Any reason to not go Straight for a 14s, 52v pack for my first battery?

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I'm hoping to build my first batteries for the trashbikes I've found and detailed in prior threads, and I'm hoping to use cheap OEM cells like these (https://batteryhookup.com/products/ford-module-with-38-3-7v-5ah-power-cells) to keep the complexity down and quality high. I have a small collection of simple 48v controllers to tool around with, but this made me wonder- is there any reason for me at all (assuming I find those cell's data sheets) to go for a battery back that isn't a 14S, aside from safety? I know Dogdipstick is a BIG fan of going 60v; what are ya'lls opinions?

For the record- I own two 350w bafang motors from Battery Clearing House, an unknown brushed scooter motor at 24v, a Lightning Rods big block kit, and a Sondors Thin
 
CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING said:
- is there any reason for me at all (assuming I find those cell's data sheets) to go for a battery back that isn't a 14S, aside from safety? I know Dogdipstick is a BIG fan of going 60v; what are ya'lls opinions?
Reasons? How about top speed and motor efficiency at your desired most used cruising speed? Play with the simulator and see which voltage gives you the best conditions for your motor and wheel size at your common cruising speeds.

Battery voltage will obviously affect motor speeds depending on the Kv rating of the motor. Kv value is the rpm the motor will turn when given 1 volt of current with no external load. Hubmotors are most efficient near their top speed. Motor efficiency falls the slower you go from its top speed. Less efficient = more energy wasted as heat instead of propulsion.
 
CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING said:
Dogdipstick is a BIG fan of going 60v; what are ya'lls opinions?

a Lightning Rods big block kit, and a Sondors Thin[/i]

I have one of those too, that I am trying to get going. Lr big block. I also have an Ecospeed geared mid drive. So many choices. Top speed, available chains and combos.. rpms, this or that voltage, ect. I think I want to go 14s for big amps and efficiency in the med-power ranges.. Easy pack.. I think 50Ah @ 14s might be better than the expense of the equipment to handle 25Ah @ 28s.... ( same wH).. Lil safer too. Like economical cruising. Too high, and the charge takes to long and the charger is more expensive, to low and the amps are to high. A lower voltage battery of the same wH will take more amps. With gearing you can make tork off of relative conservative amps I am hoping. I still want like 45mph for cruising long distances. Plus more 1000w chargers in 60v.. BMS is cheaper too. Less chance of burning something up.
 
I like 12S/44V packs. They're better at letting me get up on top of a hub motor's RPM range without having to feed needless/heavy/expensive amounts of power.

But as others have said, it's probably best to decide other factors like which motor and wheel size you want to work with, and let your choice of battery voltage be informed by those things.
 
What is your end purpose? What does the system as a whole, the bike or other vehicle the battery will power, need to do for you, and under what conditions?

You need to define that before you begin picking parts for it, to ensure it will do what you want it to do.

CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING said:
I'm hoping to build my first batteries for the trashbikes I've found and detailed in prior threads, and I'm hoping to use cheap OEM cells like these (https://batteryhookup.com/products/ford-module-with-38-3-7v-5ah-power-cells) to keep the complexity down and quality high. I have a small collection of simple 48v controllers to tool around with, but this made me wonder- is there any reason for me at all (assuming I find those cell's data sheets) to go for a battery back that isn't a 14S, aside from safety? I know Dogdipstick is a BIG fan of going 60v; what are ya'lls opinions?

For the record- I own two 350w bafang motors from Battery Clearing House, an unknown brushed scooter motor at 24v, a Lightning Rods big block kit, and a Sondors Thin
 
I'd reply directly to each person's comments, but I think I get the problem- my spread of motors is too great, and each one is different in torque so making a single spread of batteries for all is actually a poor decision, instead of sizing each battery to each unit.

F--k, man. I just wanna power a bunch of dumb crap and ride around my city with my boys like an EV bike gang 8)

amberwolf said:
What is your end purpose? What does the system as a whole, the bike or other vehicle the battery will power, need to do for you, and under what conditions?

Basically, I have tons of parts but I've been smacked something dumb by information paralysis; I've just got too many options and I'm hoping to cut things down to make it all easier on myself. My hope and goal was to have basically 1 battery for all needs, that then I'd make several copies of using recycled EV car cells- and have them powerful enough for my area, which basically my city is one big hill with odd elevation changes. Nothing super crazy, but obviously hard to make something generic for.
 
CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING said:
I'm hoping to build my first batteries for the trashbikes I've found and detailed in prior threads, and I'm hoping to use cheap OEM cells like these (https://batteryhookup.com/products/ford-module-with-38-3-7v-5ah-power-cells) to keep the complexity down and quality high. I have a small collection of simple 48v controllers to tool around with, but this made me wonder- is there any reason for me at all (assuming I find those cell's data sheets) to go for a battery back that isn't a 14S, aside from safety?

CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING said:
For the record- I own two 350w bafang motors from Battery Clearing House, an unknown brushed scooter motor at 24v, a Lightning Rods big block kit, and a Sondors Thin

CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING said:
My hope and goal was to have basically 1 battery for all needs, that then I'd make several copies of using recycled EV car cells- and have them powerful enough for my area, which basically my city is one big hill with odd elevation changes. Nothing super crazy, but obviously hard to make something generic for.
Quite a mixture from two 350w bafang motors to a collection of simple 48v controllers to using recycled EV car cells rated at 5Ah. Wouldn't you need at least 5 of those 5Ah cells in parallel for a Controller with only 20A limiting current. A 12s5p=60 of those EV cells.
CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING said:
I know Dogdipstick is a BIG fan of going 60v; what are ya'lls opinions?

As much as you want to build a battery your first build should be the e-bike custom frame with room enuf to house 60-70 of those EV cells. That means you would have to buy two of those 38 cell modules (38x$4.50=$171ea).

Have you even considered the S-I-Z-E of a custom-made e-bike/etrike frame to house just a 12s5p (60 EV cells) battery? Using two modules (76 cells--$340) you could build a 14s5p requiring 70 of the 76 EV cells (from 2 modules). Can you build an e-bike for that battery?

Apparently you haven't done any due diligence yet as far as your e-bike build or you would never have made mention of those Battery Hookup modules. Because they say "power cells" you figured they would be just the ticket for your "city being one big hill" ?
 
Rungu style front wheel dualie drive (two Bafang 350W motors) with two 48V Controllers. Custom build for your 14s5p (25Ah) PowerPack for both off-road and cruising around your ... City that's on a Hill.

1c54ff28298cc144b5678c3bdecdfe6ff244c057.jpeg


It's amazing what a person can accomplish with due diligent planning and perseverance - :thumb:
12s5p - Two of these (60 cells) - https://batteryhookup.com/products/ford-module-with-30-3-7v-5ah-power-cells?pr_prod_strat=copurchase&pr_rec_id=b8c946f55&pr_rec_pid=6984024621218&pr_ref_pid=6984020525218&pr_seq=uniform

It's helpful if you have a mentor that's half mechanical & electrical genius to guide you - :thumb:
CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING said:
Nothing super crazy, but obviously hard to make something generic for.
Maybe, it's a tad on the crazy side for your first e-bike/battery build, but a nice dream - :thumb:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P9Ig8PEAfQ
 
eMark said:
Quite a mixture from two 350w bafang motors to a collection of simple 48v controllers to using recycled EV car cells rated at 5Ah. Wouldn't you need at least 5 of those 5Ah cells in parallel for a Controller with only 20A limiting current. A 12s5p=60 of those EV cells.
As much as you want to build a battery your first build should be the e-bike custom frame with room enuf to house 60-70 of those EV cells. That means you would have to buy two of those 38 cell modules (38x$4.50=$171ea).
Didn't know that- I thought amp-hours increased with series and parallels connections.

Have you even considered the S-I-Z-E of a custom-made e-bike/etrike frame to house just a 12s5p (60 EV cells) battery? Using two modules (76 cells--$340) you could build a 14s5p requiring 70 of the 76 EV cells (from 2 modules). Can you build an e-bike for that battery?
I have been, and that's why I've made threads asking for images of people's battery packs and builds for ideas and inspiration. As for the "can you", Chalo is- but I'm still trying to even find an official Samsung data sheet on them.

Apparently you haven't done any due diligence yet as far as your e-bike build or you would never have made mention of those Battery Hookup modules. Because they say "power cells" you figured they would be just the ticket for your "city being one big hill" ?
Dude, this stuff is hard. I'm literally doing my due diligence making threads like this one- basic information on the basics, like voltage and amperage, or discharge rates or whatever I only recently learned thanks to random websites I found on making car stereos- I've asked here in the past for good primers and I got nowhere, which is why I've appeared and disappeared a few times. I've also bought the books from Micah, but for some reason the information isn't sticking.

As for why I was looking at them so hard? Because they're $5 each, Chalo uses them in his bike powering a leafbike motor, and DogDipstick is a huge fan of using repurposed EV cells over 18650s or other "typical" cells since a car has FAR higher reliability needs. They also have screw terminal posts, so assembly- in a long package "shelf" on the back because I thought they discharged enough to make a 14s1p viable- could be done with little copper busbars bolted together, only soldered to the charge/discharge wires. But obviously to meet the current needs you posted it's not viable anymore.
 
eMark said:
Wouldn't you need at least 5 of those 5Ah cells in parallel for a Controller with only 20A limiting current. A 12s5p=60 of those EV cells.
CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING said:
Didn't know that- I thought amp-hours increased with series and parallel connections.
Reading it again it does come across as a tad confusing as two separate issues in same sentence. A 14s1p would provide only 5Ah of use. You'd want at least 10Ah. So what about a 12s2p DIY build using this ... https://batteryhookup.com/products/ford-module-with-30-3-7v-5ah-power-cells?pr_prod_strat=copurchase&pr_rec_id=b8c946f55&pr_rec_pid=6984024621218&pr_ref_pid=6984020525218&pr_seq=uniform ?

The second part of the sentence "Controller with only 20A limiting current" was guessing that your 48V Controllers are rated at limiting current of 20A. Could you possibly make room for 24 EV cells (5"x3"x1/2") as a 12s2p 10Ah EV PowerPack ? Two 6s2p that can be 10wg cabled together as a 12s2p as well as split and paralleled as a 6s4p for charging with a RC 2s-6s Balance Charger? As two 6s2p packs you should be able to find space on your e-bike for connecting them together as 12s2p via 10wg copper or silcone cable. A 20A Controller should be sufficient with a 12s2p EV pack. You have pedal assist if/when needed for steep inclines.
CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING said:
As for why I was looking at them so hard? Because they're $5 each, Chalo uses them in his bike powering a leafbike motor, and DogDipstick is a huge fan of using repurposed EV cells over 18650s or other "typical" cells since a car has FAR higher reliability needs.
Yes, BUT don't misinterpret that to mean that DD thinks 1865s or 2170s now take a proverbial "backseat" for e-bike DIY li-ion builds. You may not realize how MUCH knowledge and experience is acquired along the way before they built their first EV powered custom e-bike. So to them it's easy-peasy, but still requires a fair amount of labor intensive effort and a fair amount of $$$ to complete their custom build projects always learning along the ... journey :thumb:
CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING said:
They also have screw terminal posts, so assembly- in a long package "shelf" on the back because I thought they discharged enough to make a 14s1p viable- could be done with little copper busbars bolted together, only soldered to the charge/discharge wires. But obviously to meet the current needs you posted it's not viable anymore.
Power enuf, but for how long pulling 10-20amps plus lost energy and LVC at only a 5Ah rate ?

Reading between the lines of the previous posts in this thread including those by Chalo and DogDipstick you may be biting off more than you can chew; especially when you say ...
I've also bought the books from Micah, but for some reason the information isn't sticking
You certainly aren't alone. In fact that's part of the learning curve for everyone. It doesn't sink in ... in a week or a month. It's a great intro to DIY e-bike battery builds. Reading and re-reading is part of the learning curve ... eventually making sense and sticking.

Using only a 350W front hub motor is a mis-match with a DIY 12s2p build with EV Powerful pouch cells. Being sustained POWER is apparently your #1 priority (more than Ah capacity) you need at the very least a 500W motor. Realistically a 750W motor is likely what's needed.
 
eMark said:
Using only a 350W front hub motor is a mis-match with a DIY 12s2p build with EV Powerful pouch cells. Being sustained POWER is apparently your #1 priority (more than Ah capacity) you need at the very least a 500W motor. Realistically a 750W motor is likely what's needed.
I wouldn't doubt it, but I'm making due with what I have to learn- and the wheel and controller + throttle combinations were sourced for less than $30 each lol

Reading between the lines of the previous posts in this thread including those by Chalo and DogDipstick you may be biting off more than you can chew; especially when you say ...
You certainly aren't alone. In fact that's part of the learning curve for everyone. It doesn't sink in ... in a week or a month. It's a great intro to DIY e-bike battery builds. Reading and re-reading is part of the learning curve ... eventually making sense and sticking.
Maybe. I've been striking out when finding other packs built with them, but knowing their discharge is capped at 5ah already takes them out for me. Looks like Jehu has Lishen 2170s on the cheap I might consider instead- assuming some of these tool packs I tear into don't have the discharge rates I need.
I've got about everything else needed for a battery pack using a copper-nickel steel sandwich (sans BMS), I just need the time to mod the cheap spot welder so it doesn't kill it's octocoupler.
 
CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING said:
As for why I was looking at them so hard? Because they're $5 each, Chalo uses them in his bike powering a leafbike motor,

The ones I'm using are not 5Ah, but 25Ah (original rating). They're also rated for 300A discharge, which I'm not asking them to do.

EV cells are a different game than hobby cells. They're manufactured to much tighter specs, and they can pack extremely high performance, though it sometimes comes at the cost of energy density.

The last EV module I opened up and tried in my bike was only 8.5Ah, but had a 100A contactor and a 150A fuse on the discharge bus. On the down side, it's only 44V 8.5Ah, but weighs 12.5 pounds. Still, for less than $80 including shipping, that's good value.
 
Being you're still planning on using a 350W hub motor that you already have, then a 12s5p (1865 or 2170) with a 48V controller (20A?) is plenty good for your first battery build. I'll even go so far as to say: "It's ridiculous using salvaged EV lithium pouch cells to power a 350W hub motor."
Chalo said:
The ones I'm using are not 5Ah, but 25Ah (original rating). They're also rated for 300A discharge, which I'm not asking them to do.

EV cells are a different game than hobby cells. They're manufactured to much tighter specs, and then can pack extremely high performance, though it sometimes comes at the cost of energy density.
By hobby cells Chalo is referring to smaller RC (hobby cells) lithium polymer pouch cells NOT 1865s or 2170s. Even so RC "hobby cells" with a sustained power-punch aren't cheap.

If Chalo or DD actually believed you are going to use a 350W hub motor they wouldn't be recommending the use of those salvaged, but still powerpacked EV lithium pouch cells.

What we all could use are salvaged EV pouch cells e.g. 3"x2"x3/8". With 5Ah and 50amp rating that were still good for 3Ah and 35amp drain with screw terminals for the bus bars and costing only $2 ea. The cells for such a 12s5p build would only cost $120 :thumb:

The only problem is that EV pouch cells that small don't exist AFAIK for mini EVs. If they do exist and salvaged modules were ever posted for sale on BatteryHookup they'd be sold in an instant.
 
eMark said:
By hobby cells Chalo is referring to smaller RC (hobby cells) lithium polymer pouch cells NOT 1865s or 2170s.

18650s are absolutely hobby cells. You can get hobby welders and hobby cell holders for them, fer cripes' sake. Building batteries with them constitutes a hobby in itself.

By EV cells, I mean high uniformity cells of a large enough format that you'll never be stuck doing ridiculous things like 14S 10P pack layout.
 
Chalo said:
18650s are absolutely hobby cells.
How far do you think you'd get trying to convince Elan Musk, Tesla electrical engineers and Panasonic that "18650s are absolutely hobby cells" ... when just a few years ago they were still used to power Tesla's.

DIY e-bike battery builds using salvaged EV modules is more of a hobby than a money making profession. Thus, salvaged EV modules from BatteryHookup are only useful as "hobby cells" for those that can't afford more expensive new 18650 or 21700 lithium cells. Li-ion cells like VTC6 or 25R are still used in professional e-power [hobby :?: ] tools (VTC6 - RIDGID battery and 25R Milwaukee battery).

It sounds like Chalo are still trying to convince CS that a salvaged EV module(s) from BatteryHookup is the way to go (fer cripes' sake). They're more Manly than little 1865s :wink:
CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING said:
Looks like Jehu has Lishen 2170s on the cheap I might consider instead- assuming some of these tool packs I tear into don't have the discharge rates I need.

It's possible to outfit your first e-bike for as little as $150 (not including the used "junk" bike). CS can have just as much fun for a lot less work without spot-welding a DIY 12s3p 21700 battery. For all we know come tomorrow Chalo may also refer to 2170s as "hobby cells" :lol:

Keep It Simple for starters like in this youtube with what may be a 350W hub motor ...
https://www.youtube.com/user/jehugarcia ... you'll have just as much fun and a lot less hassle while learning enuf along the journey :thumb:
 
Any cell that you have to use massively parallel to get what you need, is silly kid stuff. You don't have Tesla's process control or their manufacturing robots. 1P is the best P.
 
Yes, I do not discount building with good 21700 cells, for someone can build a 50Ah pack where my 25Ah pack fits.... and still be " strong enuf, long lasting, and reliable, with excellent energy density... "

I just cannot aford a 1000$ worth of round cells, and I dont want to build with used, unknown quantity/quality of cells... Dont buy a battery if it is used unless you KONW you are getting what you paid for.. with 400+ cell purchases this becomes hard to do...

I certainly won a K-Weld and do keep it in the " Special tool drawer".

I recently did some measuring. Cells on my bike. The Chevrolet Volt 25Ah cell.

1mOh, 25Ah, 204.14 wH/Kg.... TWO HUNDRED FOUR POINT ONE FOUR.
Watt hours per kilogram.
3000w/Liter.
453g.
0.25" x 10 " x 5.875".
15 Cu inches ea.
0.00868056 Cu foot ea. (0.0163871 liter)....
17C +.
92.5 Watt Hours. 453g.

My whole pack is 9kg.. 1.8Ah nom.... and for every kG of mass, I can put on the bike, I can output 3kW.. so that is 27kW contin... BUT... ( big but).. I'll only ever use all the power they afford IF I have like a 30 lb motor ( that I do).... That might peak at that power level for a few min.

Anything reasonable ebike size ( read, legal, as an ebike) really could use smaller cells, with a better energy density, that would take you father. I drain drain my 15Ah ( old, recently replaced, much older cell, 165wh/kG cell.. ) pack in 13 miles in 15 min. I would do this two or three times a day with only 1.2kWh capacity on my QS motor. ~100A load.

For the mid drive I want to go alot lighter. Motor wise. I will use the same cell. 204wH/ kG is right up there with the p42A once you subtract the 9% wasted space of its 230wH/kilogram number. However, I dont like stress under power.. and I have the 10C plus contin capability form my 25Ah vs teh 50Ah-70Ah it would take in p42A... To have congruent IR.

....there are 260 wH/kg 18650 available nowadays.

Here is a pic of the 204wH/kG cells on my bike. 453g ea.
 

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Chalo said:
I like 12S/44V packs. They're better at letting me get up on top of a hub motor's RPM range without having to feed needless/heavy/expensive amounts of power.
Glad to see that you agree with me - :) - considering that the hub motor CS is planning to use is only 350W. As a mentor are you OK with CS using Lishen 2170 ("hobby cells") ...
CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING wrote: ↑May 18 2022 2:07pm
Looks like Jehu has Lishen 2170s on the cheap I might consider instead- assuming some of these tool packs I tear into don't have the discharge rates I need.
Could be tool packs with salvaged 18650s may-be for use as you say as "hobby cells" ... :wink:

Salvaged EV hobby cells feeding 350W hub - more expensive than 12s3p Lishen 2170 cells ?
https://liionwholesale.com/products/lishen-21700-lr2170sd-9-6a-flat-top-5000mah-battery-genuine?variant=39353263489093 ... $5.34 ea
 
DogDipstick said:
Yes, I do not discount building with good 21700 cells, for someone can build a 50Ah pack where my 25Ah pack fits.... and still be " strong enuf, long lasting, and reliable, with excellent energy density... "
But is the cost of a 50Ah 2170 Grade A pack a fair comparison to Battery Hookup salvaged EV module Grade B 25Ah build that still has good usable life ? What's the cost differential ??
DogDipstick said:
Anything reasonable ebike size ( read, legal, as an ebike) really could use smaller cells, with a better energy density, that would take you father. I drain drain my 15Ah ( old, recently replaced, much older cell, 165wh/kG cell.. ) pack in 13 miles in 15 min. I would do this two or three times a day with only 1.2kWh capacity on my QS motor. ~100A load.
What about a 1st time KIS 12S2P 16Ah DIY pouch build (20A Controller and 350W hub) with these salavged cells from Battery Hookup ... SPIM08HP 3.7V 16AH - THE BEST DIY VALUE! https://batteryhookup.com/products/2x-spim08hp-3-7v-8ah-cells-with-threaded-insert?pr_prod_strat=copurchase&pr_rec_id=0015a724f&pr_rec_pid=5823231361186&pr_ref_pid=5611830968482&pr_seq=uniform. Would likely involve the least amount of labor intensive effort of the EV module choices at BH (12 for $102 plus extras).

Less labor intensive DIY than a 12s, 13s or 14s DIY spot-welded build using Grade A Lishen LR2170SA (4000mAh 12A) cells ($3.50 in quantity). CS was budgeting $170 for that EV pouch module, but only 5Ah as 1p, and not interested in 2p mod. Salvaged EV modules, even though Grade B, can still have a second life as a powerful e-bike battery ... room enuf permitting. With 2170s he'd need to invest in spot-welding equipment, accessories, etc.

Of the e-bike builds in BHs Customer Project Builds Blog the SPIM08HP cells seemed to be popular choice (easy peasy) compared to the more time consuming DIY spot-welded build.

melvin_mcdowell_480x480.jpg

16s2p battery pack for an ebike using Battery Hookup's SPIM08HP cells ...
https://batteryhookup.com/pages/customer-projects
14s1p 8ah battery upgrade for a electric pit bike using BH's SPIM08HP cells
Screen_Shot_2020-08-15_at_2.54.10_PM_480x480.png

https://batteryhookup.com/products/spim08hp-3-7v-8ah-200a-lithium-ion-w-cell-holder?pr_prod_strat=copurchase&pr_rec_id=4cafd1c48&pr_rec_pid=4863652692100&pr_ref_pid=5823231361186&pr_seq=uniform

Like with all BH salvaged cells (Grade B) pre-testing is mandatory. Likely that a few cells may lack sufficient capacity. Maybe 10% don't pass pre-test so order extra EV pouches ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nGUpzEPfl4

Being CS had budgeted $170 for the other EV module would it be a good idea to buy at least 5 additional SPIM08HP cells just in case? For example down the road he may find out one or more of the cells is underperforming and should be replaced or some didn't pass pre-testing.

ONE QUESTION: Spec says: "Recommend Continuous Discharge Rate 400A" So what if the routine average drain is 10amp for say: 12s2p, 13s2p or 14s2p with MCD only 20 amps and say only 20-30 percent of the time ?? (2-8Ah paralleled cells (16Ah) in each $8.50 enclosure)
 
eMark said:
ONE QUESTION: Spec says: "Recommend Continuous Discharge Rate 400A" So what if the routine average

Bahaha they say 400A now? Shit that must be bad for all the youtube vids where the people say 200A... Lol. BHU just keeps o increasing the amps eh? Lol.

Those things suck... You couldn't pay me to say good things about them. I've been paid to not say bad things about them.

Lol.
 
DogDipstick said:
eMark said:
ONE QUESTION: Spec says: "Recommend Continuous Discharge Rate 400A" So what if the routine average

Bahaha they say 400A now? Shit that must be bad for all the youtube vids where the people say 200A... Lol. BHU just keeps o increasing the amps eh? Lol.

If you look at the link he provided, it's for two parallel SPIM08 pouch cells in a frame with screw terminals. So it makes sense that it would be rated 2X the amp rating for a single cell.

Whether 200A/cell is plausible I can't say, but it is their rating. It also implies draining the cell from full to empty in a little over 2 minutes, which seems less than totally useful for a vehicle.
 
Chalo said:
If you look at the link he provided, it's for two parallel SPIM08 pouch cells in a frame with screw terminals.

I know that. I said what I said.

Someone is asking me about them right now in Pm. My opinions. Advice. I know it is a 2p, in that ad, for that price... and... Yea I just remark, on how, next week, it will be " 1600A" in big red numbers plastered across the face of the website.... and in the small print... it will say " (4p)"

Regardless of what they " say"... I really doubt you can find any independent, empirical, data to confirm these numbers.

Sales should be based on " proof" or " manufacture data" not " fancy numbers to attract buyers"... in my opinion. It is not hard to datalog a 200A load continuous with congruent temperature data. Flir cam is 1000$, datalogger from Grin is 300$, boom, data. Volume of water in a bucket, a thermometer.. and a resistor load... Count the BTu produced easily from any certain discharge. Have it on a log. Get out that old Extech thermocouple datalogger, Old man. I guess it is not very profitable to do this. Load testing. For a hobbyist market.

I gotta shut up now cause I have kinda been bribed NOT to talk trash on these cells. WhoopTee.

I mean.... why do we have caloriometers in this great world anyway? For show? Lol. I guess all the *real* battery scientist dont waste the time with the hobby grade stuff. Grrrr. Pet peeve of mine. Random testing of all the battery " data" that really doesn't tell us " much" .. I'm just a little sus... might be some sales shenanigans going on... IDk....cant say for sure.

Goddamninit Ittle Start yo Car! A Umerican Vee 8! starteid 'er rite up!

Damn science. Lol Chalo. I have made a few bussbar sets for these. Sold to enthusiasts... Time and Mat... . Until Tom @ BHU began sourcing them. Along with the requested black cell holders that come with them now. Remember when he sold them loose? Now I think they are even cheaper.
 
eMark said:
What about a 1st time KIS 12S2P 16Ah DIY pouch build (20A Controller and 350W hub) with these salavged cells from Battery Hookup ... SPIM08HP 3.7V 16AH - THE BEST DIY VALUE! https://batteryhookup.com/products/2x-spim08hp-3-7v-8ah-cells-with-threaded-insert?pr_prod_strat=copurchase&pr_rec_id=0015a724f&pr_rec_pid=5823231361186&pr_ref_pid=5611830968482&pr_seq=uniform. Would likely involve the least amount of labor intensive effort of the EV module choices at BH (12 for $102 plus extras).

Woah, didn't know these had screw terminals too. Before shipping, a 14s pack of them would only run $120 and I could copper busbar the rest together, which depending on what appears in my local junkyard could be pretty damn cheap.

DogDipstick said:
I know that. I said what I said.

Someone is asking me about them right now in Pm. My opinions. Advice. I know it is a 2p, in that ad, for that price... and... Yea I just remark, on how, next week, it will be " 1600A" in big red numbers plastered across the face of the website.... and in the small print... it will say " (4p)"

Regardless of what they " say"... I really doubt you can find any independent, empirical, data to confirm these numbers.

I have no plans yet to even push 100 Amps through something like a Grintech controller, so even that would be perfectly fine for my (current) needs. I ABOLSUTELY need to be spot-welding 18650s and playing around with making smaller packs, but right now all my salvage hoard may not have the discharge rates needed; I still really appreciate everything you've taught me tho!

How do people attach these using those tab connections? Do they weld those, or just crimp them in some manner? If I chose these I'd get them with the hangers and just build busbars, but it seems like for naked pouches people make some kind of clip system?
 
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