Solderless weldless 36V and 74V batteries could do over 200A

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
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agniusm   10 MW

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Solderless weldless 36V and 74V batteries could do over 200A

Post by agniusm » May 09 2019 2:35pm

Showcasing a bit of my kit. 10S7P. Very easy and quick to build. Little tools required. No heat goes into the cell. Lifetime reusability. Still missing PCM for this one but prewired so almost plug and play.

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Another 20S7P is comming too.
Last edited by agniusm on May 24 2019 12:50am, edited 1 time in total.

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MJSfoto1956   10 kW

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Re: Solderless weldless 36V battery could do 200A

Post by MJSfoto1956 » May 09 2019 3:30pm

These are for 20700/21700?

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agniusm   10 MW

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Re: Solderless weldless 36V battery could do 200A

Post by agniusm » May 09 2019 3:49pm

Not yet :)

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Re: Solderless weldless 36V battery could do 200A

Post by pbert » May 09 2019 4:59pm

what kind of batteries is it composed of? and what material is the casing? waterproof?

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Re: Solderless weldless 36V battery could do 200A

Post by john61ct » May 09 2019 5:58pm

Such a tease. . .

OTS stuff or your custom design?

Intended for what sort of usage? What size cells?

Type of vehicle?

Shock / vibration tested?

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MJSfoto1956   10 kW

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Re: Solderless weldless 36V battery could do 200A

Post by MJSfoto1956 » May 09 2019 6:29pm

agniusm wrote:
May 09 2019 2:35pm
Another 20S7P is comming [sic] too.
So can three of your 20s7p packs be paralleled together for 20s21p?
(assuming a separate BMS external to the packs)
This could be awesome!

M

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Re: Solderless weldless 36V battery could do 200A

Post by liveforphysics » May 10 2019 1:48am

Excited to see more buddy! :bigthumb: :bolt:
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Re: Solderless weldless 36V battery could do 200A

Post by flippy » May 10 2019 1:56am

how do you ensure a solid heat resistant connecton with the cell terminals?
Lithium beats liquid dinosaurs.

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agniusm   10 MW

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Re: Solderless weldless 36V battery could do 200A

Post by agniusm » May 11 2019 6:17am

MJSfoto1956 wrote:
May 09 2019 6:29pm
agniusm wrote:
May 09 2019 2:35pm
Another 20S7P is comming [sic] too.
So can three of your 20s7p packs be paralleled together for 20s21p?
(assuming a separate BMS external to the packs)
This could be awesome!

M
You can parallel as many as you want. You can have 100 parallel modules, then series them into whatever.
flippy wrote:
May 10 2019 1:56am
how do you ensure a solid heat resistant connecton with the cell terminals?
I use rogers low set polyuretane foam. Works good. I only have 2.5 years of testing on it, but it should hold up good in time
john61ct wrote:
May 09 2019 5:58pm
Such a tease. . .

OTS stuff or your custom design?

Intended for what sort of usage? What size cells?

Type of vehicle?

Shock / vibration tested?
This for e-bike. People use them on e-skateboards, e-foils, trikes, motorcycles, LEV's, dont know how they called, underwater scooter, the puller thing.
liveforphysics wrote:
May 10 2019 1:48am
Excited to see more buddy! :bigthumb: :bolt:
There is a thread with more stuff in for sale section.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... se&start=0

I also have a wee shop @ www.18650.lt or www.1865o.com

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Re: Solderless weldless 36V battery could do 200A

Post by MJSfoto1956 » May 11 2019 7:09am

ah I see -- the red "channel" is a custom part for tidying up the balance wires.
(I thought this was a new design)

What would such a custom channel cost in addition to the modules?

M

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Re: Solderless weldless 36V battery could do 200A

Post by agniusm » May 11 2019 11:34am

MJSfoto1956 wrote:
May 11 2019 7:09am
ah I see -- the red "channel" is a custom part for tidying up the balance wires.
(I thought this was a new design)

What would such a custom channel cost in addition to the modules?

M
I have started offering new service. Whoever purchases battery kits can ask for custom parts. It could be bms enclosure channels or even not battery or electric related, e.g. bracket or phone holder. You can make whatever you need to suit your build and get it with paying single shipping. The catch is that you have to model your parts yourself (if I dont have them) as it is costly work and no one will pay for single part :)
You can contact me privately and we can discuss whatever solution you need. agnius@1865o.com

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Re: Solderless weldless 36V battery could do 200A

Post by liveforphysics » May 11 2019 8:29pm

flippy wrote:
May 10 2019 1:56am
how do you ensure a solid heat resistant connecton with the cell terminals?
Thats the challenge you solve when you do a solderless pack. As many ways to solve it as your creativity supports. It seems like an easier challenge IMHO than solving thermal damage to cells.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

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Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

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Re: Solderless weldless 36V battery could do 200A

Post by john61ct » May 11 2019 9:19pm

Ideally the solution to that issue implemented with **these** boxes would be outlined in greater detail

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flippy   100 kW

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Re: Solderless weldless 36V battery could do 200A

Post by flippy » May 12 2019 4:37am

liveforphysics wrote:
May 11 2019 8:29pm
Thats the challenge you solve when you do a solderless pack. As many ways to solve it as your creativity supports. It seems like an easier challenge IMHO than solving thermal damage to cells.
no, that is the challenge that the designer of this sytem should have solved and i am asking how he did that.
Lithium beats liquid dinosaurs.

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Re: Solderless weldless 36V battery could do 200A

Post by agniusm » May 12 2019 6:48am

flippy wrote:
May 12 2019 4:37am
liveforphysics wrote:
May 11 2019 8:29pm
Thats the challenge you solve when you do a solderless pack. As many ways to solve it as your creativity supports. It seems like an easier challenge IMHO than solving thermal damage to cells.
no, that is the challenge that the designer of this sytem should have solved and i am asking how he did that.
Your question: "how do you ensure a solid heat resistant connecton with the cell terminals?"
is unclear. Do you mean solid connection or heat resistant connection or both? Cell terminals? You mean cell itself?
Dont know what it has to do with heat? It is made so least heat is generated while in use and none when assembled. Heat is bad for cells and idealy you want them at room temp. On my tests when cells were approaching 90C, terminals exiting modules where at ~40C. Its very simple solution and there is not much to describe in-depth. Many are in the wild since 2 years ago and I had not a single complaint. People like that they can assemble most batteries in under an hour and drive them as much as they want.

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Re: Solderless weldless 36V battery could do 200A

Post by john61ct » May 12 2019 2:49pm

agniusm wrote:Your question: "how do you ensure a solid heat resistant connecton with the cell terminals?" is unclear.
Couldn't you just do your best to try to actually **answer** the question?

Both physically solid and low heat at the connection are required, very much go together.

Ideally vibration / shock resistance are rated with standardized tests.

A connection getting intermittently loose creates high resistance, in the wrong situation / location could easily melt any plastic or even start a fire.

So, more specifically, what exactly is maintaining a constantly strong connection to / between the cells as they rattle and roll maybe get into a crash etc?

What is joining the cathode / anode ends to the connecting wires / strips / plates / springs?

If no substance like a conductive adhesive, just friction, then what X is providing the force / pressure, and how much?

Does that pressure reduce over time as X weakens with age, or shock / vibration take their toll?

Is there a spring in there? If foam / rubber, then link to its specs for this use case,

etc etc


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Re: Solderless weldless 36V battery could do 200A

Post by 999zip999 » May 12 2019 3:22pm

Go to his website and you can see that he uses a 3M brand of some sort of foam

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Re: Solderless weldless 36V battery could do 200A

Post by agniusm » May 13 2019 4:07am

john61ct wrote:
May 12 2019 2:49pm
agniusm wrote:Your question: "how do you ensure a solid heat resistant connecton with the cell terminals?" is unclear.
Couldn't you just do your best to try to actually **answer** the question?


I have to understand the question to be able to answer it. I cant just sit and write a column if someone just flicks fingers at me ;)
Both physically solid and low heat at the connection are required, very much go together.

Ideally vibration / shock resistance are rated with standardized tests.

With current market i cant afford doing standardized tests. I have done DIY imitation test as well as 2 years of field testing on e-skateboards:


A connection getting intermittently loose creates high resistance, in the wrong situation / location could easily melt any plastic or even start a fire.
I have tested this with my DIY rig and oscilloscope. Also with arduino based meter that records data from accelerometer, force sensitive sensor(FSR) and thermistor. No brake in connection observed:

Image
So, more specifically, what exactly is maintaining a constantly strong connection to / between the cells as they rattle and roll maybe get into a crash etc?
I have stated this above, low compression set foam from Rogers, trademarked as Poron. What exactly i use can be dug up on the threads i posted. They don't roll or rattle, they are snug and comfy
What is joining the cathode / anode ends to the connecting wires / strips / plates / springs?

There is tin plated copper tab that has bumps which connect to cells. The ends of the tabs are joined with 1mm thick tin plated copper bus bar to next module or ring lugs for power wires. Here is how all goes together:

Image

Image

Image
If no substance like a conductive adhesive, just friction, then what X is providing the force / pressure, and how much?
Maximum force per cell is 2.04kgf/2.54cm² and when temperature rises over 70C - 1.83kgf/2.54cm²
Does that pressure reduce over time as X weakens with age, or shock / vibration take their toll?
2 years of field testing so far. Manufacturer states 5% set over 10 years.


Is there a spring in there? If foam / rubber, then link to its specs for this use case.[/quote]
Answered already!
etc etc.
Etc etc

P.S. Took many edits to make it readable :lol:

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Re: Solderless weldless 36V battery could do 200A

Post by john61ct » May 13 2019 5:50am

OK, looks good, I guess that solid metal cell holder snaps into the colored plastic boxes?

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Re: Solderless weldless 36V battery could do 200A

Post by agniusm » May 13 2019 10:55am

john61ct wrote:
May 13 2019 5:50am
OK, looks good, I guess that solid metal cell holder snaps into the colored plastic boxes?
Cell holder is petg plastic. That metal is tin plated copper and its fitted beforehand. To be more accurate, cell snaps into assembled holder.

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Re: Solderless weldless 36V battery could do 200A

Post by 999zip999 » May 13 2019 11:13am

What size do you think the 20s7p pack will be ? Good work.

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Re: Solderless weldless 36V battery could do 200A

Post by 999zip999 » May 13 2019 11:15am

What size do you think the 20s7p pack will be ? Good work.
Some Mod delete my double post. Sorry

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Re: Solderless weldless 36V battery could do 200A

Post by Grantmac » May 13 2019 12:44pm

I'd love to see this scaled up to 26xxx series cells since there are a few offering excellent wh/$ these days. Plus many less connections to make.

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Re: Solderless weldless 36V battery could do 200A

Post by agniusm » May 13 2019 1:34pm

999zip999 wrote:
May 13 2019 11:13am
What size do you think the 20s7p pack will be ? Good work.
Single module is 22x74x142 (bolts caps, bus bar, add 10mm)
You can arrange them in over 4 configurations so i cant give you the size. One after another, front to back will be 440x74x142mm. Split that in half and you have 220x148x142mm. Then you can arrange them sideways.
4.62L volumetric. 2.73L(0.723(3/4)gal)/kWh (3.4AH cell)
Last edited by agniusm on May 13 2019 1:46pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Solderless weldless 36V battery could do 200A

Post by agniusm » May 13 2019 1:35pm

Grantmac wrote:
May 13 2019 12:44pm
I'd love to see this scaled up to 26xxx series cells since there are a few offering excellent wh/$ these days. Plus many less connections to make.
I wont have 26650. 21700 should be mid summer. Compatible with 20700 if you dont mind wasted space.

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