ES Rules - Have your say !

nitecheck · Post by **nitecheck** » Apr 22 2009 8:41am

Zoot Katz wrote: Stone cold church talk that's subtly insulting is the best flame, IMO.

Katz...that's just constructive criticsim ...or just lively conversation inviting another to have a meeting of the minds??

Reid Welch · Post by **Reid Welch** » Apr 29 2009 1:03pm

John in CR wrote:My only beef is that over half of the pics aren't viewable from here in Costa Rica.

My guess is that it's a national policy of Costa Pricka.

I post lots of images and videos too. I wish all could see them.
If they can't: I'm not going to omit illustrations just because some members are stuck on dial up, or in draconian countries.

-----
Helpful fun: the new dial telephone system is coming to our towns soon!
Everybody should be ready!

It is truly a triumph! No more grumpy, central station, Miss Schlumph!

[youtube]f=7&t=9853[/youtube]

Drunkskunk · Post by **Drunkskunk** » Apr 30 2009 2:51pm

Reid Welch wrote:
John in CR wrote:My only beef is that over half of the pics aren't viewable from here in Costa Rica.
My guess is that it's a national policy of Costa Pricka.

I post lots of images and videos too. I wish all could see them.
If they can't: I'm not going to omit illustrations just because some members are stuck on dial up, or in draconian countries.

I wouldn't omit a pic either, But on the other hand, I chat often with a friend in Portugal, and She can't see some of the links I post. I've gotten used to looking for host sites that work internationaly, so I wouldn't be opposed to using a service that works for all to see.

JohninCR, which hosts can't you see?

Post by **Ypedal** » May 20 2009 6:42am

Alright.. this is one that keeps comming up over and over again and I'd like to suggest a new rule here..

- No talking/starting threads about banned members !

For one, theyse individuals are no longer here to defend themselves, and you will have to trust that anyone banned has been given a more than fair chance at playing nice..

Moderating is way more complicated than i ever anticipated when i got into this lol..

TylerDurden · Post by **TylerDurden** » May 20 2009 7:00am

Ypedal wrote: I'd like to suggest a new rule here.. - No talking/starting threads about banned members !

That's getting into tricky territory... banned members will always be referred-to at some point. I suggest:

Lock the threads started by any banned member, so nooBs don't expect a reply from a banned OP.
Confine any threads primarily concerned with banned members to a dedicated thread, or to the cesspool.

There is value to discussing banned members... perhaps suffice to say the few members that have been banned made nuisances of themselves.

Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh · Post by **Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh** » May 20 2009 9:27am

might i point out the obvious.

wo ist der lizt?

i've checked the swollen members section.
other than confirming Link's observation that it's a sausage fest,
nothing there to indicate who is banned or whatever their current status is.
perhaps a special rank icon to show who's been naughty, like a scarlet letter 'B'.
or is it to be found someplace else?

reason is i'd like to know, is Harmon banned or back again or what?
what happens to this thread re: LifeBatt & others like it in the future?
do we tip-toe around the central character involved or not start the thread in the first place?

ain't rulez phunn?

will_newton · Post by **will_newton** » May 20 2009 3:57pm

I've only been on here a few weeks and I am amazed at how unregulated things are, compared to other much larger sites that have very heavy handed moderators/rules. It's annoying at times to have to scoop through the crap to get real info, but it's refreshing too. Honestly, I enjoy watching someone getting a new asshole ripped into them when it's deserved. I learned a lot, fast, about what to look out for in info, quality, and service because someone got publicly hung out to dry. Thanks God folks are still talking about Safe, the same way folks still talk about Hitler, it's a cautionary tale.

I think the thing to remember is that this forum doesn't belong to anyone that signs up to be a member-that's BS New Age hippy dippy stuff. It's owned by a benevolent dictator. A best there should just be a warning sign (FAQ) about what to expect and what's expected. If folks can't get their act together and a scuffle ensues, things will get sorted out, if the ahem.."debate" continues then swift judgement comes down from above.

This place is kinda Wild West territory. I've seen posts with boobies! and I'm not going to get warnings for typing the word "asshole". I love this place!

The world is changing and one day this place is going to be huge and filled with sponsored ads and will become one of those monster forums. Ya'll better better enjoy it while it lasts!

Post by **swbluto** » May 20 2009 10:31pm

TylerDurden wrote:
Ypedal wrote: I'd like to suggest a new rule here.. - No talking/starting threads about banned members !
Confine any threads primarily concerned with banned members to a dedicated thread

Brilliant! I, for one, definitely support the rational questioning of judgment and that includes any authority/autorities behind banning a given member. If "banned member" litter is perhaps a bit too spread out, then perhaps a "banned member" thread can be dedicated? That'd keep it nice and contained without overtly oppressing speech. If some actions were perhaps questionable according to someone's perception, then it seems only right that it ought to be questioned.

I'd suggest somewhere in the "general discussion" forum and possibly be made a sticky or in the cess-pool if it'd be too contentious of a topic.

By the ways, "Cess pool" is such a brilliant idea of this forum. I don't think I've ever seen that at another forum and it's just... brilliant.

EMF · Post by **EMF** » May 20 2009 10:44pm

Yeah! You can never get enough Harmon, Goldbrick etc bashing!!! Or mulling over whether or not Safe should or should not have been banned. It really makes the forum stronger!

There is nothing more interesting than badmouthing those that cannot respond. /S

Brilliant indeed!

On the other hand, you could move on with your lives and be glad you don't have to moderate.

Post by **swbluto** » May 21 2009 2:48am

EMF wrote:Yeah! You can never get enough Harmon, Goldbrick etc bashing!!! Or mulling over whether or not Safe should or should not have been banned. It really makes the forum stronger!

There is nothing more interesting than badmouthing those that cannot respond. /S Brilliant indeed!

On the other hand, you could move on with your lives and be glad you don't have to moderate.

It is called freedom of speech, and one that might actually work towards a greater benefit. "Moving on with your life" is a fairly vague notion, and I don't really take that notion seriously from someone who dwells in the cess-pool. At the best, it could reverse a possibly unfair process(unlikely, but possible), and at worst, it would provide entertainment with mutual revelry. What's wrong with that? If they aren't here, it's not likely they bother keeping abreast on how other people view them on a forum they've been banned from. I think they would've taken a hint by the time they were banned...

And, by the way, that would make the forum stronger believe it or not. That wouldn't be my intent, but now that you bring it up - "Nothing brings a people closer together than a common enemy" (Some paraphrased quote from someone who sounded wise on the History channel).

EMF · Post by **EMF** » May 21 2009 7:39am

It's not freedom of speech if you are the subject being discussed and you cannot respond either due to the thread being locked or you being banned this is just wrong.

The best way to handle such situations is via PM.

EMF · Post by **EMF** » May 21 2009 7:46am

swbluto wrote:It is called freedom of speech, and one that might actually work towards a greater benefit. "Moving on with your life" is a fairly vague notion, and I don't really take that notion seriously from someone who dwells in the cess-pool.

It makes no difference whether or not you take me seriously, or whether or not this is based on where I post. The crux of this discussion concerns debating members that are banned or being allowed to second guess thee moderators ad nauseum, when you are not privy to all the information. There is no guaranteed Freedom of Speech- ANYWHERE.

Certainly not on a privately owned forum.

If you think I am wrong- post a KKK placard in your yard and see how long it takes for your company to fire you. Or better yet go to work and post about how sorry the health insurance is on the break room bulletin board.

There certainly is no room for one sided arguments about people that have lost the ability to defend themselves. Where is their freedom of Speech? They can't even speak!

If you are really at a loss as to why certain actions were taken, you should take it up via PM with the Mods.

Moving on may be a "vague notion" but, I can assure you in this instance- it is the best course. Let go man.

TylerDurden · Post by **TylerDurden** » May 21 2009 7:46am

EMF wrote:The best way to handle such situations is via PM.

Disagree.

Open discussion promotes accountability, peer review, synergy, yadda yadda...

For example, chew on this idea:
Failure to comply with moderator-issued directives results in suspension for month... three suspensions = permanent suspension.

EMF · Post by **EMF** » May 21 2009 8:03am

TylerDurden wrote:
EMF wrote:The best way to handle such situations is via PM.
Disagree.

Open discussion promotes accountability, peer review, synergy, yadda yadda...

For example, chew on this idea:
Failure to comply with moderator-issued directives results in suspension for month... three suspensions = permanent suspension.

I think we are talking about two different things. I am talking about affected members that have been disciplined and you are talking about the membership giving input on designing new policy or adjusting present policy.

I agree open discussion is good, and I think in policy matters that even here with the small staff, this is what they have when it concerns an actual policy matter, affecting an individual member. But, that is their job, not ours.

If we go public with policy action, the already tedious process of an administration deciding what to do about a member, will then be re-hashed by an even larger group- the membership. Finding a consensus will be difficult and time consuming for the volunteers.

Having said that, it could be helpful if the membership gave input on new policy, rule changes etc. If this is what you are talking about I agree. But, I think that is what this particular forum subject speaks to- so i really don't get it.

I just don't want to see the forum run by "mob action" or cliques. Then, all you have is a vigilante justice and this always ends in boneheaded decisions. Emotions run high and logic goes out the window. It does not work and the mods have to step in and lock the thread. This is exactly what happened here yesterday so, we can see this is true.

This is why I say PM, when it concerns the application of policy to a particular member. If you don't know why something was done- simply ask privately what happened. I am sure if the mods are able to tell you they will.

TylerDurden · Post by **TylerDurden** » May 21 2009 8:39am

EMF wrote:I agree open discussion is good, and I think in policy matters that even here with the small staff, this is what they have when it concerns a policy matter. But in my experience it does not work well in a text based situation, with the entire membership. In addition, if you do that, then the already tedious process of an administration deciding what to do about a member, will then be re-hashed by an even larger group- the membership. Finding a consensus will be difficult and time consuming for the volunteers.

Let's not confuse consensus & decision with transparency and opinion. Discussion about what happened and why, doesn't mean making or changing policy by popular vote. It does provide channels for knowing how decisions are guided and if they fit with the interests of any member who participates & contributes.
i.e. If I know how/why someone gets banned, I can engage in the manner I feel is appropriate... If I don't know why, and can't discuss it, I may assume it is arbitrary and change my manner of contribution.

Generally, I rekon until we have a clear knowledge that a BB is run unreasonably, we expect a reasonable process (IMO).

As for members getting personal and having threads locked:

EMF wrote:This forum has really deteriorated into something pathetic... Who's going to be the prom queen this year? What a bunch of gutless jackasses. It reminds me of high school kids and chatty cliques. A high school run by a bunch of frikkin' re-sellers. You can run anyone down but one of them. Preferably someone that isn't around anymore that can't defend themselves.

Dude.. the guy is banned! STFU

How's about re-naming this place to Endless-Bullshit?

Sheesh, EMF edits faster than I can compose (6x). I'll just post this for now... I can't keep re-editing to address his latest edits.

EMF · Post by **EMF** » May 21 2009 8:46am

yes, I edited my post way down as it was too long. LOL, well lets just see how well your channels work. I say it will never happen....

Oh, I stand by my comment about the cliques and re-sellers - it may not be endearing, but, it is not false. I just see this crap escalating by the day. Time will tell.

Post by **nutsandvolts** » May 21 2009 9:03am

EMF · Post by **EMF** » May 21 2009 9:45am

nutsandvolts wrote:Where is the forum deteriorating? I don't see it. It's not like everyone is required to read everything posted.
It all sounds like mountains made out mole hills to me. Why is it that any mention of S--- gets you so riled up?

Maybe you are right. I just have seen some things lately that tend to point in the direction I am talking about. Lets just wait and see what happens in the long run.

Reid Welch · Post by **Reid Welch** » Aug 02 2009 1:42pm

oh, really?

Re: ES Rules - Have your say !

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 26&t=11898

I think you are a hypocrite, Ypedal

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 26&t=11749

In your opening post of this thread, you talk about how we hate rulezes.

YOU are a prime problem and cause for people to EXIT this place.
We lost knoxie....what did HE do, h'uh?

SEE, I have just cited two threads that YOU ruined.
IN THE VERY ACT of citing said-threads, I have violated YOUR OWN MADE UP FAKE HYPOCRITICAL
POWER TRIPPING AUTOCRATICAL manner of acting. Good that your avatar shows a guy in a flame suit;

a feller could get burned, y' know?

Barney Fife now.

Reid Welch · Post by **Reid Welch** » Aug 02 2009 4:23pm

TylerDurden wrote:
EMF wrote:The best way to handle such situations is via PM.
Disagree.

Open discussion promotes accountability, peer review, synergy, yadda yadda...

For example, chew on this idea:
Failure to comply with moderator-issued directives results in suspension for month... three suspensions = permanent suspension.

Wellsir. Then we has just agreed for the first time ever to disagree,
from this here hex-am-ple: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 26&t=11898 :

Ypedal wrote:Reid.. please give it a rest.....we've covered this already.

Yep, no worning's by PM, no gentle reproofs, just repetitions in public to MAKE SMALL OF ME,

or my name ain't

Barney Fife
(an' it ain't)

Your pal, all,

McTeague
(I starred in GREED, the movie, in a make believe way, and I am role-playing for a reason)
Mr. Ypedal knocked that dying bird from my tender paw and killed it, he did).

--

Post by **Ypedal** » Aug 02 2009 4:52pm

Time to adjust the signal to noise ratio a bit i think..

Reid, don't take it so personal. myself " me " i can ignore what i don't have any interest in reading but this forum is not just you and me.. it's a whole lot of members as well..and your threads are getting flagged for moderation lately, in order to make a judgment call i need to read the entire thing and honesly Reid, alot of your stuff is just too deep for average human consuption.

You have shared great knowledge and wisdome over the years, great stuff really.. but lately you seem to be in a rut and emotions are getting the best of you..

Honestly i'm not sure how to aproach this situation, you cause no harm, and don't give any bad advice when it comes to the technical stuff so really.... no harm no foul.. but as much as we let off-topic stuff slide there has to be a limit.

Starting a new thread, to point to an existing thread, falls in the " Attention whore " category.. forum faut-pas on any other forums i've been part of. it's clutter and if we let this run rampant it will become impossible to maintain order.

everyone, Right ? Wrong ?

TylerDurden · Post by **TylerDurden** » Aug 02 2009 6:00pm

There is value to having all exchanges and admonitions open to view. Gentle or harsh, 'in the public eye' keeps all accountable. (Kinda like having live video in all cop-cars, eh?)

Ypedal's posts do not strike me as belittling.

FWIW, The cesspool might not self prune (unlike the General section). Posts meant for posterity might actually live longer in the CP. Check with KnightMB on that. If one truly wishes to leave an online legacy, webhosting can be had for pennies and one can be one's own moderator.

Zoot Katz · Post by **Zoot Katz** » Aug 02 2009 6:06pm

Ypedal wrote:Time to adjust the signal to noise ratio a bit i think..

Reid, don't take it so personal. myself " me " i can ignore what i don't have any interest in reading but this forum is not just you and me.. it's a whole lot of members as well..and your threads are getting flagged for moderation lately, in order to make a judgment call i need to read the entire thing and honesly Reid, alot of your stuff is just too deep for average human consuption.

You have shared great knowledge and wisdome over the years, great stuff really.. but lately you seem to be in a rut and emotions are getting the best of you..

Honestly i'm not sure how to aproach this situation, you cause no harm, and don't give any bad advice when it comes to the technical stuff so really.... no harm no foul.. but as much as we let off-topic stuff slide there has to be a limit.

Starting a new thread, to point to an existing thread, falls in the " Attention whore " category.. forum faut-pas on any other forums i've been part of. it's clutter and if we let this run rampant it will become impossible to maintain order.

everyone, Right ? Wrong ?

My tupence before we go into lockdown:

I wish Reid would get around to finishing his submersible e-Zee cruiser.
That was a good thread but a long time ago now.

Lenny Bruce stopped being funny when he became embroiled in his legal cases. (and defending free speech for all of us living today.)
Unless the twists and turns of any litigations involve ebikes they should be no more than a personal footnote if mentioned at all.

I still feel that the moderators do an exemplary job of winnowing out the chaff in the free breeze that flows through this forum.

To enjoy the tolerance of this forum is refreshing and holds forth hope for humanity.
To abuse that tolerance in order to find a presumably enthralled audience, is just abusive.

Post by **nutsandvolts** » Aug 02 2009 6:49pm

Mr. Mik · Post by **Mr. Mik** » Aug 03 2009 4:42am

Over on VisforVoltage there is an "Ignore User" button.

I've got three users on my list so far, but always click the "View the post" button anyway, just to confirm I was right about putting them in my ignore list. I'm such a sucker!