 kw continuous.

The Revolt over promise and under deliver. One guy is even rebuilding and re wounding the entire motor to get a well working one, to commit to such a time consuming tasks speaks volume of the lack of quality from Revolt. Revolt = Not great motors for e-bikes.

Sur Ron is all the tits these days, lots of forum members have bought their bike, and they all seemed very pleased. So much so that I don't think I've seen so much love since the Stealth Bomber and Stealth Fighter. I have not yet bought one, but it seems that Sur Ron is making a lot of good choices so maybe their motors and controllers turns out to be money well spent. From the looks of the pics in the article it seems the motors got a one step reduction build in.

Check out the Sur Ron motors and controllers. https://evnerds.com/electric-vehicles/e ... companies/
thank you very much for your reply.
as i mentioned this is my first build. i was probably too presumptuous when i started that complicate project but i've passed a lot at this moment. to much to stop it. :) yes that is my problem: i paid may too much attention for imitation. i have one friend who is very experienced guy in motorcycle building and he said me that my desing is a piece of shit. :) he said me i better choose some tube-based frames like ducati makes. i was buying different parts and materials for this build during few years. at the beginning i was thinking i could brase the aluminium frame by hts-2000 brasing pods. i thought it is a simple way to build and aluminium frame by cutting pieces by waterjet (outsourse), bend some stripes and then brase it all together. :D i had some experiments with those brasing pods and found that the strenth of the brased connection is pretty weak. i couldn't brake it by hands but one strike by hummer and it flys away.. so i decided to weld it.
the fins are not just for the look, it will be new case for max-e controller. yes i've already bought the motor and the controller. and yes, i've heard about revolt motors overheating problem. i was thinking a lot about this but finally decided to go through. :) afaik those motors come with delta termination by default. i think i could change it for wye and see what'd happen. one of the reasons why i've chosen aluminium frame is a good thermal conductivity of aluminium alloys. the frame will take some heat from the motor. i also have some experience with building of powerful watercooled pc systems so building of a watercooling sysytem is not a huge deal for me. and finally i can change the motor for another one - denzel 7500. i think they use it in sur-ron bikes you mentioned.

damirsky   100 mW

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Re: "the dolphin" electric bobber

Post by damirsky » Apr 29 2018 12:48pm

the frame consists of two sides and bended 50 mm tripes welded together. for stripes bending i've fabricated this tool:
Image

bending of small radiuses was tough:

Image

Image

Image

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the frame welded and the swingarm chopped and welded again:

Image

Image

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macribs   1 GW

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Re: "the dolphin" electric bobber

Post by macribs » Apr 29 2018 2:00pm

Look at that. Start to look like an e-bobber already. Man this thing will be nice when done. Looking forward to see the complete bike.
I hope you will get the Revolt working, maybe check to see if motor needs to be balanced and you might not need to change termination, maybe swapping to higher quality halls will do. Or make sure the placement of the halls are 100% spot on as it seems to slightly off on many Revolts. Timing issues can be a bitch. I can't remember who did it, maybe the swede with the great red DIY long john cargo bike? But at least some had luck swapping halls for optical encoder on the Revolt.

Really like your design, great work so far. Will be watching the rest of the build.

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Willow   10 kW

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Re: "the dolphin" electric bobber

Post by Willow » Apr 29 2018 7:02pm

Love your project so far. Good to see you have spent the time in design before rushing in and making a hash of it.

The Adaptto is designed to work with Hub motors... not mid-drives (unless it's a mid-hub). The Adaptto system is an excellent system however. Before you blow it up in testing, I'd offer to buy it from you so you can get a controller more suited to your needs. Please PM me if you will sell it. Do you have the BMS and charge coil as well??

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macribs   1 GW

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Re: "the dolphin" electric bobber

Post by macribs » Apr 30 2018 6:35am

I think Adaptto stated their controllers works up to 60 000 e-rpm and if my memory is correct the Revolt is within 60 000 e-rpm. However there was some talk about issues with motor speed faster then 3 000 rpm in the very long adaptto thread.

damirsky   100 mW

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Re: "the dolphin" electric bobber

Post by damirsky » Apr 30 2018 6:48am

my plan was to use it with square-wave mode not sinusoidal. i know one russian guy who's built his own enduro bike using revolt rv100-pro and adaptto mini-e. he rides his bike for few years. he mentioned that revolt+adaptto combination is not the best. he noted that in square-wave mode adaptto works better with his revolt motor. guy from denzel also wrote at russian forum that their motors work better with square-wave controllers than foc. i'm gonna think on this..

damirsky   100 mW

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Re: "the dolphin" electric bobber

Post by damirsky » May 26 2018 6:08am

hi everyone.

the rear axle:

Image

first fitting:

Image

Image

Image

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macribs   1 GW

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Re: "the dolphin" electric bobber

Post by macribs » May 26 2018 1:45pm

Your latest pics don't show. Pls correct so we can look at your progress.

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   100 kW

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Re: "the dolphin" electric bobber

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » May 26 2018 2:43pm

I can see the pics fine (android).. nice looking build!
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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macribs   1 GW

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Re: "the dolphin" electric bobber

Post by macribs » May 26 2018 4:44pm

I checked with 3 browsers, opera, chrome and firefox in windows. No pics.
Then I checked via android on phone. Still no pics. Opera and FF on android 8.1. Them pics you can see, are you sure they are in this post here? viewtopic.php?f=12&t=93996&p=1383035#p1382931 ? I can see the earlier pics in this thread, just the last post made today I cant see the pics.

Did you post the pics on a third party image host website? Sometimes they can do geo blocking, or limit views if you are not paid member. Maybe you can upload them pics to this forum using the Attachements tab under the field where you write your post. Then click "add files".

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   100 kW

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Re: "the dolphin" electric bobber

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » May 26 2018 5:19pm

macribs wrote:
May 26 2018 4:44pm
I checked with 3 browsers, opera, chrome and firefox in windows. No pics.
Then I checked via android on phone. Still no pics. Opera and FF on android 8.1. Them pics you can see, are you sure they are in this post here? viewtopic.php?f=12&t=93996&p=1383035#p1382931 ? I can see the earlier pics in this thread, just the last post made today I cant see the pics.

Did you post the pics on a third party image host website? Sometimes they can do geo blocking, or limit views if you are not paid member. Maybe you can upload them pics to this forum using the Attachements tab under the field where you write your post. Then click "add files".
I can see all the pics in this thread.. if you post a reply to the thread and quote the OP then you can see the image source.. the images are posted here : googleusercontent.com ..
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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macribs   1 GW

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Re: "the dolphin" electric bobber

Post by macribs » May 26 2018 8:16pm

Ok, so it is Google that evil snake that is causing this. Seems there are sat some restrictions to whom can view those pics then.
At least when I copied the link from the quoted post directly into browser I get asked to log into google.

Oh well, guess I won't be watching those pics as I don't give in to manipulators like google, face, and other evil companies.

I remember 15-20 years ago Google has a slogan saying Don't be evil. A lot has happened since then.


Edited:
Ahh geo blocking it must be. EU got their new "internet privacy law" The General Data Protection Regulation active yesterday. I remember reading that many online services could be unavailable for EU citizens the next few days while companies try to comply to the new law. I guess that is why I can't see the pics.

Tomorrow I will boot up a server and run VPN to see if that will work. 3 am here and the moon is drunk and I am shining so it ain't happening right now for sure. Cheers.
Last edited by macribs on May 27 2018 8:28am, edited 2 times in total.

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   100 kW

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Re: "the dolphin" electric bobber

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » May 26 2018 8:34pm

hopefully the OP will attach the images instead as per your recommendation so these issues can be avoided and the images will be viewable for all readers now and in the future..
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: "the dolphin" electric bobber

Post by Chalo » May 26 2018 9:06pm

macribs wrote:
May 26 2018 8:16pm
I remember 15-20 years ago Google has a slogan saying Don't be evil. A lot has happened since then.
A lot has happened since then.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

damirsky   100 mW

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Re: "the dolphin" electric bobber

Post by damirsky » May 27 2018 4:49am

macribs wrote:
May 26 2018 1:45pm
Your latest pics don't show. Pls correct so we can look at your progress.
i am sorry. i don't know why google photo shows you first photos but doesn't show latest. may be you're right - there are some restrictions..

can you see these pictures?

Image

Image

Image

Image

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macribs   1 GW

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Re: "the dolphin" electric bobber

Post by macribs » May 27 2018 8:25am

Yeah now they show. Thank you.

Oh man that thing is sweet. Really great work both on the design and the craftsmanship. Now it is easier to see the lines, and imagine what it will look like completed. Can't wait to see the end product. Keep up the momentum and bring this baby home.

damirsky   100 mW

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Re: "the dolphin" electric bobber

Post by damirsky » Jun 26 2018 5:03am

the battery design:

Image

got the front panel from laser cut:

Image

finaly i discovered that i made a mistake with measuring of the cells so i need to re-fabricate it with proper size.

for the top and bottom panels i used 2 mm aluminium sheet. the details have been cut by waterjet many days ago and bended yesterday:

Image

Image

final result:

Image

also got a rear sprocket from laser cut:

Image

JimmyJazz   10 µW

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Re: "the dolphin" electric bobber

Post by JimmyJazz » Jul 22 2018 1:25pm

Wow! You went from designing to fabricating pretty quickly after dreaming about it for years. Congratulations. I've been lurking here for over 5 years and still have only got as far as pencil drawings and mocking up a frame with wood doweling (I have 3 small children consuming all of my time). I love your design, including the controller heat sink. It's a nice postmodern homage to an ICE. I also plan on brazing my frame, though I mean to do tube & lug slipjoints, where there will be a lot of surface area and very tight tolerances (I'm a machinist), so I expect the brazing to be stronger than welds. I wouldn't worry too much about the Revolt situation. Design & fabrication are an iterative process, so I'm sure you'll modify your bike and swap out components that fall short at a later date. Failure is the most important part of learning and progressing. I already have three iterations planned for my bike, so I can concentrate on one difficult subsystem at a time before moving on to the next. I also could not see the photos in the one post (Canada/Windows/Opera), but then could see them in the subsequent posts. Thanks for reposting those. I hope you're having fun building it, and I look forward to following your progress.

damirsky   100 mW

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Re: "the dolphin" electric bobber

Post by damirsky » Aug 10 2018 2:04pm

JimmyJazz wrote:
Jul 22 2018 1:25pm
Wow! You went from designing to fabricating pretty quickly after dreaming about it for years. Congratulations. I've been lurking here for over 5 years and still have only got as far as pencil drawings and mocking up a frame with wood doweling (I have 3 small children consuming all of my time). I love your design, including the controller heat sink. It's a nice postmodern homage to an ICE. I also plan on brazing my frame, though I mean to do tube & lug slipjoints, where there will be a lot of surface area and very tight tolerances (I'm a machinist), so I expect the brazing to be stronger than welds. I wouldn't worry too much about the Revolt situation. Design & fabrication are an iterative process, so I'm sure you'll modify your bike and swap out components that fall short at a later date. Failure is the most important part of learning and progressing. I already have three iterations planned for my bike, so I can concentrate on one difficult subsystem at a time before moving on to the next. I also could not see the photos in the one post (Canada/Windows/Opera), but then could see them in the subsequent posts. Thanks for reposting those. I hope you're having fun building it, and I look forward to following your progress.
thank you for your kind words :) i really appreciate.
i also have three children (but my elder son is already 20 :D ) and i know what it's like to be a father :P i also beleive that creating of something by your hands is a very good example of good attitude for the kids. :D so common, stop just dreaming and start crafting! :P

meanwhile i got some matrix for future covers from cnc cut and tried it with scotch tape:
Image

Image

Image

Image

isn't she sexy? :roll:

JimmyJazz   10 µW

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Re: "the dolphin" electric bobber

Post by JimmyJazz » Aug 11 2018 4:30pm

Cool!

damirsky   100 mW

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Re: "the dolphin" electric bobber

Post by damirsky » Aug 20 2018 11:42am

hi everyone.

parts for battery almost ready:
Image

we have made some saddle part:

Image
Image
Image

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macribs   1 GW

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Re: "the dolphin" electric bobber

Post by macribs » Aug 20 2018 2:18pm

Sweet welding job, and the leather work as well. Impressive to get so consistent welds trough the whole bike, considering it is aluminum. Really craftsmanship. This will be one heck of a bobber.

damirsky   100 mW

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Re: "the dolphin" electric bobber

Post by damirsky » Aug 20 2018 10:09pm

macribs wrote:
Aug 20 2018 2:18pm
Sweet welding job, and the leather work as well. Impressive to get so consistent welds trough the whole bike, considering it is aluminum. Really craftsmanship. This will be one heck of a bobber.
thank you very much for your support!
as i mentioned above i've bought the saddle from germany on ebay and it is really nice looking saddle. :D
some parts like frame and swingarm are not complete and will be grinded and polished soon.

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