Sony US26650VT source!

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
dscline   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 43
Joined: May 18 2009 9:29am
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Re: Sony US26650VT source!

Post by dscline » Jun 11 2009 11:47am

Old_Scoot wrote:Looks like the guy has taken the auction down. Hopefully it comes back soon.
Interesting. I'm pretty sure there were something like 800 left when I ordered mine two nights ago. If there were 1300 a week ago, the last half of them must have gone pretty quickly. I somewhat wish I had ordered enough to do 8P instead of 6P for more range/lower discharge, but I was wanting to keep cost/bulk/weight as low as possible. Should be more than enough for my small commute. :)

Old_Scoot   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 45
Joined: May 12 2009 1:13pm

Re: Sony US26650VT source!

Post by Old_Scoot » Jun 11 2009 12:58pm

It shows that there were 560 left at the time the auction was ended. I bet the come back. Probably with a higher price. ;)

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0312020223

pwbset   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1583
Joined: Apr 23 2008 8:29pm
Location: Montana

Re: Sony US26650VT source!

Post by pwbset » Jun 11 2009 1:52pm

Old_Scoot wrote:It shows that there were 560 left at the time the auction was ended. I bet the come back. Probably with a higher price. ;)
Awhile ago I told him that I shared his auction with everyone here and he replied that he was selling them faster than he could test and ship them... haha... no doubt at some point he was probably like, "damn.. shoulda charged double". :wink: He also said he wanted some of those 1,300 for his own projects though.

What I want to know is where he got 1,300 of them... that's a LOT of toolpacks.

@dscline - if you could even get your hands on one of the IQv packs (like a reject or something) and open it up to confirm this it would be great... I suspect you're not the only one that didn't know IR had a cordless tool pack line or we would have known about this 26650 source long ago as it seems people on this forum have torn open packs from most brands at this point. :mrgreen:

heathyoung   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1545
Joined: May 27 2009 2:01am
Location: Newcastle, Australia

Re: Sony US26650VT source!

Post by heathyoung » Jun 11 2009 8:46pm

I contacted him before the auction closed, he is on holidays for 3 weeks or something.

Old_Scoot   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 45
Joined: May 12 2009 1:13pm

Re: Sony US26650VT source!

Post by Old_Scoot » Jun 12 2009 10:08am

He told me that he thought he had a buyer for the balance of the cells but if the deal fell through he would relist them.

dscline   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 43
Joined: May 18 2009 9:29am
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Re: Sony US26650VT source!

Post by dscline » Jun 14 2009 2:25pm

Ok, my batteries have arrived, but now I have a question about charging them:
John in CR wrote:I definitely wouldn't go further than doing some capacity matching of the cells before assembly, and using a balancing charger (rc lipo chargers come to mind).
That is exactly what I intended to do, and have a 208b on order. But along with the batteries came a typed up sheet that suggests to charge them all in parallel to a full 4.1v, and then they can be connected in series and should stay in balance after that. It goes on to say:
If they do not stay in balance do not balance charge them as you would a Li-po battery. Instead, only balance the pack when it is fully charged. Li-Mn cells do not like the rapid charge-discharge-charge-discharge cycles that a normal balancer issues during one complete charge.
I wasn't aware that a balancing charger alternated discharge cycles within the charge cycle. I thought it simply limited charging to individual cells when they reached a limit, so other cells could "catch up". In reading the instructions for the 208b, I can't find any reference to charge-discharge cycles within a balance charge. What it does say is:
In all kinds of charge cycle, if the balance lead is connected and if any cell exceeds the allowable per-cell
peak voltage for the configured chemistry, the charge current will be reduced to ensure the voltage does
not rise any further. This will slow the charging process and if the charge current falls to 1/10 of the
charge current setting this will result in the charge cycle stopping altogether.
So is using the balance mode in the 208b good for these cells? Bad? It doesn't have a specific Li-Mn mode, but it does have a Li-lo mode (I don't even know that Li-lo is) that has a 4.1v charge level, and it seems like the relevant parameters are configurable.

John in CR   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 14399
Joined: May 20 2008 12:58am
Location: Paradise

Re: Sony US26650VT source!

Post by John in CR » Jun 15 2009 12:11pm

Interesting. It seems they are supposed to stay well balanced, which is good news. I've never used a balancing charger on my konions, just manually balanced them, which isn't a big deal being so seldom. I don't like the suggestion to charge them in parallel though, since that means they are out of their factory tabs. Making packs using already grouped sub-packs is SOOO much easier.

John

User avatar
liveforphysics   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 14134
Joined: Oct 29 2008 1:48am
Location: Santa Cruz, CA, USA

Re: Sony US26650VT source!

Post by liveforphysics » Jun 15 2009 12:24pm

You can set the 20B to balance continously.

You can also set it to cycle your pack, charging and discharging the pack, and continously keeping all cells in balance as it does it.

Or, if you want some info on how your cells are balanced, you can set it to not balance, and have it record all cell voltages as it's charging, then through the USB port, you can view the graphs of the voltage behavior of every cell under charge and discharge. It also records capacity, but only for the whole pack, not single cells in a pack, but it will measure single cell capacity if you connect the main leads to just a single cell.

Best Wishes,
-Luke
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

dscline   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 43
Joined: May 18 2009 9:29am
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Re: Sony US26650VT source!

Post by dscline » Jun 15 2009 12:45pm

liveforphysics wrote:You can set the 20B to balance continously.

You can also set it to cycle your pack, charging and discharging the pack, and continuously keeping all cells in balance as it does it.
Thanks guys. I did see an option in the manual for a "balance charge", as well as an option for a cycle (either charge then discharge, or vice-versa). I'm assuming the simple "balance charge" doesn't do the rapid charge/discharge that the recommendations that came with the batteries suggested against? And I'm assuming the charge/discharge cycle is what I'd want to do to see the capacity of each cell, and that's the important variable for matching them? Doing that for 100 cells is going to be a bit time consuming. :shock: I think the charger is due to be delivered today or tomorrow. Guess I shouldn't waste any time once it gets here.

User avatar
liveforphysics   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 14134
Joined: Oct 29 2008 1:48am
Location: Santa Cruz, CA, USA

Re: Sony US26650VT source!

Post by liveforphysics » Jun 15 2009 1:03pm

It has a special setup menu in it. You set where you want the LVC and HVC, and what rate you wish to charge and discharge, and how many cycles you want it to do. Then you can set it to either balance continously, or start balancing only when the first cell reaches HVC. I personally like it to balance continously. Everything can be dialed-in just how you want it to be :)
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

fairlyfaded   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 11
Joined: Jun 20 2009 1:52am

Re: Sony US26650VT source!

Post by fairlyfaded » Jun 20 2009 1:58am

Hello folks! This is Vvasarely, the battery seller.

To confirm a few facts,

I am currently in Austria and thus unable to test, ship, or sell cells.

I have also recieved an inquiry from a German fellow who is willing to purchase all of the remaining cells at $3 per cell (looks like I should have started with a much higher price doesnt it! Ah well).

As of now, that is how I am going to proceed, as stated prior, if the deal falls through, I will relist.

Thanks for the interest.

Michael\Vvasarelz

pwbset   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1583
Joined: Apr 23 2008 8:29pm
Location: Montana

Re: Sony US26650VT source!

Post by pwbset » Jun 22 2009 7:27pm

Thanks for checking in Michael! Do let us know if you get others or know of other sources around the world. Having just finished a sony 18650 build of course now I want to build a new pack with 26650s! :mrgreen:

kZs0lt   100 W

100 W
Posts: 149
Joined: Dec 05 2008 9:33am
Location: Cluj Napoca, Romania

Re: Sony US26650VT source!

Post by kZs0lt » Jul 15 2009 5:16am

Folks,

Does anybody know any contact info from Michael(vvasarely) beside Ebay. I left him messages on ebay, and no response since jun 25. I bought 18pcs for testing and we agreed that I'll get some 20 more. He told me, he reserved them for me, but no response since. He might have forgot to check his ebay since he is not selling anything now.
I am desperate, as my project is broken half, the ones I have are only good for 5 mile, and double is the least I need for my commute.
By the way, the batteries are holding fine, have already 18 cycles on them, of which 12 were 100% DOD or very close to it.

Thanks for any help getting in contact with him,
Zsolt
BMC v1 250w (nylon geared)
12 FET programmable Infineon controller with 4110s (running on 20A)
18s2p Konion 26650s (66v, 4.4Ah)
Max. speed 54km/h(34mph) no assist on flat

pwbset   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1583
Joined: Apr 23 2008 8:29pm
Location: Montana

Re: Sony US26650VT source!

Post by pwbset » Jul 15 2009 9:56pm

Have you tried sending him a private message here? fairlyfaded is his username... see post a couple above these.. that may alert him via the email he signed up for... let us know... I'm going to want some of these for next summer I know it! :mrgreen:

kZs0lt   100 W

100 W
Posts: 149
Joined: Dec 05 2008 9:33am
Location: Cluj Napoca, Romania

Re: Sony US26650VT source!

Post by kZs0lt » Jul 16 2009 7:21am

Thanks for your suggestion.
I got in contact with him.
BMC v1 250w (nylon geared)
12 FET programmable Infineon controller with 4110s (running on 20A)
18s2p Konion 26650s (66v, 4.4Ah)
Max. speed 54km/h(34mph) no assist on flat

pwbset   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1583
Joined: Apr 23 2008 8:29pm
Location: Montana

Re: Sony US26650VT source!

Post by pwbset » Jul 16 2009 5:29pm

kZs0lt wrote:I got in contact with him.
And what did he say? :wink: Does he have a lot more?

kZs0lt   100 W

100 W
Posts: 149
Joined: Dec 05 2008 9:33am
Location: Cluj Napoca, Romania

Re: Sony US26650VT source!

Post by kZs0lt » Jul 17 2009 6:28am

pwbset wrote:And what did he say? :wink: Does he have a lot more?
I don't know. He said that he had reserved a couple for me, because I have stated in advance that I needed some 20 more, when I have bought the other 18pcs. I think he is still testing the remaining cells for the german fellow.
BMC v1 250w (nylon geared)
12 FET programmable Infineon controller with 4110s (running on 20A)
18s2p Konion 26650s (66v, 4.4Ah)
Max. speed 54km/h(34mph) no assist on flat

dragonfire   100 W

100 W
Posts: 112
Joined: Apr 14 2009 1:30pm

Re: Sony US26650VT source!

Post by dragonfire » Jul 21 2009 6:55pm

being another german guy i´d also have interrest. private interrest would be 16 cells to test and another 16 if they behave nice, if you only do bundle deals 3 dollars/ new cell seems feasable to me, too, as local ebay still leaves a 50%+ margin compared to used dewalt-pack cells.
lmk.

RoughRider   100 W

100 W
Posts: 208
Joined: May 17 2009 1:06pm

Re: Sony US26650VT source!

Post by RoughRider » Jul 22 2009 1:04am

this are not new cells...they are out of used power tool packs...

pwbset   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1583
Joined: Apr 23 2008 8:29pm
Location: Montana

Re: Sony US26650VT source!

Post by pwbset » Jul 22 2009 1:30pm

RoughRider wrote:this are not new cells...they are out of used power tool packs...
Which is still unconfirmed here really... until I see an Ingersoll Rand IQv pack disassembled I'll always wonder... their marketing their pack at 19.2v, which doesn't divide well for LiMn... what would that be 5s @ 3.84v?? But at 6s.. if it is 6s... is 3.2v... more like LFP nominal. But then the small print on their charger says 29.4v DC output, which is bang on 4.2v/cell @ 7s so must be LiMn right? Who the heck knows. If I had the extra couple hundred I'd buy one and a charger (with the sweet software!) and confirm, but I don't. Even if there are 7 cells per pack @ $130 ebay that's ridiculously expensive compared to the $45 Bosch packs, which are proven to work really well for ebike high power demands.

User avatar
onemintyulep   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 25
Joined: Jun 09 2009 3:32pm
Contact:

Re: Sony US26650VT source!

Post by onemintyulep » Jul 22 2009 3:08pm

I don't know where they are from but they really are from some disassembled pack, and still work really well. For me this was a 24V/10Ah pack for 80€ :))
I would not count on any random Ingersoll-Rand pack containing these cells. There seems not to be any reliable source for US26650VT anymore, anywhere, so better fantasize about the small cells from Bosch packs...

User avatar
spinningmagnets   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11675
Joined: Dec 21 2007 10:27pm
Location: Ft Riley, NE Kansas

Re: Sony US26650VT source!

Post by spinningmagnets » Aug 26 2013 11:16pm

Did a search, not much info on the Sony 26650 VT (26mm diameter, 65mm long, cylindrical, 2600-mAh). There have been recent reports of many of these cells coming onto the market at affordable prices, and this seems to be the longest thread on them. Below is a link that suggests they are NCM (Lithium, Nickle Cobalt Manganese), and they have a 50A peak capability. Are they NCM?

http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/top ... msg1000608
Sony29VT.png

User avatar
spinningmagnets   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11675
Joined: Dec 21 2007 10:27pm
Location: Ft Riley, NE Kansas

Re: Sony US26650VT source!

Post by spinningmagnets » Aug 27 2013 11:13am

ebay seller "sz_ohmygod" has these for $660 + $15 shipping from China, so...roughly $6.75 per cell if you buy 100. The 50A rating per series group is outrageous.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Cheap-100 ... 2ec97c4c1a

Is there a link for April? I heard April had large lots of new close-outs at less than $4/cell, and the other benefit was the ability to order less than 100...

12 of these would be 12S / 1p for 44V / 2.6-Ah...5S would be 13-Ah, equaling 572-WH (44V X 13-Ah). At an average WH/Mi of 15-20 a 13-Ah pack should provide between 28 to 38 miles

At: 12S = 44V

3P = _7.8-Ah = 343-WH = 17-22 miles
4P = 10.4-Ah = 457-WH = 22-31
5P = 13.0-Ah = 572-WH = 28-38
6P = 15.6-Ah = 686-WH = 34-45
7P = 18.2-Ah = 800-WH = 40-53

3P / _7.8-Ah = 36 cells
4P / 10.4-Ah = 48
5P / 13.0-Ah = 60
6P / 15.6-Ah = 72
7P / 18.2-Ah = 84

so, if I bought 100 cells, I could make
two 10-Ah packs (four cells left over),
one 20-Ah pack (four cells left over),
one 13-Ah and one 7.8-Ah (four cells left over)

If I bought 200 cells I could make
two 13.0-Ah packs plus one 15.6-Ah pack (8 cells left over)
Last edited by spinningmagnets on Aug 27 2013 12:02pm, edited 2 times in total.

999zip999   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 9526
Joined: Jan 10 2010 1:40pm
Location: Dana Point So. Cal

Re: Sony US26650VT source!

Post by 999zip999 » Aug 27 2013 11:31am

I like that they will spot weld up the parrelle's for you. 100pcs. at 660.00 that's a 24s 10ah pack ? Or is my math off ?

User avatar
spinningmagnets   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11675
Joined: Dec 21 2007 10:27pm
Location: Ft Riley, NE Kansas

Re: Sony US26650VT source!

Post by spinningmagnets » Aug 27 2013 12:11pm

24S X 4P = 96 cells, sounds right.

Roughly 86V-98V (3.6V per cell to 4.1V per cell)

I don't know if the 50A per parallel group is an exaggeration, but if it's true...a 3P / 7.8-Ah group (36 cells) would be so small it would fit just about any DH frame triangle, and it could still put out 150A peak.

Post Reply