BMS broken, damaged cells, or both?

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
999zip999   100 GW

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Re: BMS broken, damaged cells, or both?

Post by 999zip999 » Sep 09 2019 7:23pm

Shit follow then next step haha I was going to give you the next step but you wouldn't give me the info so I could really help you you can't skip the steps 1 2 3 ABC

999zip999   100 GW

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Re: BMS broken, damaged cells, or both?

Post by 999zip999 » Sep 09 2019 7:26pm

Do you have a multi meter set at 200v and ? Then let us know what the voltage is do not read the label and tell me what's on the label verify stick the probe up the and tell me why and tell me the real voltage of the charger. Please.
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Bas   10 W

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Re: BMS broken, damaged cells, or both?

Post by Bas » Sep 09 2019 7:30pm

Oww now I see your question haha The outside of the steel box is ice cold, not warm at all.. With previous bms it did get hot, now with new bms it doesn't warm up at all! So I guess that is positive sign?

999zip999   100 GW

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Re: BMS broken, damaged cells, or both?

Post by 999zip999 » Sep 09 2019 7:32pm

Yes.

Bas   10 W

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Re: BMS broken, damaged cells, or both?

Post by Bas » Sep 09 2019 7:32pm

Stick my voltage mtr pins in the holes of the charger? I think it would give 0.0v, because nothing connected it can charge?

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Re: BMS broken, damaged cells, or both?

Post by Bas » Sep 09 2019 7:35pm

I will try, will be back in 5 minutes with the result.. Thanks man for your patience with me.. :)

999zip999   100 GW

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Re: BMS broken, damaged cells, or both?

Post by 999zip999 » Sep 09 2019 7:36pm

I think Fecter call it one sexond before me. And the device comes from JjhonCR. Then update.
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999zip999   100 GW

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Re: BMS broken, damaged cells, or both?

Post by 999zip999 » Sep 09 2019 7:37pm

No worries I'm waiting for the sun to set in about an hour and a half having a beer and about to light some up. California Love..

Bas   10 W

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Re: BMS broken, damaged cells, or both?

Post by Bas » Sep 09 2019 7:39pm

I checked, it gave 67.2volt..

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Re: BMS broken, damaged cells, or both?

Post by Bas » Sep 09 2019 7:43pm

Hahaha that sounds like a good surrounding.. Me myselve are in quite nice surrounding myselve, enjoying a beer, and not worrying too much about anything else then my bike.. ;-)
And the emptier my special beer fridge becomes, I notice I even start to feel less worried avoit that also :-) :lol: :lol:

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Re: BMS broken, damaged cells, or both?

Post by Bas » Sep 09 2019 8:27pm

Well, I have proven to be a real star at this.. :lol: :lol: Ready for my next project replacing the BMS of my expensive 46Ah Panasonic powerpack.. Not looking forward to this job, but I will put on The Suit to protect me, allthough loud explosions won't be much appreciated at this time of night..
This time, there are some small culprits on the road, more possibilities to do wrong, as shown in the pictures. 2 connectors on the new BMS, 1 on the old... I have special toolset to remove the little wires, amd replace them in the other connector, instinctual I do feel it might be better to do this more in daytime hehehe
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Bas   10 W

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Re: BMS broken, damaged cells, or both?

Post by Bas » Sep 09 2019 8:54pm

Hmm.. I cannot read chinese, but I can read that etiquette does not say 100A continous 200A peak.. :?

Also I miss the C- on the BMSboard for charging wires?

I will wait till tomorrow, till my 150A bluetooth BMS will arrive.. Today I got a notification it is already here in Holland..
Does anybody now it? Difficult?
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Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

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Re: BMS broken, damaged cells, or both?

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Sep 09 2019 10:34pm

Nice job on your BMS replacement :)
Was it a programmable BMS btw or just a "dumb" BMS?
If it's programmable then you will need to check that the settings are correct in the firmware.

Just a remark you might want to consider, it is very possible that your BMS was "only" a 60A for a very good reason. This reason being that your cells cannot deliver more than this kind of current safely for a long time.
Doubling their theoretical output can lead to cell overheating, so failure and even fire in extreme cases.
So you might want to get some info on what your cells can actually deliver, before thinking that the mod you just did is safe.

You said that your battery capacity is 42Ah, which seems pretty high with just 13 cells in parallel. That would mean that your cells are high capacity cells, more than 3200mAh each (42 000mAh / 13 cells), which seem quite optimistic to me. Moreover, high capacity cells are almost always low discharge cells, so you can't really run them at high current, they don't like that.

If you draw 120A from the pack, it means that it will run at roughly 3C ( because 120A / 42Ah = 2.85C ). 3C isn't really a lot, but it's close to the maximum that random chinese cells can offer. And since I don't really trust the fact that the pack is actually 42A (because cells that have more than 3000mAh are quite rare), it is likely to be more than 3C.

Probably nothing catastrophic, but don't expect your cells to last too long.
Last edited by Dui, ni shuo de dui on Sep 09 2019 11:03pm, edited 2 times in total.
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 11 000W Sabvoton 72150, 72V 50Ah LiFePO4 cells: :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=75912

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Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

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Re: BMS broken, damaged cells, or both?

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Sep 09 2019 10:48pm

Bas wrote:
Sep 09 2019 8:54pm
I will wait till tomorrow, till my 150A bluetooth BMS will arrive.. Today I got a notification it is already here in Holland..
Does anybody now it? Difficult?
Yes, I have the 300A version, which is about the same.

It'a a really great BMS for the price, easy to install but a bit difficult to set up properly because you have to use the app and have a bit of knowledge of your battery. But you can get some help in the forum if you post screenshots so it shouldn't be a big problem. The little screen is very nice and convenient, it gives you almost every information you'll ever need (battery state of charge, power draw, Amp draw, individual cell voltages, various temperatures, speed, odometer, ... Really great stuff.

Just, again, make sure that 150A is not going to destroy your cells, BMSs have a power rating for a good reason. At least this BMS is programmable so you'll be able to set up whatever max current your cells can bear. But really keep in mind that the actual limit is likely to be your cells, not your BMS.
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 11 000W Sabvoton 72150, 72V 50Ah LiFePO4 cells: :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=75912

Bas   10 W

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Re: BMS broken, damaged cells, or both?

Post by Bas » Sep 10 2019 10:13am

Hey guys,

Thank you for your replies! So last night I fully charged it, not getting hot at all.. Before with old bms, the steel battery would warm up quit a lot..
Also the voltage today is the same like last night, exactly the same when I checked, 66.9volt.
Today I connected all lights, see picture, that is A Lot of light haha. With all the lights on, it dropped only till 66.8v, that is nothing! And returned afterwards to 66.9v again fast.

Today the new BMS came in, the 150A bluetooth I showed you. This Bms is for my most important, very expensive Panasonic 60v46Ah Powerpack.
I have a very good relationship with scooter fabric, especially because I bought 2, and many spare parts. They would not lie to me about the battery pack.. Selling me crap for very expensive. Itvs a widely trusted scooter fabric, I consider them as my friends.

So the new bms for the new pack.. This one has some wires already, but looks also different again.
-Firstly I have 2 controllers and need wires for 2 controllers. And ik only see 1xB-. Kan I just solder an extra wire next to it on silver colored part?
-I use 2 x 5A charger at the same time, that is stock, connector ports made in the scooter. Can I solder another wire next to rhe C- for the second charger?
-1 of those 2 white connectors op the bms board, the big ehite connector, seems.. The.. Same.. Size.. As.. Old.. White connector... :) Just push it in? Haha I do not think possible, but you never know...
-that thin red and black wire, where are those for?
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Bas   10 W

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Re: BMS broken, damaged cells, or both?

Post by Bas » Sep 10 2019 10:22am

Best would be to find somebody in my country who can do this 150a bluetooth BMS install for me.. And check the other pack.. But I can't find anybody.. Yes, 1 guy who will do all for 250euro maybe.. I am considering it, but he lives also far far away..

Edit: Ps: They sent me a video on how to install.. Thecbig connector goes till 15s. So maybe I have to swap only 1 wire, becaus 16s?
Her english speaking is lovely.. :o
https://youtu.be/xIBlmvQWbXY

999zip999   100 GW

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Re: BMS broken, damaged cells, or both?

Post by 999zip999 » Sep 10 2019 11:27am

Maybe if you leave it on the charger it might pick up the low cell. That's way you should know state of charge.
1. 3.99v
2. 4.19
3. 4.20



16. Xxx volt
Knowledge is knowing carry on grasshopper.

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Re: BMS broken, damaged cells, or both?

Post by Joachim » Sep 10 2019 11:28am

als je de zelfde bms hebt als in je link met youtube filmpje is het super simpel om juist te monteren....begrijp je dit niet dan zou ik zelf niet de gok nemen om aan lithium accu,s werken.

die bms monteer ik je in 15 minutjes incl nieuwe krimpfolie.

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Re: BMS broken, damaged cells, or both?

Post by Bas » Sep 10 2019 12:30pm

Hoi Joachim,

Zit je toevallig in de buurt van Breda?

Greetings Bas

Bas   10 W

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Re: BMS broken, damaged cells, or both?

Post by Bas » Sep 10 2019 12:40pm

999zip999 wrote:
Sep 10 2019 11:27am
Maybe if you leave it on the charger it might pick up the low cell. That's way you should know state of charge.
1. 3.99v
2. 4.19
3. 4.20



16. Xxx volt
Knowledge is knowing carry on grasshopper.
Haha thank you, Zippy :) I think you mean with pins of voltmeter in the white connector.. I have done that before, but that almost went wrong.. I would like to try everything, except for direct contact with that battery.. Also now I repacked it a bit, not yet with blue foil though.
I want to take it for a short 5 minute spin again, and then see what it does.. If so, cells are damaged, and I will leave it alone..

I don't want to know that the older battery is seriously damaged, before I got the newer pack to work.. Haha I am like doggy who always needs at least 1 bone :)

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Re: BMS broken, damaged cells, or both?

Post by Bas » Sep 10 2019 6:03pm

So far, I am regaining trust in the halfcyear old 42Ah PowerPack. I fully charged it last night, not use it today, only 0.1 or, maybe 0.2v fallback since yesterday.. Today I took it for a spin for about 45min. Tried a bit how all new gear reacts. During my testride 14 headlights were burning(See pic), and I pushed the dual controllers and wheels. 45min drive, I came back with voltage 64.2v. No warm battery, no warm wheels. Seems to handle it easily. Especially with my 14 lights, lol.
Now back home, the bike is on the charger next to me, charging proces seems to go normally. No heat up at the pack at all. The only heat comes from the blowers of the chargers, but that is normal.
Maybe I was lucky for 1 time. That would be very justified to my opinion. My new hobby is starting to cost.. No problem to me, but my wife wants new shoes. Seriously, you tell me, what is more important? My bike or her shoes??
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999zip999   100 GW

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Re: BMS broken, damaged cells, or both?

Post by 999zip999 » Sep 10 2019 7:31pm

Your the Man you go out and buy some extra tall stilettos. She will stop asking you for new shoes again.
You can be a winner or wynner. Please take my advice. Haha. Lol

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Re: BMS broken, damaged cells, or both?

Post by Joachim » Sep 11 2019 2:46am

Bas wrote:
Sep 10 2019 12:30pm
Hoi Joachim,

Zit je toevallig in de buurt van Breda?

Greetings Bas
nee maar de dhl doet wonderen hoor :wink:

Bas   10 W

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Re: BMS broken, damaged cells, or both?

Post by Bas » Sep 12 2019 1:37pm

I started with the 150A Bluetooth BMS on my expensive 60v46Ah 16s13p Panasonic powerpack today.. I took all the time, to not make mistakes..
The BMs it turned out to have was a lot, bigger then we expected, also 150A,for such a small thing.. I enclosed a picture of it..

The wires in the existing connector did not fit the new connector, so I provised, I put all the new wires in the right position in the new connectors, cut of the old connector, and connect the wires 1 by 1 to the new wires, with shrinksock hahaha.. Nice word.. Literally translated..

I spend all day on it, connected it, I hear beep beep beep, and see the red lights blinking on the back of the Bms, but can't get it connected..

- I have 2 controllers and 2 chargers, so many wires. I connected 2x thick black+2x thin black, all to C-. I soldered a strong connection, it already came with 1 thick black wire on C-.
-I soldered to wire on C-: 2x thick black for 2 controllers. 2x thin black for 2 chargers.

-To B-, bms already came with thick wire to B-, to that cable I soldered 2 main black cables from the pack.
Foto 1: old 150A BMS
Foto 2: new 150A bluetooth BMS
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Bas   10 W

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Re: BMS broken, damaged cells, or both?

Post by Bas » Sep 12 2019 6:25pm

Ok, I did it, conquered my fear and cut her belly open. Panasonic batteries, very bad buy till now.

I Measured voltage at the connectors, 2 connectors, because 2 controllers, and they both gave 32v.. Should be 64v! Exactly half.. So I was thinking, and this nightly 'thinking' has cost me quite some money already, but I was thinking.. That is half.. What could cause that?
Parallel batteries is farrr driving... Batteries in series determine the voltage, am I right?
So could it be... Could it be 1 bad wire somewhere in the middle, that came loose, and therefore cut voltage in half?

Anyhow, during transport the battery got damaged, because they transported the scooter upside down. So this expensive battery arrived with 1 broken group of 13.(16s13p pack)

When you look at the foto, I am very sure you can see what group that would be.. ;)

What scares me a bit.. Please see foto.. He fixed the battery at my place, I did not see him using any glue... What is that shampoo colored stuff there in between the batteries? I do not think batteries have such a snotty contents.. If it does, and that snot comes from inside the batteries, I think I better burry the pack in the garden before I go to bed.. Please see the pics.. Please let me know if you see something strange..
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