The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by cj0 » Apr 30 2018 2:36am

Yesterday I tried to update, and the 1.026 firmware is not yet available (1.025 is the most recent version).

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by Merlin » May 02 2018 9:02pm

justin_le wrote:
Apr 18 2018 5:00am

Yeah this is a very new issue and we've had two people (the poster here and one other user) recently have this situation where the charger works fine with the v1.024 FW but has starting glitches with 1.025 (either Pwr Fault or a premature Charge Complete). If there is anybody else who has witnessed this on the firmware update please get in touch with us. We'll be able to issue an updated debug firmware that outputs a log file which should help us pinpoint just what is going on in the startup sequence.
i buyed this week also a satiator. excuse me if i missed a solution deep in this thread. but i have the same problem.

it is 1.025 Firware on it. i have only charged a 14s Battery and a 22s Battery so far.
it starts with "Charge Complete" and sometimes with Pwr Fault" after that once or twice it starts normal charging.

Is there any software "update" out? because iam from germany and i think sending to canada isnt a solution :(

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by Merlin » May 04 2018 10:27am

Today I found out that "my" satiator shows me way higher voltage then it is.

I measured with 2 different multimeter + adaptto display
-direct from battery... 91,2v
-after all connectors direct on the XLR from satiator.... 91,2v
-display adaptto bms... 91,4v
-display satiator :92,4v (fully charged 22s)

- a single lipo 10s battery... 41,2v
- connected to satiator 41,7v

I could do another test with the Junsi4010 rc charger but since I balance my 8+8+6 battery pack with it and it shows me same voltages on adapttos display + bms I'll think
My satiator needs a replacement :(

I'll send this topic for explaining to grin support now.

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by robbie » May 04 2018 2:12pm

Just to let everyone know, the 1.026 FW was released, and you can use your Satiator Software Suite to grab the latest file using File -> Check for new Firmware.
Satiator Software Update.jpg
Satiator Software Update.jpg (30.43 KiB) Viewed 1356 times
You'll need an internet connection to do this.

This update fixes the "False Charge Complete" bug at the beginning of charge cycles, which would lead to erroneous power fault conditions.

It is recommended that users update to this latest version of firmware. Software update releases will follow as well for other minor bug fixes included default profiles included in the software bundle.

Thanks for the continued feedback and support by purchasing the Satiator!

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by pmc » May 05 2018 9:25pm

Hi,
My ebike (vintage electric cafe) has a Higo 6-pin connector. Is that an adaptor for the Satiator that will fit?

Thanks

Image

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by amberwolf » May 06 2018 1:40am

I havent seen a 6pin used for charging yet. Are you certain thats the charging input?

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by pmc » May 06 2018 2:52am

amberwolf wrote:
May 06 2018 1:40am
I havent seen a 6pin used for charging yet. Are you certain thats the charging input?
that's definitely the charging input, right on the top of the battery pack. The male cable end says "Higo" on it, I tracked it down to this:

http://www.higoconnector.com/products/z ... V99K#title

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by cj0 » Jul 17 2018 2:37am

Even with firmware 1.026 a charging error has returned at hardware revision 48VR7.

Now the Cycle Satiator display tells me alternatingly:

1.) "Shorted",
the displayed voltage climbed from 33.2V to 34.1V in a night of trying to charge.

2.) "Connect battery" 31.6V (at 33.2V shorted)

3.) Then 33.3V

4.) Next the Satiator shows 31.7V and decreases to 0.0V

Yesterday the issue started, and with some fiddling by power cycling the Cycle Satiator would continue to start charging. Today it will not even start the charging process for a 13s battery pack.

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by caledondave » Jul 18 2018 10:35am

Hi,

This is my first post. I bought my first e-bike kit in 2008 from Grin. It came with a trangular NiCad battery. The battery has not been treated kindly. I let it freeze in the winter and bake in the summer. Now I want to start e-biking my fat self to work because the price of gas is really high. My NiCad battery charges but not too well. I am wondering if I purchase the battery satiator if it will talk nicely to my battery and fix it so it operates like it did when it was brand new. Does anyone know if the new battery satiators from Grin work on NiCad batteries?

Thanks

Caledon Dave

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by tomjasz » Jul 18 2018 12:31pm

caledondave wrote:
Jul 18 2018 10:35am
Hi,

This is my first post. I bought my first e-bike kit in 2008 from Grin. It came with a trangular NiCad battery. The battery has not been treated kindly. I let it freeze in the winter and bake in the summer. Now I want to start e-biking my fat self to work because the price of gas is really high. My NiCad battery charges but not too well. I am wondering if I purchase the battery satiator if it will talk nicely to my battery and fix it so it operates like it did when it was brand new. Does anyone know if the new battery satiators from Grin work on NiCad batteries?

Thanks

Caledon Dave
Yes, see the Saitiator manual for details.
http://www.ebikes.ca/documents/Satiator ... V1.0FW.pdf
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by amberwolf » Jul 19 2018 12:08am

The satiator does work on NiCd batteries, but it won't magically make your battery better.

Sometimes charging and discahrging and recharging a NiXX type pack will help it some, but not usually bring it back to how well it worked before. Your original charger can probably do this as well as the Satiator would.

If any of the cells have grown dendrites inside, that's rather permanent damage. (even if you zap the dendrites with one of the various methods, the holes in the layers/separators are still there). It's a common failure mode of these cells.

Since the Satiator will also charge about any other battery type as well, it wouldn't hurt to get one and try to revive your battery pack with it. If it doesn't help then when you get a new battery you can still use the Satiator on it.


But...the Satiator isn't cheap, and a new Lithium battery of comparable voltage and Ah and C-rate could probably be had for not a huge amount more than the Satiator. The new battery will also be smaller and lighter for the same capacity.

As much as I like the Satiator, if I were in your situation, I'd be spending the money on a new battery instead.

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by cj0 » Jul 20 2018 8:47am

cj0 wrote:
Jul 17 2018 2:37am
... firmware 1.026...

1.) "Shorted",
the displayed voltage climbed from 33.2V to 34.1V in a night of trying to charge.
2.) "Connect battery" 31.6V (at 33.2V shorted)
For the **Shorted** issue I am still wondering why the charging process wouldn’t a 13S pack at approximately 31.6 volts (according to the Cycle Satiator “Connect Battery” screen display). According to the manual re-charge should to occur below 2.0 volts per cell. Which is approximately equal to 26 volts. Trickle charge for the profiles are set to operate in the 21 V to 30-ish volts range. I do expect the charger to charge a 32v deep discharged pack. For a low discharged pack, I am expecting the “Connect Battery” message according to the manual. Instead I am receiving the “Shorted” message.

@Grin: Please provide feedback.

Though now forced start charging 32V discharged packs, the Grin Cycle Satiator still not issue free. The next of issues is a mains connection that seems flaky. I hear a spark inside and display is off. A few seconds later the charger restarts again and splash screen is shown.
Connect Battery 31.6V.jpg
Connect Battery 31.6V.jpg (122.41 KiB) Viewed 1056 times
Shorted 33.3V.jpg
Shorted 33.3V.jpg (101.27 KiB) Viewed 1056 times

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by Hayds13 » Jul 20 2018 7:12pm

Hi Cj0,

You could try lowering the amps? (some BMS will register fault if current is too high)
Does your battery charge ok on another charger? (if not, then battery might be at fault)
Does the battery charge ok, when only half discharged? (might indicate configuration issue of Satiator. Or BMS does not like low voltage)

If I create a new profile in SatiatorSofwareSuite for 13S ( 56.4 Full volts, 2A Bulk Current) my defaults settings are:
- Min Starting Voltage 28.2v (if yours is higher...maybe the satiator will not start?)
- Start Current 0.20
- Bulk Start Voltage: 39.5v (your voltages seems to be lower then this...not sure if this is an issue?)
- Charge Complete Current: 0.15A
are yours similar?

Maybe try contacting Grin via directly. http://www.ebikes.ca/about-us/contact-grin.html

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by cj0 » Jul 31 2018 7:50am

Hi Hayds13,

I did try to lower the charging current from 5.5A to 2.0A.

This is my low current 48V Li-Ion profile:
Full volts: 54.6V
Bulk amps: 2.0A
Complete A: 0.1A
Trickle Start: 27.3V
Trickle End: 38.2V
Trickle Amps: 0.2A

Charging (custom made) cable resistance is set to 0.036 Ohm, the value I measured "single run" (18mOhm) times two. Resistance measurement was made using a 4-wire measurement [PeakTech 2705].
My Cycle Satiator serial starts with 0031726XXX.

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by cj0 » Aug 05 2018 5:30pm

Hi Forum users,

Having changed the "Advanced Settings" of the Cycle Satiator on the device itself to custom values, then connecting the Satiator to the computer via USB, starting the Satiator Software Suite (1.101), then connecting the Suite to the Satiator, creating New Profiles in the Software Suite, and finally choose "Save Data".

When that "Save Data" action changes your customised "Advanced Settings" to default values, would you consider that behavior a bug?

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by Ebuilt » Aug 08 2018 11:02pm

Am I understanding correctly...a 72v cycle satiator can charge my 10000mah 6s hobbyking lipo4 battery?

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by amberwolf » Aug 09 2018 12:07am

Ebuilt wrote:
Aug 08 2018 11:02pm
Am I understanding correctly...a 72v cycle satiator can charge my 10000mah 6s hobbyking lipo4 battery?
It should, but you don't need a 72v version for 6s, which in LiFePO4 is only going to be about 22V full.


Note that since your battery probably doesn't have a BMS, you'll need a voltmeter or other way to check balance periodically, and if the pack has troulbe staying in balance you'll need a way to fix that, like the Battery Medic, or other balancer (just beware, not all of them work on LiFePO4, and not all of them are very good).

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by Ebuilt » Aug 09 2018 12:42am

Yeah I feel ya man. My other ride is a 72v and Im building a kepler friction drive so Im diving into 6s lipo4 world and at the same time the old standby charger is about to pass on the spirit because its a rebranded shiny anodized blue turd. Im not really too angry as it- it was cheap. What I am angry about though is that my bluetooth telemetry device, my CA3, and my charger all think that the battery charge is at different levels. But then again, I shop in the “used” section. At the end of the day, I want to go solar someday and until I do that I want to clean up my game a little bit and stop doing drugs. I mean, I want a 72v satiator because it can keep my fleet running with one unit, and thats what I need.

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by oger » Aug 09 2018 8:43am

Hi,

I have a problem with the satiator. It used to work ok, but I remember I never was able to update the firmware
even when it still connected to the computer. Now when I hold down the arrow button when powering up the display even stays off.
I also sent an email to grin.
Here's the problem:
I was using the satiator for quite a while and today suddenly it showed a message that no charging profile is found.
I reprogrammed a profile but after unplugging it, that was lost as well.
Connection to a computer failed:
"
An error occurred while importing profiles.

This can happen when trying to connect to a Satiator with outdated firmware or outdated profiles. Please click here for more information on how to upgrade to the latest firmware correctly.
"
But I can’t update the firmware if I can not connect to a computer…
My current firmware is 1.008
The serial (as noted on the device):

0021419117
WE8228
0005


maybe anyone has similar problems?

cheers,
Stefan

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by cj0 » Aug 17 2018 2:43pm

Would Grin please release a SatiatorSoftwareSuite update for Build: v1.101 that doesn't overwrite "Advanced Settings"with default values when writing/saving profiles or advanced settings to the Cycle Satiator?

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by MiMa » Sep 25 2018 12:41pm

oger wrote:
Aug 09 2018 8:43am
Hi,
....
Here's the problem:
I was using the satiator for quite a while and today suddenly it showed a message that no charging profile is found.
.....
cheers,
Stefan
Hello Stefan,

A few days ago I also had the problem that the charger didn't show any profiles after plugging it into the power supply, they were all deleted. I reinstalled the profiles with the PC software, a software update for the charger was not offered by the PC tool.

I'm currently on vacation so I can't specify the software/hardware version. I bought the device two months ago from a dealer in Germany, I assume that the latest software is currently installed.

Will to further tests after my return.

Cheers
Mike

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by justin_le » Oct 03 2018 9:20pm

cj0 wrote:
Aug 05 2018 5:30pm
When that "Save Data" action changes your customised "Advanced Settings" to default values, would you consider that behavior a bug?
Hey cj0, this behavior is indeed a bug in the software that we know about. Few people change the advanced device settings in this way so it hasn't come up very often but we will see that it is resolved on the next update of the Satiator suite. The reminder is appreciated and I've bumped it up to the team.
oger wrote:
Aug 09 2018 8:43am
I was using the satiator for quite a while and today suddenly it showed a message that no charging profile is found.
My current firmware is 1.008
This issue is a known issue in the 1.008 firmware that is discussed in this post
viewtopic.php?p=1141978#p1141978
While the profiles appeared lost, they are still present on the device and will appear again once the firmware is updated.

However, if people have situations of the profiles appearing to vanish with the current V1.026 firmware, then that is something new that we will want to investigate so please contact Grin by email so that we can get more details and possibly exchange the device.
Currently recovering from the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by redorblack » Oct 05 2018 4:55pm

I bought a Satiator for charging a couple of Luna 52v 20Ah packs, a no name Chinese 72v 50Ah pouch brick and a couple of 36v 10ah packs in series for 72v.

Really liking the charger with my only concern being how hot it gets. How hot is acceptable?

I really like getting to measure how much energy used to charge a pack rather than just a calculation of capacity. Being potted, I'm carrying it with me under the seat of my Zap Zapino although I can ride about a week without recharging that one. The 85% charge profiles along with being able to fully charge when needed is a nice touch.

Scott

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by BVH » Oct 06 2018 12:37pm

Not a technical answer to your question but... I raise my Satiator a half inch off the surface to expose most of the bottom and then run a 4" fan full-time over the top and bottom surfaces whenever I use mine. Makes a huge difference in case outer temp. It seems to me that all the internals will last longer when run cooler.

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Re: The Cycle Satiator, universal charger for the enthusiasts

Post by pucksterpete » Oct 06 2018 2:06pm

I agree with the above. I use a fan on mine all the time when charging, case stays nice and cool
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