Luna Charger dead after 10 uses.

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
cmacclel   10 mW

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Luna Charger dead after 10 uses.

Post by cmacclel » Apr 22 2020 1:28pm

I bought the Luna 72v Advanced charger 10 months ago. It was only used maybe 5 times before the winter came and sat for 5 months. I've used it twice this season and upon connecting it yesterday I heard a loud pop and the voltage on charger stated 0 volts. It appears the charger shorted out internally as the 15 amp fuse I wired into my charging leads also popped. It's a shame this charger was priced right and seemed to work well but to last only around 10 charges or around 25 hours of use is horrible. Luna did offer a $40 coupon for a replacement. I can only imagine what would of happened if I didn't incorporate and inline fuse to my charging leads :(

Dak77   100 W

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Re: Luna Charger dead after 10 uses.

Post by Dak77 » Apr 22 2020 4:02pm

That's one reason I always shake any high current / high voltage power supply or charger like a psycho before I plug them in. All it takes is one little piece of random loose conductive material to make short work of a hundred dollar bill (or 3) . Especially well ventilated units with big airy grills and vents . It was likely a poor solder connection somewhere , but you never know when something has fallen into an opening .

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: Luna Charger dead after 10 uses.

Post by john61ct » Apr 22 2020 4:46pm

Also, stress testing gear right when it's received, even using an old battery with light bulbs running, give it a few dozen cycles at least before the warranty / replacement window expires.

A good charger lasts many decades.

cmacclel   10 mW

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Re: Luna Charger dead after 10 uses.

Post by cmacclel » Apr 22 2020 4:53pm

john61ct wrote:
Apr 22 2020 4:46pm
Also, stress testing gear right when it's received, even using an old battery with light bulbs running, give it a few dozen cycles at least before the warranty / replacement window expires.

A good charger lasts many decades.
Well who knew a US based company offers no warranty on their own branded charger. I figured at minimum it would have been 1 year like everyone else. This was their reply when I asked about the charger warranty.

"From a strictly legal standpoint nothing on the Luna website is sold with a warranty unless expressly stated on that listing. There is just too much that can go wrong that would be outside of our control and unrelated to quality of the product (i.e. how it was used or abused) for us to take on that kind of legally binding obligation."
Last edited by cmacclel on Apr 22 2020 4:58pm, edited 1 time in total.

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: Luna Charger dead after 10 uses.

Post by john61ct » Apr 22 2020 4:58pm

Usually best to verify that before pulling the trigger.

Not to mention researching the vendor's reputation for customer service (or lack thereof) here

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3A ... na+service

Live and learn, be grateful you bought this valuable knowledge so cheaply

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Stealth_Chopper   10 W

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Re: Luna Charger dead after 10 uses.

Post by Stealth_Chopper » Apr 22 2020 9:17pm

:bolt:
Cheapness
Last edited by Stealth_Chopper on Apr 23 2020 6:59pm, edited 2 times in total.

cmacclel   10 mW

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Re: Luna Charger dead after 10 uses.

Post by cmacclel » Apr 22 2020 9:25pm

Stealth_Chopper wrote:
Apr 22 2020 9:17pm
Imagine
what?
A shorted high tension power line surge sending a jillion volts through ALL ' your stuff ' ?
__It Happens every day and 1,000 times a month.
Blow a fuse Mister $1/2$ off scoff
10 - 4
First off you sound like you're *special*. I highly doubt the masses that build E-Bikes install inline fuses onto their charge wires. So if I didn't happen to install one it could have fried the wire leads going into my battery or even shorted my 200 cell battery pack. So for most people if this happened it wouldn't have been a $1 fuse.

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amberwolf   100 GW

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Re: Luna Charger dead after 10 uses.

Post by amberwolf » Apr 23 2020 5:06am

FWIW, when things go "bang" or "pop" inside power supplies, it usually means a capacitor failed. Those usually fail dramatically from being isntalled backwards, though that typically happens immediately, it doesn't always.

It can also just be a defective capacitor, or a counterfeit one, both of which are fairly common in the supply chain of assorted chinese factories where all this stuff is made.

Either way, if you open up the charger, and attach good clear well-lit pictures of the insides especially the end with the AC cord, we might be able to help you determine what failed so you can fix it. (if you attach the pics directly to the post with the Attachements tab, Upload button, then anyone that can see the post can see the pics).
cmacclel wrote:
Apr 22 2020 4:53pm
"From a strictly legal standpoint nothing on the Luna website is sold with a warranty unless expressly stated on that listing. There is just too much that can go wrong that would be outside of our control and unrelated to quality of the product (i.e. how it was used or abused) for us to take on that kind of legally binding obligation."
That sounds like Luna. :/

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Luna Charger dead after 10 uses.

Post by dogman dan » Apr 23 2020 6:44am

It is how you keep those prices down. I remember starting out on this, I had a good kingpan type charger from Pingbattery, that ultimately lasted about 8 years. But cheap chargers I bought to carry around, or keep at work for the daytime charge kept blowing one after another. They'd last a month, or 4, then die. After about 4 of them, I finally got one that lasted longer.

Cheap is cheap, you get what you get.

cmacclel   10 mW

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Re: Luna Charger dead after 10 uses.

Post by cmacclel » Apr 23 2020 8:09am

amberwolf wrote:
Apr 23 2020 5:06am
FWIW, when things go "bang" or "pop" inside power supplies, it usually means a capacitor failed. Those usually fail dramatically from being isntalled backwards, though that typically happens immediately, it doesn't always.

It can also just be a defective capacitor, or a counterfeit one, both of which are fairly common in the supply chain of assorted chinese factories where all this stuff is made.

Either way, if you open up the charger, and attach good clear well-lit pictures of the insides especially the end with the AC cord, we might be able to help you determine what failed so you can fix it. (if you attach the pics directly to the post with the Attachements tab, Upload button, then anyone that can see the post can see the pics).
cmacclel wrote:
Apr 22 2020 4:53pm
"From a strictly legal standpoint nothing on the Luna website is sold with a warranty unless expressly stated on that listing. There is just too much that can go wrong that would be outside of our control and unrelated to quality of the product (i.e. how it was used or abused) for us to take on that kind of legally binding obligation."
That sounds like Luna. :/
I worked for 15 year in the robotic semi conductor field and have done my share of PCB repairs. I opened the charger up and nothing looked out of the ordinary. I may give it a closer look later today. I have a Xantrex 100v 10amp variable power supply I will just use from now on. I'll post some pictures shortly. Thanks

obcd   100 W

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Re: Luna Charger dead after 10 uses.

Post by obcd » Apr 23 2020 8:18am

If the 15A fuse burned it's indeed likely the charger output got shorted and the battery voltage burned the fuse.
I assume you can measure battery voltage on the charge port?
I don't get why they don't prevent this as usually charge current isn't that high and all you need is a diode.

cmacclel   10 mW

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Re: Luna Charger dead after 10 uses.

Post by cmacclel » Apr 23 2020 10:32am

Here are pictures of the charger as you can it's looks brand spanking new :) Let me know if you guys can see these please.

https://public.fotki.com/cmacclel/luna-charger/

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BVH   1 kW

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Re: Luna Charger dead after 10 uses.

Post by BVH » Apr 23 2020 10:51am

Hi Mac. Long time, no see over at CPF. I still have my Green body'd, Quad Cyan that I got from you years ago and it's still the best looking light I have.

cmacclel   10 mW

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Re: Luna Charger dead after 10 uses.

Post by cmacclel » Apr 23 2020 10:53am

BVH wrote:
Apr 23 2020 10:51am
Hi Mac. Long time, no see over at CPF. I still have my Green body'd, Quad Cyan that I got from you years ago and it's still the best looking light I have.
Hey the good ole days :) I hope you're doing well.

kcuf   100 W

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Re: Luna Charger dead after 10 uses.

Post by kcuf » Apr 23 2020 6:12pm

over many years

6qty 300w chargers from many sources

currently no working alloy chargers

ironically several cheap kit plastics still working

instead 300w alloy better off meanwell cv cc led supply

or pay up for satiator
In 2013 an ad appears on Russia social networks: Интернет-операторы хотели! Работа в шикарном офисе в Ольгино !!!, зарплата 25960 рублей в месяц

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amberwolf   100 GW

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Re: Luna Charger dead after 10 uses.

Post by amberwolf » Apr 23 2020 6:35pm

"Pop" and "bang" sounds inside power supplies are generally either capacitor or power transistor/diode failures, and are usually quite dramatic and obvious...but not always.

Also, sometimes it can just be the sound of a fuse blowing as the plasma arc extinguishes, but there's still always a cause for the fuse to blow....

Regarding the pics:

The two input-side caps both appear to have mechanical defects, though they might not be electrically damaged.

The one closer to the end appears to have part of it's plastic wrap at the top end separating as a ring. This could indicate failure of the cap and an attempt to vent. Check under it's black plastic "lid" for the status of it's top vent (if it has one; if not then you'd have to desolder it and check the rubber vent at the bottom for separation).

The one farther from the end appears to be mashed down a bit on the top on one edge, but this could be an illusion from the camera. I'd still remove the top plastic cover to verify.


The largest output cap, between the shunt and the power resistor and large ring inductor, appears to be slightly swollen but it hasn't vented at the top. I can't see it's base clearly, but it could have vented at the rubber cap at the base.


I can't clearly see the power transistors and diodes, but sometiems when they fail dramatically with sound, their casing is separated from the backing as the die vaporizes, sometimes leaving a soot mark all over making it obvious, and sometimes not. But it's still usually easy enough to see if you can see where they meet the heatsinks.

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Stealth_Chopper   10 W

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Re: Luna Charger dead after 10 uses.

Post by Stealth_Chopper » Apr 23 2020 7:15pm

:bolt: Never use 'em? or
don't know not-in 'bout no electrical surge toward infinite alternating voltages

Cure. $2.02 surge protector
_fuse

cmacclel   10 mW

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Re: Luna Charger dead after 10 uses.

Post by cmacclel » Apr 23 2020 7:18pm

kcuf wrote:
Apr 23 2020 6:12pm
over many years

6qty 300w chargers from many sources

currently no working alloy chargers

ironically several cheap kit plastics still working

instead 300w alloy better off meanwell cv cc led supply

or pay up for satiator
I have a Xantrex 100v 10amp Variable power supply I'll just use from now on. I used to drive my bike to my store daily so the small Luna charger was perfect as I left it there.

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: Luna Charger dead after 10 uses.

Post by john61ct » Apr 23 2020 9:56pm

Beware if that PSU does not terminate charging automatically.

Can set a HVC to protect the pack in case you forget.

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: Luna Charger dead after 10 uses.

Post by tomjasz » Apr 25 2020 9:22pm

Luna chargers smoke and mirrors. They work, and when they don’t it’s tough Sh/t.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

electric_nz   100 W

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Re: Luna Charger dead after 10 uses.

Post by electric_nz » Apr 27 2020 9:16pm

I have the 52V version and have used without issue for hundreds of charge cycles. Might just be bad luck?

Happy to open mine up if you need anything compared.

markz   100 GW

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Re: Luna Charger dead after 10 uses.

Post by markz » Apr 27 2020 9:56pm

You do know that Luna just rebadges their controllers from off the shelf products. They might even put on a fancy voltage display from an existing product. Either way you need to contact Luna Cycle and see what kind of return/refund/exchange policy they have.

cmacclel   10 mW

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Re: Luna Charger dead after 10 uses.

Post by cmacclel » Apr 27 2020 9:58pm

markz wrote:
Apr 27 2020 9:56pm
You do know that Luna just rebadges their controllers from off the shelf products. They might even put on a fancy voltage display from an existing product. Either way you need to contact Luna Cycle and see what kind of return/refund/exchange policy they have.
Post 1 and post 4 both state what Luna said about the warranty.

markz   100 GW

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Re: Luna Charger dead after 10 uses.

Post by markz » Apr 27 2020 9:59pm

cmacclel wrote:
Apr 27 2020 9:58pm
markz wrote:
Apr 27 2020 9:56pm
You do know that Luna just rebadges their controllers from off the shelf products. They might even put on a fancy voltage display from an existing product. Either way you need to contact Luna Cycle and see what kind of return/refund/exchange policy they have.
Post 1 and post 4 both state what Luna said about the warranty.
Reiteration doesn't hurt.

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: Luna Charger dead after 10 uses.

Post by john61ct » Apr 28 2020 2:37am

Relabelers can - and often do - swap out the OEM supplier over months and years, completely different products underneath.

Same with battery brands, unless the company actually makes the chemical slurry and rolls their own cells, their is no assurance of consistent quality.

Even if you trust the company to be around and honor the world's longest and tightest NQAMB guarantee

to me that is no substitute for a well-respected brand with a top-notch reputation over many years' reports by expert members.

Worth paying double, triple or more, and disregard any warranty BS, just don't even take that aspect into account.

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