'on board' 1.5kW charger. Which alibaba supplier?

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
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flippy   10 MW

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Re: 'on board' 1.5kW charger. Which alibaba supplier?

Post by flippy » Feb 10 2021 7:50am

john61ct wrote:
Feb 10 2021 3:23am
but none of that has to do with the difference between a charger and a PSU, either one can implement that feature.
a charger/power supply without a CC element will simply trigger an overload and shut down, so i dont see how you can call it a charger at that point. but a charger can also work as a psu. that is why i dont like using the term charger or psu. just discribe the power source by its feature. if it has CC/CV elements then it can be used to charge batteries. if it does not then you cant use it to charge batteries.
any additional features like cutting the output when the current dies down or a voltage check is just adding features, it does nothing for the actual performance of the charger and can often be problematic if you let the battery discharge too far and now the charger refuses to charge it again and you are stuck with a dead battery and a useless charger.
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Re: 'on board' 1.5kW charger. Which alibaba supplier?

Post by Jordan325ic » Feb 22 2021 9:37am

Here is what QS sent back to me. Not too informative, pretty much what the website states.
Charger SPEC quotation.pdf
(345.23 KiB) Downloaded 7 times
The 1.2kW charger claims >= 7A input, but it's unclear whether that is at 110VAC or 220VAC. I've asked, I'll report what comes back.

I went ahead and ordered a TC / Elcon 1.8kW (non-CAN) $305 shipped. You could get it for $5-$10 cheaper but EVComponents was quick to respond to my questions. My research indicates that Elcon is the US branded name for the chargers imported from the company TC. Elcon's website doesn't list the non-CAN version and they didn't respond to enquiries about it. Michael @ EVComponents tells me the CAN version can be factory reprogrammed, the 'enable mode' (non-CAN) cannot. The max-voltage-per-cell is factory set in .05V increments (for example, 4.1V, 4.15V or 4.2V).

The old school ignition switch on the '74 Yamaha I'm converting has 4 wires and only 2 positions. 2 wires short when the ignition is "ON", 2 different wires short when the ignition is off. I'll use the 'enable mode' to have the charger activate only when the ignition switch is "OFF" ("ON" will activate the controller).

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Re: 'on board' 1.5kW charger. Which alibaba supplier?

Post by john61ct » Feb 22 2021 4:02pm

Yes Elcon are widely used and well respected.

CAN is the way to go for flexibility, also safety if controlled by a good (expensive) BMS

of which a half dozen are designed to specifically be compatible.

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Re: 'on board' 1.5kW charger. Which alibaba supplier?

Post by john61ct » Feb 22 2021 4:03pm

but all the ones I've seen are big and heavy

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MJSfoto1956   100 kW

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Re: 'on board' 1.5kW charger. Which alibaba supplier?

Post by MJSfoto1956 » Feb 22 2021 4:27pm

Jordan325ic wrote:
Feb 22 2021 9:37am
I went ahead and ordered a TC / Elcon 1.8kW (non-CAN) $305 shipped.
Do you have a 30A 240V circuit available in your house/garage?

M
Bois and their fancy tacticool ain't cool -- it's a pathetic circle jerk

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flippy   10 MW

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Re: 'on board' 1.5kW charger. Which alibaba supplier?

Post by flippy » Feb 22 2021 5:19pm

MJSfoto1956 wrote:
Feb 22 2021 4:27pm
Do you have a 30A 240V circuit available in your house/garage?
why would you need that? 1.8kW is not even touching 8 amps at 240V so a nema 15 would be WAY sufficient.

completly unrelated note: american 110v system is stupid. basically ever house in europe has 240V 3 phase (3x 80A rating are possible) going into their house.
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Jordan325ic   100 mW

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Re: 'on board' 1.5kW charger. Which alibaba supplier?

Post by Jordan325ic » Feb 22 2021 10:07pm

MJSfoto1956 wrote:
Feb 22 2021 4:27pm
Do you have a 30A 240V circuit available in your house/garage?

M
No, no access at all.
john61ct wrote:
Feb 22 2021 4:02pm
Yes Elcon are widely used and well respected.

CAN is the way to go for flexibility, also safety if controlled by a good (expensive) BMS

of which a half dozen are designed to specifically be compatible.
With equal prices, I'd go with CAN. But in this case the cost is extremely high. $550 for the CAN version v.s. $300 for non-CAN.

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Re: 'on board' 1.5kW charger. Which alibaba supplier?

Post by john61ct » Feb 23 2021 1:19am

That is cheap!

There have been people with the gear and know-how to do adjustments to the non-CAN, but very rare

you used to be able to get the factory to reprogram them for $130 or so, plus shipping both ways, but I believe no more.

So basically you're locked into those specific profile as programmed, change your mind maybe have to buy another??

Get the CAN version or I'd bet you regret it.

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Re: 'on board' 1.5kW charger. Which alibaba supplier?

Post by jamiejackherer » Feb 23 2021 1:37am

Why not just search for an empty aluminium casing, even an old speed controller case would do fine, and reseat the board from a charger inside the aluminium casing.. create a method for the fan to work and there you have it.. your own waterproof, onboard charger.

I have had a similar idea, I will be fabricating a casing that will house my battery, BMS, controller and charger all linked together by a microcontroller that will be the brain of the operation and will be able to do some cool stuff, like being able to use a 72v battery charger on a 48v battery by monitoring the batteries voltage and cutting the charge at a preset voltage of say 54v.

Farnells sell the aluminium casing for around £18GBP, I've included a pic.

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ImageImage

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MJSfoto1956   100 kW

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Re: 'on board' 1.5kW charger. Which alibaba supplier?

Post by MJSfoto1956 » Feb 23 2021 2:51pm

Jordan325ic wrote:
Feb 22 2021 10:07pm
MJSfoto1956 wrote:
Feb 22 2021 4:27pm
Do you have a 30A 240V circuit available in your house/garage?
No, no access at all.
???? Then how are you going to charge your battery?
20A 115V ? If so, you'll be leaving some Amps on the table!

M
Bois and their fancy tacticool ain't cool -- it's a pathetic circle jerk

QANON is a sick cult: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/cu ... e-1064076/

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Re: 'on board' 1.5kW charger. Which alibaba supplier?

Post by john61ct » Feb 23 2021 10:47pm

Should be able to get an electrician to put a dedicated circuit in for you.

Upgrades for EV buyers are getting pretty standard, ir just tell him you're putting in a sauna 8-)

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flippy   10 MW

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Re: 'on board' 1.5kW charger. Which alibaba supplier?

Post by flippy » Feb 24 2021 7:59am

Why would you even need more then 1kW of charging at home? I dont think many people have 10kWh or bigger on their bikes or scooters.

If you want to be sure you can bolt 2 meanwell 480W ELG or HLG to the vehicle to keep under 10 amps from the wall any they are capable of being dunked in water if you want to take river crossings seriously. At least then you can charge at any plug instead of just home.
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Re: 'on board' 1.5kW charger. Which alibaba supplier?

Post by miro13car » Feb 24 2021 9:36am

waterproof charger - that is weird.
so 220V plug and waterproof?
Eplus, Bionx

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Re: 'on board' 1.5kW charger. Which alibaba supplier?

Post by Jordan325ic » Feb 24 2021 10:17am

I rent, semi-off-grid rural. Sadly it's not a matter of just hiring an electrician. I would love 220V for a variety of reasons.

The pack is 16s, 60v nominal, 6.6kwh. 110VAC should be ample for overnight charging. 800W is the target number.

QS Motor got back to me, they said for their "1.2kw" charger, Input: 110VAC the output current @60V is 8A. So that's 480W output.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001027 ... 4787oQwYER
With shipping, again close to $300, I guess that includes CAN connectivity.
miro13car wrote:
Feb 24 2021 9:36am
waterproof charger - that is weird.
so 220V plug and waterproof?
It will be charged outdoors, and it's an 'enduro' motorcycle. Goal is for all high-voltage components to be at least ip65.
Last edited by Jordan325ic on Feb 24 2021 10:21am, edited 1 time in total.

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flippy   10 MW

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Re: 'on board' 1.5kW charger. Which alibaba supplier?

Post by flippy » Feb 24 2021 10:19am

miro13car wrote:
Feb 24 2021 9:36am
waterproof charger - that is weird.
so 220V plug and waterproof?
yes, the ELG and HLG from meanwell are IP67, so they are tested to at least 30 minutes at 1 meter underwater. they are meant for outdoor use strapped to the outside of a building for 20 years. so, dunking them in a puddle will no du much. they are also fully potted so you can basically drive a truck over them.

and they take anything from 80ish volts to 250V AC. even DC will work if its between 140V~300VDC.
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Re: 'on board' 1.5kW charger. Which alibaba supplier?

Post by john61ct » Feb 24 2021 10:45am

I'd stick to the Elcon, figuring out the CAN control or getting any help on the QS supplied unit will be very dicey.

Or consider the Grin Satiator, since you have overnight.

Save up for a second then a third for when you're in a hurry.

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Re: 'on board' 1.5kW charger. Which alibaba supplier?

Post by john61ct » Feb 24 2021 12:24pm

The sealed Meanwells would be great

if you either like flippy don't care about overcharging (not voltage necessarily, just for too long)

or are OK with a CC-only profile and know how to create an HVC circuit to enable automated charge termination

Oh, and figure out the issues around hooking them up in series to get to your desired target voltage.

So maybe not so straightforward. . .



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Re: 'on board' 1.5kW charger. Which alibaba supplier?

Post by john61ct » Feb 24 2021 12:29pm


Jordan325ic wrote:With shipping, again close to $300, I guess that includes CAN connectivity.
If you think you will actually want the CAN functionality, do not assume anything.

And do not expect QS to be able to help, at all. Especially after you give them your money.

Letting them know you need all the CAN data, control specs before you commit, maybe.

Elcon already has everything publicly documented, and several members here and in other forums are intimate with how they work.



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Re: 'on board' 1.5kW charger. Which alibaba supplier?

Post by Jordan325ic » Feb 24 2021 1:23pm

john61ct wrote:
Feb 24 2021 12:29pm
If you think you will actually want the CAN functionality, do not assume anything.
Yea, as I said, I already bought an Elcon. Just putting the info I got out there.

Thanks for everyone's input!

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flippy   10 MW

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Re: 'on board' 1.5kW charger. Which alibaba supplier?

Post by flippy » Feb 24 2021 4:39pm

john61ct wrote:
Feb 24 2021 12:24pm
The sealed Meanwells would be great
if you either like flippy don't care about overcharging (not voltage necessarily, just for too long)
or are OK with a CC-only profile and know how to create an HVC circuit to enable automated charge termination
Oh, and figure out the issues around hooking them up in series to get to your desired target voltage.
So maybe not so straightforward. . .
again for clarity:

YOU CANT OVERCHARGE BY FLOATING THE CHARGER AT THE SET VOLTAGE.

(unless you set the voltage too high, but that applies to everything)

if you dont know how charging work stop commenting or ask for clarification but stop spreading disinformation.
Last edited by flippy on Feb 24 2021 4:41pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 'on board' 1.5kW charger. Which alibaba supplier?

Post by fatty » Feb 24 2021 4:39pm

flippy wrote:
Feb 10 2021 7:50am
that is why i dont like using the term charger or psu. just discribe the power source by its feature. if it has CC/CV elements then it can be used to charge batteries. if it does not then you cant use it to charge batteries.
any additional features like cutting the output when the current dies down or a voltage check is just adding features, it does nothing for the actual performance of the charger and can often be problematic if you let the battery discharge too far and now the charger refuses to charge it again and you are stuck with a dead battery and a useless charger.
No, it's exactly the charging curve and charge termination "features" that differentiate a charger from a PSU.
No, the charger refusing to charge again after overdischarge is likewise another feature that differentiates a charger from a PSU, because the damaged battery shouldn't just be bulk charged again, without warning and potentially unattended.

Playing with fire is dangerous enough. You shouldn't be encouraging other people to do so.
Don't take advice from:
there is no difference between a mean well CC/CV power supply and a device sold as a charger. they operate in EXACTLY the same way
Testing has demonstrated that ordinary rim brakes thermally outperformed all but the best disc brakes...You'll always add weight and cost, while not equalling the capabilities of comparable rim brakes, if you use discs

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flippy   10 MW

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Re: 'on board' 1.5kW charger. Which alibaba supplier?

Post by flippy » Feb 24 2021 4:44pm

fatty wrote:
Feb 24 2021 4:39pm
No, it's exactly the charging curve and charge termination "features" that differentiate a charger from a PSU.
No, the charger refusing to charge again after overdischarge is likewise another feature that differentiates a charger from a PSU, because the damaged battery shouldn't just be bulk charged again, without warning and potentially unattended.

Playing with fire is dangerous enough. You shouldn't be encouraging other people to do so.
if you dont know what the difference is between a charger and something not labled as a charger: say so.

as stated above and again: YOU CANT OVERCHARGE WITH A FIXED VOLTAGE.

the BATTERY is the one that accepts the charge, NOT the charger. once the battery is saturated it simply wont consume any more current regardless of the current the supply can output. it REALLY is that simple.

there is no difference between a mean well CC/CV power supply and a device sold as a charger. they operate in EXACTLY the same way. the only difference is a little light that indicates that the current has dropped below a certain level.
Last edited by flippy on Feb 24 2021 4:45pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 'on board' 1.5kW charger. Which alibaba supplier?

Post by fatty » Feb 24 2021 4:44pm

flippy wrote:
Feb 24 2021 4:39pm
again for clarity:

YOU CANT OVERCHARGE WITH A FIXED VOLTAGE.


if you dont know how charging work stop commenting or ask for clarification but stop spreading disinformation.
And you apparently don't understand how bulk charging with a manually-adjustable voltage output can result in individual cell overcharge.
Yes, you can charge like this, but it is a fail-deadly approach when a fault/mistake/accident happens.

You're assuming everyone is using a matched pack with functional and capable BMS to prevent damage during routine charging. You should recognize that this is the exception, not the rule.
Last edited by fatty on Feb 24 2021 5:32pm, edited 1 time in total.
Don't take advice from:
there is no difference between a mean well CC/CV power supply and a device sold as a charger. they operate in EXACTLY the same way
Testing has demonstrated that ordinary rim brakes thermally outperformed all but the best disc brakes...You'll always add weight and cost, while not equalling the capabilities of comparable rim brakes, if you use discs

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flippy   10 MW

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Re: 'on board' 1.5kW charger. Which alibaba supplier?

Post by flippy » Feb 24 2021 4:49pm

fatty wrote:
Feb 24 2021 4:44pm
And you apparently don't understand how bulk charging with a manually-adjustable voltage output can result in individual cell overcharge.
Yes, you can charge like this, but it is a fail-deadly approach when a mistake/accident happens.
You're assuming everyone is using a matched pack with functional and capable BMS to prevent damage during routine charging. You should recognize that this is the exception, not the rule.

fine, you want to die on this hill.

tell me the difference between a satiator (clearly sold as a charger) set to charge say a 10S battery (42V) at 5A and a meanwell set to 42V and 5A.

and use small words, or big ones.
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fatty   1 kW

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Re: 'on board' 1.5kW charger. Which alibaba supplier?

Post by fatty » Feb 24 2021 4:51pm

flippy wrote:
Feb 24 2021 4:44pm
there is no difference between a mean well CC/CV power supply and a device sold as a charger. they operate in EXACTLY the same way. the only difference is a little light that indicates that the current has dropped below a certain level.
How do you have 2000 posts and not know this?
From this very thread, if you cared to read it:
charger.png
charger.png (117.1 KiB) Viewed 216 times
Don't take advice from:
there is no difference between a mean well CC/CV power supply and a device sold as a charger. they operate in EXACTLY the same way
Testing has demonstrated that ordinary rim brakes thermally outperformed all but the best disc brakes...You'll always add weight and cost, while not equalling the capabilities of comparable rim brakes, if you use discs

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