Something I Don't Get With How a Pulse Welder Works...

rg12

100 kW
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Jul 26, 2014
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My pulse welder has two super thin wires going from the pcb into the gigantic transformer while it's output cables are as thick as starter cables for a ship motor.

The output I get, it needs to carry a ton of current for a brief moment but how can the input be so thin?
How can so much current travel from the grid into the transformer with such thin wires? I'm talking single strand as thin as a motor winding wire.
 
amberwolf said:
It doesn't. If you look up how transformers work, you'll see how this works.

I just read about it and it seems that it converts to either highers or lower voltage and current but the power in the primary and secondary is always the same only the voltage and current ratios are changing but the watts are equal.
So, if I end up with 3kw from the secondary thick wires, how can that power cross into the transformer with such hair thin wires to the primary?
 
The input is typically 120V AC, and most home outlets have a 15A breaker, which limits common appliances (like a microwave oven) to 1600W. A transformer will "transform" the input watts to a magnetic field, and the steel lamination stack around the primary coil will pull-in and focus the magnetic field.

The only connection between the primary coil and the secondary coil is the pulsing AC magnetic field. And they both are located in the center of this field... This magnetic field induces an AC current in the secondary coil (with perhaps a 10% loss of watts due to energy conversion into waste-heat).

It is possible to weld certain things with the AC output, but a simple 4-diode "bridge rectifier" can convert the output into a DC pulse. So...now we come to the output coil. With all DIY transformer welders, the 2,000-strand secondary (using very thin wires) is removed and replaced with a low-turn-count coil using fat wires.

Since it is the heat of high amps that perform the welding, most builders focus on using fat output wires. There is a certain amount of space in the "window" of the transformer. Each turn is approximately one volt. The fattest welding cable is sometimes used to provide 2 turns, which is approximately 2-volts dividing the total watts of the magnetic field. Transformers come in many sizes, with 1500W being a common large size, and 1,000W being average (for a free trashed microwave).

Let's say the microwave is 1,000W input, with a possible output max of 900W if you squeeze-in the fattest possible wires. 12 turns would be 12V at 75A (= 900W). If you use 2 turns you can get as much as 450A, which would require a very fat cable to be squeezed into the window.

The max amps would be a rectangular cross-section of copper bar bent into a "U" so it would be a "one turn" output at 900A. So we can see how this explains the wire sizes. 1,000W transformer is 120V / 83A input, and the output would usually be 900W, 2V / 450A.
 
spinningmagnets said:
The input is typically 120V AC, and most home outlets have a 15A breaker, which limits common appliances (like a microwave oven) to 1600W. A transformer will "transform" the input watts to a magnetic field, and the steel lamination stack around the primary coil will pull-in and focus the magnetic field.

The only connection between the primary coil and the secondary coil is the pulsing AC magnetic field. And they both are located in the center of this field... This magnetic field induces an AC current in the secondary coil (with perhaps a 10% loss of watts due to energy conversion into waste-heat).

It is possible to weld certain things with the AC output, but a simple 4-diode "bridge rectifier" can convert the output into a DC pulse. So...now we come to the output coil. With all DIY transformer welders, the 2,000-strand secondary (using very thin wires) is removed and replaced with a low-turn-count coil using fat wires.

Since it is the heat of high amps that perform the welding, most builders focus on using fat output wires. There is a certain amount of space in the "window" of the transformer. Each turn is approximately one volt. The fattest welding cable is sometimes used to provide 2 turns, which is approximately 2-volts dividing the total watts of the magnetic field. Transformers come in many sizes, with 1500W being a common large size, and 1,000W being average (for a free trashed microwave).

Let's say the microwave is 1,000W input, with a possible output max of 900W if you squeeze-in the fattest possible wires. 12 turns would be 12V at 75A (= 900W). If you use 2 turns you can get as much as 450A, which would require a very fat cable to be squeezed into the window.

The max amps would be a rectangular cross-section of copper bar bent into a "U" so it would be a "one turn" output at 900A. So we can see how this explains the wire sizes. 1,000W transformer is 120V / 83A input, and the output would usually be 900W, 2V / 450A.

That I get but the 1000W needs to go into the primary somehow and in my transformer it's with a hair thin pair of wires which is something I don't get.
 
Power equals volts times amps.


Overhead powerlines carry megawatts, but they're no thicker than maybe your arm, and usually not even that.
 
The input amps are very low, so thin wires on the input. The output amps on the welder are high, so the output needs thick wires.

The extra amps dont come out of thin air, the voltage is transformed from the input 120V down to 2V on the output. You are trading volts away to get amps.
 
spinningmagnets said:
The input amps are very low, so thin wires on the input. The output amps on the welder are high, so the output needs thick wires.

The extra amps dont come out of thin air, the voltage is transformed from the input 120V down to 2V on the output. You are trading volts away to get amps.

Again, that I get but the power cable of the machine has much thicker wires than the hair thin wires inside the machine that go into the transformer.
Let's say you need 10-15A (I tripped the 16A breaker many times with it) with my 220V grid, that's acceptable for the thick AC wire going into the socket but not for the super thin wires going into the transformer.
 
Here are the stock wires on a north American transformer. The 120V / 15A wires are on the left, and the 2,000V - 1/2A wires are on the right.

MOT23.jpg


Below is a similar transformer. The high-voltage output wires have been removed, and two turns of welding cable are put in their place.

MOT33-1.png
 
rg12 said:
Again, that I get but

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductor

https://www.amazon.com/Electric-Motor-Repair-Robert-Rosenberg/dp/0030595843
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007E6MHE/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_taft_p1_i3

Read that book if you want to know more about induction winding. Very well known book, my copy is going to live on my shelf in my library until I die. One of the many required readings for anyone into electronics.. for some time.
"A hands-on approach to the repair and control of AC & DC motors. This edition features a new chapter on solid state control and updated technology on microprocessor controls." Electric Motor Repair -1946- Robert Rosenburg

Wiki blurb about induction formula.

See also Faraday Law of Induction:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday's_law_of_induction

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_electromagnetism

So inductance is also a measure of the amount of electromotive force (voltage) generated for a given rate of change of current. For example, an inductor with an inductance of 1 henry produces an EMF of 1 volt when the current through the inductor changes at the rate of 1 ampere per second. This is usually taken to be the constitutive relation (defining equation) of the inductor.

The dual of the inductor is the capacitor, which stores energy in an electric field rather than a magnetic field. Its current–voltage relation is obtained by exchanging current and voltage in the inductor equations and replacing L with the capacitance C.



Inductors resist change.



It ( a transformer) is not a resistor. It does not take current. It makes current based on the time-waveform of the primary exciting the secondary. It does not need finger thick wires to alternate the current flow through the zero crossing. It just need to "induce" (flow) a small current ( "multiplied" ).

"When the current flowing through an inductor changes, the time-varying magnetic field induces an electromotive force (e.m.f.) (voltage) in the conductor,"...
 

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Also it's only operating for milliseconds per few seconds. If the primary needed 5amps, even very thin wire could sustain that at 1-2%duty cycle.
 
kdog said:
Also it's only operating for milliseconds per few seconds. If the primary needed 5amps, even very thin wire could sustain that at 1-2%duty cycle.

The answer I was looking for :thumb:
 
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