36V 9Ah Li-ion batteries in plastic cases ARE HERE

marty · Jun 2, 2007

As Ypedal would say...... Look what the DHL Man dragged in !!! 36V 9Ah Li-ion batteries in plastic cases.

Silver Box

Journey Box

Take a look inside. li.voltev.com See 18 more pictures here li.voltev.com Adobe Photoshop makes a Web Photo Gallery in a few seconds. Check it out li.voltev.com

Details:
Both the silver box and journey box weigh about 6 pounds (2.72 kilograms) Each 36V 9Ah Li-ion pack constructed from 40 cells. Each cell is round, about 3/4" diameter and 2.5" long (1.90 cm x 6.35 cm) The Journey box looks like it can take a beating. Both boxes are bigger then they have to be. Both boxes have key switch and fuse. Note that the silver box has only one receptacle for both charging and power. Looks like a computer power cord? This is not stupid proof. Bad things will happen if you connect battery to 120V AC. The Silver Box comes with a steel rack. Go here to see Battery Boxes Silver box has hooks to hang on side of rack. Looks like it will rattle around a bit? Some wire ties or imagination should hold it tight. Silver box also has 4 LCDs. Think this is battery strength meter?

As of today I have not tested batteries. Price per box (un-tested) is $250 each plus shipping, includes charger. If anyone wants one? Send a private message or email marty[at]voltev.com Please replace [at] with @

30 day guarantee. Return for any reason if not happy

Will refund money. Buyer pays return shipping.
Questions? Please let me know.
www in front of li.voltev.com don't work on my browser. Don't know why :?

xyster · Jun 2, 2007

Each 36V 9Ah Li-ion pack constructed from 40 cells. Each cell is round, about 3/4" diameter and 2.5" long (1.90 cm x 6.35 cm)

So that'd be a 10s4p pack of what it looks and sounds like are 2.4ah 18650s?

~$6 per cell, $250 is a good price for 40 cells plus all the rest. I paid half that for my 2.2ah cells, but the labor required to solder them all together took weeks! And of course my boxes suck, and there's no BMS.

One problem may be discharge rate. Most 2.0-2.6 ah 18650s are only good for a sustained 1C in my experience, especially in colder weather. That's only 9 amps of current for this pack. I'd like to see a discharge curve under 1C and 2C and 3C if it'll handle it and the BMS allows it.

The reason I have 33ah is so I can reliably pull 35 amps from the pack. Originally I made a 26 ah pack -- but it couldn't provide the current.

patrick_mahoney · Jun 2, 2007

That's an impressive price.

eP · Jun 2, 2007

patrick_mahoney said:
That's an impressive price.

Impressive low or high ?

Ypedal · Jun 2, 2007

how much does the shipping, duties, and brokerage run ?

I agree with X, get a volt-meter on them and test them carefully while on your bike, 20amps from one of those might be pushing it.. maybe not. but that depends on the cells.. i'd be cautious just in case.

marty · Jun 2, 2007

patrick_mahoney said:
That's an impressive price.

eP said:
Impressive low or high ?

Low.... Because I sell for less then I pay.

Ypedal said:
how much does the shipping, duties, and brokerage run ?

From China to USA, or from USA to you in Canada?????? Don't know what duties, and brokerage cost, if anything? Only see DHL guy in real bright orange and yellow shirt.

Ypedal said:
get a volt-meter on them and test them carefully while on your bike, 20amps from one of those might be pushing it.. maybe not. but that depends on the cells.. i'd be cautious just in case.

Still working on testing stuff. Go here for the how to test story http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1041

aiicsu said:
yes ,be careful when testing.

Got my eye on a garbage picked oven. Think a oven would be a good place for possible explosion and fire? First I got to finish up 3 or 4 other unfinished projects. Come on you guys and girls. Go get your credit / debit cards, buy my batteries, you do the testing. Wire 4 together in parallel and series. Get 72V 18Ah

fechter said:
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

Marty said:
Figured out how you people write who write quote Marty wrote: quote="Marty"

eP · Jun 2, 2007

marty said:
patrick_mahoney said:

That's an impressive price.

Click to expand...

eP said:

Impressive low or high ?

Click to expand...

Low.... Because I sell for less then I pay.

For me that price is so impressive high for such low cycles cells at low discharge current. Maybe they are good enough for low power laptop but not for 500 W power-in hungry e-bike.

Lowell · Jun 2, 2007

eP said:
marty said:

patrick_mahoney said:

That's an impressive price.

Click to expand...

eP said:

Impressive low or high ?

Click to expand...

Low.... Because I sell for less then I pay.

Click to expand...

For me that price is so impressive high for such low cycles cells at low discharge current. Maybe they are good enough for low power laptop but not for 500 W power-in hungry e-bike.

I'm not doubting you, but can you post some details of a better battery deal?

eP · Jun 2, 2007

Lowell said:
eP said:

marty said:

patrick_mahoney said:

That's an impressive price.

Click to expand...

eP said:

Impressive low or high ?

Click to expand...

Low.... Because I sell for less then I pay.

Click to expand...

For me that price is so impressive high for such low cycles cells at low discharge current. Maybe they are good enough for low power laptop but not for 500 W power-in hungry e-bike.

Click to expand...

I'm not doubting you, but can you post some details of a better battery deal?

Here you are:
http://www.everspring.net/txt/product-battery.htm
http://www.everspring.net/txt/product-battery-pricing.htm

even A123 2.3 Ah for $16/cell is much better deal as they could survive 5 times more cycles at much higher discharge rate.

Lowell · Jun 2, 2007

You're comparing loose cells to a complete pack, with enclosure AND charger.

If I had to use those 40Ah cells, I'd end up with a 28s pack that weighed over 42kg... far too heavy for an ebike.

And paying $2.10 per Wh for A123 cells is crazy when you can buy them all day long on ebay for $1.25. Emoli's are the best deal going right now though at 80 to 85 cents/Wh on Ebay. They also appear to have over 30% more energy by weight than the TS-LFP cells.

eP · Jun 2, 2007

Lowell said:
You're comparing loose cells to a complete pack, with enclosure AND charger.

If I had to use those 40Ah cells, I'd end up with a 28s pack that weighed over 42kg... far too heavy for an ebike.

If you want over 10 000 watt of power.

28s => 42 kg and $2240

the same power you cant get from 20 pack as above:
so you get 60 kg for $5000 and still far less than 10 kW

What is better deal ?
Are you able to count ?

Lowell said:
And paying $2.10 per Wh for A123 cells is crazy when you can buy them all day long on ebay for $1.25.

It is still far less crazy then buying low cycles inefficient cells for $0.80.

Lowell said:
Emoli's are the best deal going right now though at 80 to 85 cents/Wh on Ebay. They also appear to have over 30% more energy by weight than the TS-LFP cells.

But TS-LFP cells are POWER cells.

If they are too heavy for your bike, so heavier Emoli aren't ?

Lowell · Jun 2, 2007

Emoli's are lighter, at around 110Wh/kg. I think you're the one that can't count. 18650 laptop cells are lighter still, with the best cells over 200Wh/kg (LG's). The only problem being the low discharge rate of course.
Why do you think the Tesla Roadster uses 18650 cells?

patrick_mahoney · Jun 2, 2007

For clarification, I meant that it was impressively low - 36V/9Ah cells, plus a case, plus a charger/BMS for US$250 in the US is an impressively good price.

Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh · Jun 3, 2007

patrick_mahoney said:
For clarification, I meant that it was impressively low - 36V/9Ah cells, plus a case, plus a charger/BMS for US$250 in the US is an impressively good price.

I'll second that.
That's less than what you'd pay for the same Wh nimh isn't it?
In fact I wonder if someone screwed up on the pricing & might be best to snap em up b4 they discover the mistake.

Lowell · Jun 3, 2007

Unless you're drag racing your ebike, you don't need ultra high C rated cells.

The TS-LFP cells are only 3C rated, whereas Emolis are 30C with a higher energy density. So you are still wrong, eP.

eP · Jun 3, 2007

Lowell said:
Unless you're drag racing your ebike, you don't need ultra high C rated cells.

The TS-LFP cells are only 3C rated, whereas Emolis are 30C with a higher energy density. So you are still wrong, eP.

30C at continuous or burst current ?
At what cycles number ?

3C is not an ultra high C rate - it is quite useful for 20 minutes climb assistance.

xyster · Jun 3, 2007

These batteries are probably 1 to 1.5C like other 18650s. Which would mean 9 - 15 amps max current. Which is probably why the pack is so cheap.

http://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1643
"Max. Discharging current 1.5C ma (for continuous discharge) "

marty · Jun 3, 2007

xyster said:
These batteries are probably 1 to 1.5C like other 18650s. Which would mean 9 - 15 amps max current. Which is probably why the pack is so cheap.

Reason pack is so cheap is because I sell for less then I buy for. Main reason I bought these was just to look inside. Now that I see size and weight of actual packs. Got a plan to use same type of batteries in a custom made plastic case. Electric Bike Project #2 is still in my mind. Don't even have a bike yet.
Compared to other batteries I looked at, these are smaller and lighter. See pictures.

xyster said:
Which would mean 9 - 15 amps max current

What would be Amps max current be, if you wire 4 packs together in parallel and series to get 72V 18Ah?

Ypedal · Jun 3, 2007

LiFe cells come in 2 versions.. high C rate.. and the lower C rated cells.

I chose the lower C rated cells ie: 25ah on a 40 amp controller, BMS set to max of 75amps. The cells i chose are rated up to 10C btw.. ( will double check this last figure.. but i am almost certain i recall corectly )
---

These 18650's are likely not going to like 10amps for the whole duration of the discharge, 20 amps for a few seconds if they have to. .. but this all speculation.

Of course, paralell multiple packs and you have yourself an Xysterbike ! :wink:

eP · Jun 3, 2007

xyster said:
These batteries are probably 1 to 1.5C like other 18650s. Which would mean 9 - 15 amps max current. Which is probably why the pack is so cheap.

http://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1643
"Max. Discharging current 1.5C ma (for continuous discharge) "

This pack is not cheap at all !!

Lets look at the params:

Code:

Internal Impedance: less or equal to 180  milliohm (with PTC) 

Cycle Performance: 90% of initial capacity at 400 cycles 

Cycle life: > 500 cycles

Charge: Current = 0.5C mA Voltage = 4.2 V End Current = 0.01 mA 

Discharge: Current = 0.5C mA End Voltage = 3.0V

Max. Charging current: 1.5C ma

Max. Discharging current 1.5C ma (for continuous discharge)

So at 1.5C rate this pack will have a huge voltage sag ( 16% at least ).

Better performance you get from two $80 each TS-LFP 40Ah packs.
And still over two times more cycles, so this "cheap pack" is 300% more expensive at least than TS offer.

And Lowell says he knows even better deals than TS-LFP.

That so inefficient pack is maybe good enough as laptop's battery extension or e-book long time power source, but definitely not as a main source for e-bike. (Maybe for cripled one which is able to moving only at flat).

Regards

xyster · Jun 3, 2007

This pack is not cheap at all !!

The references to price refer to the packs the O.P. is selling, not the similar all-battery cells, which I use.

That so inefficient pack is maybe good enough as laptop's battery extension or e-book long time power source, but definitely not as a main source for e-bike. (Maybe for cripled one which is able to moving only at flat).

These laptop cells work great for me on my ebike, 300 cells providing 80 volts and 35 amps continuous on steep hills. Once again EP, you've obviously failed to do your homework.

eP · Jun 3, 2007

xyster said:
This pack is not cheap at all !!

Click to expand...

The references to price refer to the packs the O.P. is selling, not the similar all-battery cells, which I use.

That so inefficient pack is maybe good enough as laptop's battery extension or e-book long time power source, but definitely not as a main source for e-bike. (Maybe for cripled one which is able to moving only at flat).

Click to expand...

These laptop cells work great for me on my ebike, 300 cells providing 80 volts and 35 amps continuous on steep hills. Once again EP, you've obviously failed to do your homework.

These cells obviously cannot work great as you must build so huge ( 300 cells ) pack for the sake of theirs inefficiency.
Once again you failed - or maybe i'm wrong again ? :wink:
Maybe "work great" mean for you a lot of money throw out for huge and heavy battery pack - which will be unable to work soon for the sake of rising internal impendace and low number cycles that still left.

Lowell · Jun 3, 2007

eP that's quite enough from you in this thread. Anything else way off topic will be deleted or moved.

eP · Jun 3, 2007

Lowell said:
eP that's quite enough from you in this thread. Anything else way off topic will be deleted or moved.

OK censor you win.

You and xyster have great cells packs.
They are long life and very efficient.

Are you happy now ?

Good luck in business my dear censors !!

NickF23 · Jun 3, 2007

Worth being as bit careful OEM li-ion cobalt packs. There were quite a few made for the european ebike market, with some fires and reported by people posting on UK pedelec/ebike forums. Quite a few problems with reliablility aswell (see yahoo power-assist archives). Most companies seem to be moving over to li--ion maganese. And I imagine will soon be using li-ion phosphate once they become more available.

That said li-ion cobalt is still the lighest battery chemistry you can buy and if your willing to experiment you can have a very light weight/long range bike. Just worth learning all the safety aspects of li-ion first. See some of Patrick's and Xyster's posts.

36V 9Ah Li-ion batteries in plastic cases ARE HERE

1 MW

10 MW

100 W

10 kW

Moderator

1 MW

10 kW

100 kW

10 kW

100 kW

10 kW

100 kW

100 W

1 MW

100 kW

10 kW

10 MW

1 MW

Moderator

10 kW

10 MW

10 kW

100 kW

10 kW

100 W

Similar threads