Difference in range

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Hickbeard   100 W

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Difference in range

Post by Hickbeard » Sep 13 2020 2:38pm

Running a leafmotor.

Would a 14s8p give me more range than a 13s8p? On a like for like basis. Although it is a higher capacity, it'll draw more won't it?

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pwd   1 kW

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Re: Difference in range

Post by pwd » Sep 13 2020 3:33pm

It depends on a few things othings things like what kv the motor is and how much current you are feeding it. The 5T leafmotor can be found on the Grin motor simulator to give you a good comparison:

https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.h ... cont_b=C35

You can adjust the parameters to suit your needs
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Balmorhea   1 MW

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Re: Difference in range

Post by Balmorhea » Sep 13 2020 3:48pm

Hickbeard wrote:
Sep 13 2020 2:38pm
Running a leafmotor.

Would a 14s8p give me more range than a 13s8p? On a like for like basis. Although it is a higher capacity, it'll draw more won't it?
The way it works for most people is raising voltage results in moving faster, and you get the same average range per Ah but less range per Wh.

If it changes your riding habits somehow, then your range could change either way as a result of that. Likewise, if you change controller settings to offset the extra power, that could affect your practical range too.
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Hickbeard   100 W

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Re: Difference in range

Post by Hickbeard » Sep 13 2020 3:54pm

pwd wrote:It depends on a few things othings things like what kv the motor is and how much current you are feeding it. The 5T leafmotor can be found on the Grin motor simulator to give you a good comparison:

https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.h ... cont_b=C35

You can adjust the parameters to suit your needs
That is brilliant. Thanks very much.

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Hickbeard   100 W

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Re: Difference in range

Post by Hickbeard » Sep 13 2020 3:54pm

Balmorhea wrote:
Hickbeard wrote:
Sep 13 2020 2:38pm
Running a leafmotor.

Would a 14s8p give me more range than a 13s8p? On a like for like basis. Although it is a higher capacity, it'll draw more won't it?
The way it works for most people is raising voltage results in moving faster, and you get the same average range per Ah but less range per Wh.

If it changes your riding habits somehow, then your range could change either way as a result of that. Likewise, if you change controller settings to offset the extra power, that could affect your practical range too.
OK cool.

More voltage more speed. More ah more miles. Generally speaking.

Thanks dude

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Hickbeard   100 W

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Re: Difference in range

Post by Hickbeard » Sep 13 2020 3:58pm

I really like the thrust line.

So I'd need 22lbs of thrust to get up a 10% incline.

Really interesting. Thanks again.

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John in CR   100 GW

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Re: Difference in range

Post by John in CR » Sep 13 2020 5:01pm

7.7% more range with the 14s riding at the same speed. You'd get a bit better performance getting up to the same speed because the higher voltage would widen the torque curve, so even if you cruise at the same speed you would use up some of the extra capacity with higher average speed and more fun. Why stop at 14s though? Go to 20s and get significantly better acceleration in the mid and upper range of your speed, and you can have a bit of headroom for safer passing and maintaining your flat terrain cruising speed to going up hills and strong headwinds. Add a slightly smaller wheel to the mix as well and get better overall efficiency, better climbing, a cooler motor, less battery stress, and better performance by every measure except ride quality on bumpy terrain.

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ZeroEm   100 kW

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Re: Difference in range

Post by ZeroEm » Sep 13 2020 9:50pm

I have a 20S7P not even an 8P and get plenty of range.
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kdog   10 kW

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Re: Difference in range

Post by kdog » Sep 13 2020 10:11pm

More voltage= more Whrs not more Ah. Probly just a typo... Also, the motor won't 'draw more' just because the battery V is higher. The motor draws the power it needs based on torque and rpm required by you at any particular point.
The controller sends the required voltage (always </= to battery V to overcome bemf) and amps (to generate torque) to the motor based on your throttle position.
The motor hardly ever sees battery voltage, this is only at full (basically unloaded) rpm and wot. The winding resistance of a motor is usually rated in milliohms so it hardly needs any voltage until bemf rises with rpm.
This conversion of V and A (Power) in the controller is why increasing battery voltage increases range just the same as increasing battery AH

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: Difference in range

Post by john61ct » Sep 13 2020 10:33pm

It is a very rare rider that would not take advantage of higher top speed.

Which would significantly reduce range achieved from the same Wh available.

kdog   10 kW

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Re: Difference in range

Post by kdog » Sep 13 2020 11:17pm

Very true! but all things equal is my presumption, otherwise it's hard to compare anything.

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: Difference in range

Post by john61ct » Sep 13 2020 11:30pm

"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there is."

Reality is IMO a better guide, once you understand the theory.

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: Difference in range

Post by John in CR » Sep 14 2020 2:52am

john61ct wrote:
Sep 13 2020 11:30pm
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there is."

Reality is IMO a better guide, once you understand the theory.
When the reality is that the vast majority of ebikes have such pitiful performance that they're ridden around at WOT like mobility devices and rental golf carts. Such a low level of performance isn't accepted for any other vehicle, but somehow most ebikers willingly accept rules formulated by those with extreme prejudice against ebikes for nonsensical reasons.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with having an ebike where you chose the speed to match the conditions, and then you can still ride in a manner that conserves energy when you're going on those longer rides so you take advantage of the extra capacity that the higher voltage same ah pack gives you. As long as you don't ride like a jerk such a bike can actually give you greater overall safety than the slower low performance ebike. That's not to say that there's anything wrong with the guys who have sufficient cycling infrastructure and like to cruise around slow and mellow without the potential of accidentally going too fast for whom factory built performance levels are perfectly acceptable, but I find it very difficult to believe that is the majority.

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: Difference in range

Post by john61ct » Sep 14 2020 10:31am

I agree with all that, but

Most people prefer to obey the laws of their jurisdiction, even if some are in theory stupid, unfair laws against their perception of the public interest.

Some live in jurisdictions where these laws are in reality so strictly enforced, with such harsh penalties, that even those with scofflaw tendencies are forced to comply.

In any case I do not see how these issues relate to the OP question?

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ZeroEm   100 kW

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Re: Difference in range

Post by ZeroEm » Sep 15 2020 5:08pm

There is but not enough to talk about, if you try it you will like it.
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