How do you feel about 'other toxic discussions' on this forum?

This section will contain posting guidelines for the forum along with any other information that is relevant to this forum.

How do you feel about it?

Poll ended at Dec 24 2020 7:14pm

It's my favorite section!
7
18%
It's fun sometimes but i'm mostly here for the eBike action.
13
33%
It doesn't matter to me.
4
10%
I tolerate it.
6
15%
I hate it - kill it with fire!
9
23%
 
Total votes: 39

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neptronix   100 GW

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How do you feel about 'other toxic discussions' on this forum?

Post by neptronix » Nov 24 2020 7:14pm

I'd like to collect your feedback on how you feel about OTD. Please vote in the poll and leave any comments you may have.

Please leave debates about certain personalities in OTD out of the discussion, i'll delete those because this is an information collecting post, not a flame war. :wink:
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

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wineboyrider   100 MW

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Re: How do you feel about 'other toxic discussions' on this forum?

Post by wineboyrider » Nov 24 2020 9:57pm

Nep. It's one of the only reasons I am still here.. lol
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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: How do you feel about 'other toxic discussions' on this forum?

Post by Chalo » Nov 24 2020 10:52pm

On a slow day, that's definitely where most of the action is. I think it helps keep the on-topic parts of the forum somewhat more on-topic than they might be otherwise.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: How do you feel about 'other toxic discussions' on this forum?

Post by Dauntless » Nov 24 2020 11:52pm

Yeah, I'm probably the only person you'll hear any indignation from, the rest are quite at home with the mudslinging. Of all things, the guy posts the statement from Popper on complete tolerance so often leading to NO tolerance. I always see a few things need to be capped no matter how free with it you wish to be. Letting it go 100% (And you HAVEN'T. Rumme, Bluto, etc.) would never work, cleaning up a little might be good.

If there was any way to put an end to the multiple identities. My own experience is the more names a person has, the worse their behavior in any they don't consider their real self. (I mean I realize there are those who love being hateful in their OWN name, but most people don't.) I realize those clever enough can post with an IP in another state and it's probably impossible to track. Don't know the real answer for it. But I really dislike the anonymous board entity where you can just see someone dancing around over their "Cuteness" with the deliberate antagonizing people for no other reason than they don't care if their particular name gets banned anyway. (I'm sure you never noticed.)

Sometimes I wonder why that 'Wind Solar Nuclear' thread hasn't found its' way over there. But I wonder at a few whose behavior could be WORSE if it WAS there. Maybe knowing you might bounce it there holds them back at least a little.
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Re: How do you feel about 'other toxic discussions' on this forum?

Post by pickworthi » Nov 25 2020 3:33am

It is quite amusing watching white USA males telling other people what to do in absolute terms, and then having an aneurysm when they *think* someone might tell them what to do.

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Re: How do you feel about 'other toxic discussions' on this forum?

Post by ZeroEm » Nov 25 2020 7:47am

I think it helps keeping topics more on topic, if not you could not say "take it over to toxic".
Like that 'Wind Solar Nuclear' thread, some good info. Maybe better than a Novel?
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nicobie   1 GW

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Re: How do you feel about 'other toxic discussions' on this forum?

Post by nicobie » Nov 25 2020 4:09pm

Chalo wrote:
Nov 24 2020 10:52pm
On a slow day, that's definitely where most of the action is. I think it helps keep the on-topic parts of the forum somewhat more on-topic than they might be otherwise.
ZeroEm wrote:
Nov 25 2020 7:47am
I think it helps keeping topics more on topic, if not you could not say "take it over to toxic".
Like that 'Wind Solar Nuclear' thread, some good info. Maybe better than a Novel?
wineboyrider wrote:
Nov 24 2020 9:57pm
Nep. It's one of the only reasons I am still here.. lol
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Re: How do you feel about 'other toxic discussions' on this forum?

Post by MJSfoto1956 » Nov 25 2020 4:23pm

I like that OTD no longer shows up under "New Posts" -- a big improvement IMHO in usability and separating the wheat from the chaff.
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Re: How do you feel about 'other toxic discussions' on this forum?

Post by nicobie » Nov 25 2020 4:29pm

Just so google bots and the like are kept away, I don't think it's hurting the owners reputation any and it's a good way for some to let off steam. :oops:

One thing that would be useful for the Mods that I wish was available when I was a mod on a couple of contentious boards would be a tool that a mod (or maybe best, an administrator) could use to force a member to ignore another member. It would be used on both of the members at the same time. For example, I would not see Dauntless' posts and he would not see mine. This MIGHT work to slow down the insults and other crap. I think it would be worth a try if at all possible. However, some might think it overbearing.
Take it easy... but take it. (Woody Guthrie)

my eTownie build thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=23701
Magazine article https://www.electricbike.com/nicks-etownie/

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: How do you feel about 'other toxic discussions' on this forum?

Post by neptronix » Nov 25 2020 7:21pm

MJSfoto1956 wrote:
Nov 25 2020 4:23pm
I like that OTD no longer shows up under "New Posts" -- a big improvement IMHO in usability and separating the wheat from the chaff.
Yeah i recently did that, given that this is the last phpBB update we will have. I literally just hacked that feature into the code.
OTD will show up in 'your posts' or in searches etc, but it's sort of.. let's say, quarantined off from the average joe user.

During winter, OTD can be the most active place on this forum and i don't want new users getting the wrong idea about what this place is for.
nicobie wrote:
Nov 25 2020 4:29pm
Just so google bots and the like are kept away, I don't think it's hurting the owners reputation any and it's a good way for some to let off steam. :oops:
We've had OTD on 'invisible to web crawlers' for quite a while, thankfully.
nicobie wrote:
Nov 25 2020 4:29pm
One thing that would be useful for the Mods that I wish was available when I was a mod on a couple of contentious boards would be a tool that a mod (or maybe best, an administrator) could use to force a member to ignore another member. It would be used on both of the members at the same time. For example, I would not see Dauntless' posts and he would not see mine. This MIGHT work to slow down the insults and other crap. I think it would be worth a try if at all possible. However, some might think it overbearing.
This hasn't been really possible on phpBB but.. i am going to put it on the 'wants' list, if our new system makes it possible to do.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

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nicobie   1 GW

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Re: How do you feel about 'other toxic discussions' on this forum?

Post by nicobie » Nov 25 2020 10:46pm

Thank you. Sounds interesting, cant wait.

Sounds kind of like www.badgerandblade.com

This is the most well run forum I've run across in a while. It's a bit overmoderated and way too strict on their marketplace, but as it's pretty busy it might be necessary.

They do their photos a bit different. They have a gallery.
Take it easy... but take it. (Woody Guthrie)

my eTownie build thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=23701
Magazine article https://www.electricbike.com/nicks-etownie/

markz   100 GW

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Re: How do you feel about 'other toxic discussions' on this forum?

Post by markz » Nov 26 2020 12:24am

Winter and Covid makes for lots of time for the spammers to get in, but its really not that bad. I just noticed theres a little more spammers around, doing their advertising and posting in whatever language.

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Re: How do you feel about 'other toxic discussions' on this forum?

Post by Dauntless » Nov 27 2020 1:57am

What you should have is automatically no access to OTD if you have ANY use of ignore. Obviously you don't belong in their if you're too delicate. BANG! Hit the ignore button once and you ignore ALL of OTD, as adult society and the U.S. Constitution intended.
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Re: How do you feel about 'other toxic discussions' on this forum?

Post by gogo » Nov 27 2020 12:54pm

Its a useful place for discretionary material, and more useful than fun.
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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: How do you feel about 'other toxic discussions' on this forum?

Post by neptronix » Nov 27 2020 1:51pm

nicobie wrote:
Nov 25 2020 10:46pm
Sounds kind of like www.badgerandblade.com

This is the most well run forum I've run across in a while. It's a bit overmoderated and way too strict on their marketplace, but as it's pretty busy it might be necessary.

They do their photos a bit different. They have a gallery.
Interesting forum setup. They have a nice array of related topics. Perhaps that's something to emulate in ES 2.0.

I was immediately appalled by the covid-19 posting warning. I wonder if that's them being overprotective, or it's a mitigation against a real problem ( IE their users trend -20 IQ points versus here ).

I suppose we are lucky here. We only have a few village idiots, and a lot of critical thinkers. This is part of why looser moderation works well here.

When i ran endless sphere facebook, the IQ and emotional maturity level was much much lower than here. We had to ban discussion of politics also also put a hard segregation between commercial and DIY/individual activity. As the group grew, it became harder to moderate due to FB's format. I didn't like that there was a disconnect between how ES FB had to be moderated vs here.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: How do you feel about 'other toxic discussions' on this forum?

Post by neptronix » Nov 27 2020 2:50pm

It seems that most people are OK with / see value in OTD thus far. I'll continue to run this poll because i want more less frequent posters to chime in with their opinions.

And now for my take.

My issue with OTD is that there's a few personalities who make discussing things like politics in any rational way impossible because they are constantly stirring the pot and provoking other people. It is a majority of what they do on this forum.

This is called trolling on any other place on the internet. And seen as distasteful and unwanted on everwhere except perhaps 4chan.

I think OTD sucks for this reason.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

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nicobie   1 GW

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Re: How do you feel about 'other toxic discussions' on this forum?

Post by nicobie » Nov 27 2020 6:08pm

neptronix wrote:
Nov 27 2020 2:50pm

I think OTD sucks for this reason.
:D :D :D

Seeing as how shit always runs downhill, Maybe we should rename it the Basement. :mrgreen:

P.S. I'm really trying to limit my input down there. I am only replying to posters I kind of respect. :idea: I guess you'd call it self-moderation. 🙈🙉🙊 Maybe I haven't been doing too good, but damn-it, I'm trying.
Take it easy... but take it. (Woody Guthrie)

my eTownie build thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=23701
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Re: How do you feel about 'other toxic discussions' on this forum?

Post by LeftieBiker » Nov 27 2020 7:28pm

It seems that you are being flooded with spam - some of it in cyrillic, I think. I have no desire to moderate at another forum, but if you want help deleting spam and spammers, PM me, or tell me here. That was how I started at the Leaf forum. I'm up literally all night, so I was able to at least get the spam under control until we went to early post moderation (which I still think you should adopt here).
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Re: How do you feel about 'other toxic discussions' on this forum?

Post by neptronix » Nov 27 2020 8:37pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Nov 27 2020 7:28pm
It seems that you are being flooded with spam - some of it in cyrillic, I think. I have no desire to moderate at another forum, but if you want help deleting spam and spammers, PM me, or tell me here. That was how I started at the Leaf forum. I'm up literally all night, so I was able to at least get the spam under control until we went to early post moderation (which I still think you should adopt here).
Thank you for your offer, i'll keep in mind for the future. I sent some info to the mod team that highlights some modifications they can make for the time being. We've got it for now.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

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Re: How do you feel about 'other toxic discussions' on this forum?

Post by LeftieBiker » Nov 28 2020 12:57am

No problem. Just remember that most spammers can now spoof IP addresses, so the most effective approach is to ban them by user ID, by email, and by IP. It's as much a PITA as it sounds.
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2018 Magnum Metro with noisy motor
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Re: How do you feel about 'other toxic discussions' on this forum?

Post by jonescg » Nov 28 2020 1:07am

ZeroEm wrote:
Nov 25 2020 7:47am
I think it helps keeping topics more on topic, if not you could not say "take it over to toxic".
Like that 'Wind Solar Nuclear' thread, some good info. Maybe better than a Novel?
That thread has a life of its own. An interesting exercise in the subtle art of persuasion, or not, as the case may be...

I do like the idea that politics, religion, sex and drugs are in a separate room though. I tried it once or twice, but didn't inhale :oops:

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Re: How do you feel about 'other toxic discussions' on this forum?

Post by neptronix » Dec 08 2020 6:22pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Nov 28 2020 12:57am
No problem. Just remember that most spammers can now spoof IP addresses, so the most effective approach is to ban them by user ID, by email, and by IP. It's as much a PITA as it sounds.
AFAIK you can spoof an IP address but you can't get the responses to your spoofed IP address back to your real one so easily.
Spoofing is now mostly used in DDOS attacks.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

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LeftieBiker   100 kW

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Re: How do you feel about 'other toxic discussions' on this forum?

Post by LeftieBiker » Dec 08 2020 8:32pm

neptronix wrote:
Dec 08 2020 6:22pm
LeftieBiker wrote:
Nov 28 2020 12:57am
No problem. Just remember that most spammers can now spoof IP addresses, so the most effective approach is to ban them by user ID, by email, and by IP. It's as much a PITA as it sounds.
AFAIK you can spoof an IP address but you can't get the responses to your spoofed IP address back to your real one so easily.
Spoofing is now mostly used in DDOS attacks.
They don't need responses to go to a spoofed IP. They spoof the IP to post, and post a link to another site entirely in that post.
2018 Nissan Leaf SL with Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 Maxi Scooter W/ 18 Leaf modules
2018 Magnum Metro with noisy motor
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2019 3 wheel 36 volt scooter

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Re: How do you feel about 'other toxic discussions' on this forum?

Post by neptronix » Dec 08 2020 8:46pm

True, but our system bans based on the login IP, not the post IP. With logins, you need to receive a cookie.. so there must be a packet sent back to a correct address.

Same with signups.. usually the same IP address doing the signups is doing the logging in. You want to see a packet back during login too.

There's lots of low hanging fruit ways to defeat these spammers. But we are not committed to PhpBB anymore so it is not worth the time to write code to mitigate that since the problem isn't horrendously bad. On our next platform, spam control will be a priority. And we have at least one other guy here who writes PHP code who can perhaps pull the heavy lifting there.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

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Re: How do you feel about 'other toxic discussions' on this forum?

Post by DanGT86 » Dec 10 2020 5:30pm

I am in the "fun sometimes but mostly here for the bike stuff" camp. Unfortunately because I posted in one of the busiest OTD threads its now always at the top of my Quick Links-my posts- link. Is there a way to remove stuff from that list? I like being able to check on that thread but hate the fact that any time I click my posts I always have that monster thread staring me in the face at the top of my list. When I want to step away from the news and read about bikes its always there dragging me back in.

I also totally agree that having a separate place for OTD threads really helps. I have had heated discussion with members on that thread and posted totally productively with them on the bike side of things moments later. I love the off limits nature of keeping them separated. It really helps the bike content stay clean.

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