icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
Monkeyman   1 µW

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by Monkeyman » Feb 13 2021 6:16am

My first Post in this forum. :D Well I was stupid enough to connect my icharger 208b to my ebike battery not thinking of the 32V Voltage limit. It has been sitting around for about a year now. Before throwing it away I decided to check the insides again.
The input voltage regulator was heating up when i connected the charger to the input voltage. So I guess that thing is gone.
Pin 3 is connected to Ground
Pin 4,5 somehow to Vin
Pin 2 somehow to the output voltage.

Long story short. It seems to be an LM2587S ADJ
I don't think it is a fixed Voltage because somewhere after PIN 2 there is a "voltage diveder" with two resistors. I couldn't exactly measure the values but the fixed voltages would connect directly to Vout as Pin 2 is the feedback line.
In the progress of desoldering i sadly messed up the pad of the pcb for pin 2. Maybe I can fix it somehow. First I'll order one these.

@FalconFour: Maybe it helps if you plan to fix your 3010b.

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by FalconFour » Feb 23 2021 2:34am

Oh wow. I never imagined trying that one... it's a step-up (boost) converter. Unless they're abusing the design (seems unlikely given the complexity of these things), that doesn't seem right. How'd you come upon that... is there a slightly less abridged version of long story short? :)

I've still got my 3010b, but I suspect there's more the matter with it than just the regulator, now (initially, it was chosen as a donor because I bonked it with a brief spike of reverse-polarity across 16-or-so NiMH cells with ambiguous markings - it would no longer "start", it'd just "battery check" and then reboot itself). So I think the 3010b sacrificed itself to save my 208b, now I have two perfectly working 208b's - one with a neat white-on-black LCD display (after I couldn't get the OLED replacement working).

Curious to see what you find with that replacement. Sadly, can't say I expect miracles, but bring up voltage slowly with a controlled supply to find out! If it's the wrong chip, you could easily smoke the 5v control guts if you give it 12v and expect it to regulate down. Start it off at 5 volts and, say, 500mA, on a bench supply, to keep from giving it too much magic to smoke with. :) Before you try bringing it up any higher, measure the voltage at ... eh, hmm, the electrolytic cap on mine was on its side under the LCD - that's what you'd probe to see what voltage the logic was getting. It should be 5v.

If you see it following your supply voltage, that's bad mojo, back off it... you can start to let out magic smoke around 7v on a 5v circuit, so that should be enough room to tinker around and see if it's following your voltage or not (it should not, it should stay 5v). :)

BUT THEN AGAIN...
The MOSFET gate drivers run at 12v :? :? :? But the supply goes down to 4.5v. So maybe, it just might be a boost after all, in some weird way to create a dual voltage output. Hmmmm...

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DogDipstick   100 kW

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by DogDipstick » Feb 23 2021 8:50am

FalconFour wrote:
Feb 23 2021 2:34am
ying that one... it's a step-up (boost) converter. Un

o maybe, it just might be a boost after all, in some weird way to create a dual voltage output. Hmmmm...
IDK aboot the Icharger..

but my Powerlabs ( 6s-32s, 1000w-5,400 watts, 1-4 channel, ) are certainly both a buck AND boost converter, each with their own ( differnet) efficiencies. Easily calculatable.
84v of Ironhorse XC.. :) :bolt: by Chevy :bolt: :D You call .. that.. a "glitch:" ? :twisted: (...No Mom. The formula is Kaw > 1(Hr) = Impounded. The math checks out. I'll be fine. ).. :? Broke20Horsies! 17,830w !! :x 1 (pound / second) Hp = 338.24 M^2 Kg^2 / Sec^4 ( :twisted: 1200v? :twisted: ) :| isn't 13" x 27".. Oh nvrmnd :roll: 4+25% = 5 ; 5-20% = 4... 5(1-20%) = 4.. so, to correct the incorrect reading, of 4 ... 4(1+25%) = 5 :confused: Fabricator @BSECo.

Monkeyman   1 µW

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by Monkeyman » Feb 24 2021 6:48am

I actually managed to get the 208b running again yesterday. It was a nightmare getting the display desoldered. I was wise enough to order a spare display, so i kind of destroyed the whole display and the pins and desoldered them one by one.
Replacing the voltage regulator was also a pain and i really don't know if the whole surface is soldered to the pcb but i hope it won't get too hot.

I started off searching for all kinds of voltage regulators with the voltage input range of the icharger (3-32V) which didn't get me too far. I searched through a lot of datasheets but in most of them the design example was not even close to what I could figure out from the icharger,
In the end it helped me that I could hardly see a Logo carved into the IC what appered to be National Seminconductor.
So I thought if i can identify the logo maybe i can make something else visible.
First i took a couple of picture with different lighting. I imagined that i could at least read something like "LM" written on it.
Final approach was toothpaste. I could not identify all numbers right away but after googling a little i narrowed it down.
I first thought of the fixed 5V version but as i stated before PIN 2 would be connected directly to the Output Voltage.

I guess there was a lot of luck to it. Seems somebody also made a mistake not to mill the ic a little deeper :wink:

FalconFour   10 µW

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by FalconFour » Feb 25 2021 1:09am

Holy crap, that is incredible.

I'm going to buy one, then, and see if it powers my 3010b back up. If it does that, then it's a solution for the over-volt failures, at least (because putting the 3010b's original working reg into my 208b is what repaired it from an over-voltage event).

Indeed, a bit of a mistake not fully sanding off that part number, as all of mine so far have been dutifully sanded off. haha. Awesome break, there!

Oh, and the trick to desoldering the screen is a hot high powered iron (I use a TS100 with Ralim's firmware, a 6s LiPo, and a proper D24 tip, not the conical crap they include), and to add extra solder and sweep the pins in groups, keeping it level but lifting/slightly bending one edge at a time, sweep across to level out the tension, heat and lift a group on the other edge, back and forth, until eventually it detaches and you can keep it all molten to remove. Then, solder-wick the excess solder away (always cut the wick before applying it so it doesn't burn more flux in the unused portions!), and you'll have a reusable screen ;) That is... if you don't accidentally pull too hard and rip pads off the board (my case, lol).

FalconFour   10 µW

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by FalconFour » Jun 11 2021 10:51pm

Okay, back again (man, this is a saga, isn't it?). I finally bought, received, and installed the LM2587S - specifically, here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/324069759884

Guess what? It worked. :shock:

However, due to the existing damage that led the charger to being relegated to parts anyway (had reverse polarity at reasonably high voltage applied to the output), I ended up on a rollercoaster ride: first, somehow bridged pins on the LM' chip though I carefully avoided that... had a false start of "oh well, didn't work", started listing it for parts... realized the bridged pins, fixed it, it booted up, great! Noticed that U7 was getting quite hot with no operation running... ohmed it out, found it near shorted, broke it off. Then the charger booted and seemed to work (would charge & discharge!). But only if input < output voltage - that is, it'd work in boost, but not buck mode. In my curiosity, I played with slowly raising input > output while charging... aaaaand it fried itself again.

This time, it just has "seizures on the floor" whenever voltage is applied, making sparking and sputtering sounds, with the display flickering and literally saying "AAAAAA....AAAAAA" in waves on the screen. How uh... :oops: yikes. Never seen a piece of gear screaming in pain so clearly...

So I finally put it out of its misery... listed it on eBay for parts for $20 and very clearly "not working" :lol:

Oh well. We at least know that the LM2587S-ADJ is indeed the correct replacement for this whole class of iChargers (at least verified on my 3010B and 208B's). Maybe that'll help rescue a few more iChargers that have been over-volted :)

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Ianhill   100 MW

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by Ianhill » Jun 15 2021 5:17pm

I must of won the charger lottery, ive had a 1010b+ for bout 10 years now still going.

Its got a dc jack that accidently had a 12v ac plugged in the cap didnt like that let a bit of smoke out but it still worked fine, the lcd has a little fault on one of the pixels but its a trooper been everywhere kept on charging but i tend to stay to 200w on it as 300w is psuhing it gets hot i can go to 325w with software but that would need much better cooling.
Infinite hrspwrs.

whatever   100 kW

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by whatever » Apr 29 2022 8:06am

I have an icharger for many many years now, model 208b, only ever used for very light duties
( 24v pack at 1amp charge), I now get "connection breakdown" error. I see now they are not made anymore but can buy at very high prices in some places, so hope to repair it.
Intention is to repair ( leads all good, power supply stable no spikes....atx computer power supply used)........any suggestions welcomed.
Have taken it apart and cant see anything obvious ( d16 and q26 appear ok), fets all give same readings so assume ok.

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by whatever » May 14 2022 8:00am

so I took out all the mosfets, there are 4 lots of irf3205 and two lots of ssf5508( silkron)
to test. two of the irf3205 dont turn on using multimeter diode tester function
(nice little trick to test mosfets found on many youtube vids)
Since the irf and silkron have similar specs i'll just replace all the fets with irf3205.

whatever   100 kW

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by whatever » May 18 2022 5:35am

I'll document a little on my attempt at repair.
Mistake no.1 : didn't take note of where each mosfet came from on the board, so now I know two fets not working but dont know exact position where located......could have used position to examine drivers etc for those fets.

anyhow here is a pic of the 208b board with fets removed and pic of the top side also, this charger had quite a bit of corrosion on many components which I've sinced cleaned up.
Expecting there to be more than just mosfet problem.
Position where mosfets were is indicated by the rectangular white lines drawn on pcb during manufacture, I also note there are numerous repair videos on youtube for ichargers.
rear.jpg
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front side below, note there are components under the screen also.
front.jpg
front.jpg (676.42 KiB) Viewed 30 times
I will do higher res pics shortly in case someone looking for more details

whatever   100 kW

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Re: icharger failures, detail how your icharger failed

Post by whatever » May 18 2022 5:51am

high res pics you can zoom and read component names
rear high res.jpg
rear high res.jpg (2.39 MiB) Viewed 29 times
Attachments
front high res.jpg
front high res.jpg (1.93 MiB) Viewed 29 times

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