EEStor ultracapacitor

I dont know if everyone already knows about this, but i hope it really works and goes into production, the specs they have for the first model that will go into production are 52kWh in a 400 pound module, about 280 Wh/kg! and will cost about $3000. im sure if its a success they will make all different sized modules, how about a 30lb 3.7kWh module for your ebike that can recharge in minutes!

How about a 1KWH module that weighs 12lbs = 48v 20 ah

i assume youre talking about a lithium pack, but the eestor would have nearly unlimited charge cycles and charge as fast as you can dump current into it, and also be cheaper, 1/10 the weight and 1/2 the cost of lead acid per AH is what they expect.

That is a promising technology, but just being able to store that much energy doesn't mean you can easily use it. I forget, but seems to me the voltage was very high, so making a circuit to convert it to a useable voltage will be as much of a barrier as the capacitor itself.

I can get behind the idea of virtually unlimited charging rate and cycle life.

i believe the conversion circuitry is included in the module i think you provide household current to a charge port and its stepped up to the capacitor working voltage to charge them, and another port that provides the voltage to the motor or whatever, it would step it down from the 1000s of volts into the cap and regulate it at a constant voltage as the cap voltage drops. the circuitry must be complex but certainly doable. do you think pulse width modulation would work from 3000 volts down to 0-100 volts?

In theory it would work fine except I haven't seen many transistors that can handle 3kv. Vacuum tubes aren't a great solution either.
I have seen some IGBT's that go up to 1200v. I suppose with careful design, you might make some work in series.

A good blog about it here:
http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2006/01/eestor_ultracap.html

What's the likelihood of a capacitor-cell failure resulting in a catastrophic short, as this poster mentions?

I just dug through their patent to answer my own question. It's a REALLY BIG dielectric capactor! Running 31F at 3500V in 336 pounds gives them 350Wh/kg.
I really hate to think what would happen if a single one of all those parallel dielectrics failed! 52kWh through a short circuit could melt the thing to slag. It better be self-healing.

More hype:
http://ohgizmo.com/2006/09/26/eestor-ultracapacitor-5-minutes-to-charge-500-miles-per-charge/

that picture there isnt an eestor module its just a maxwell ultracap module they have 2.5v capacitors from 200-2000 farads at about 5Wh/kg, the 300F ones are the size of C cells, nowhere near what eestor will be if its real. it would be nice to get some of those maxwell ones though to make a boost module or something double your pack voltage for a few seconds for a burst of speed, they are pricey though $25 each.

I saw this today:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/07/070702150050.htm

High-performance Energy Storage
Science Daily — North Carolina State University physicists have recently deduced a way to improve high-energy-density capacitors so that they can store up to seven times as much energy per unit volume than the common capacitor. High performance capacitors would enable hybrid and electric cars with much greater acceleration, better and faster steering of rockets and spacecraft, better regeneration of electricity when using brakes in electric cars, and improved lasers, among many other electrical applications.

A capacitor is an energy storage device. Electrical energy is stored by a difference in charge between two metal surfaces. Unlike a battery, capacitors are designed to release their energy very quickly. They are used in electric power systems, hybrid cars, and all kinds of electronics.

The amount of energy that a capacitor can store depends on the insulating material in between the metal surfaces, called a dielectric. A polymer called PVDF has interested physicists as a possible high-performance dielectric. It exists in two forms, polarized or unpolarized. In either case, its structure is mostly frozen-in and changes only slightly when a capacitor is charged up. Mixing a second polymer called CTFE with PVDF results in a material with regions that can change their structure, enabling it to store and release unprecedented amounts of energy.

The team, led by Vivek Ranjan, concluded that a more ordered arrangement of the material inside the capacitor could further increase the energy storage of new high-performance capacitors, which already store energy four times more densely than capacitors used in industry. Their predictions of higher energy density capacitors are encouraging, but have yet to be experimentally tested.

Note: This story has been adapted from a news release issued by American Physical Society.

This came in my morning email:
http://www.zenncars.com/media/documents/CleantechMAR08.pdf

Here's some chit-chat from the naysayers; scroll down to the comments section:
http://media.cleantech.com/2644/zenn-gearing-up-for-eestor-powered-car

Zenn gearing up for EEStor-powered car

Toronto-based electric vehicle maker Zenn Motor (TSX: ZNN) is moving forward with plans for a
highway speed vehicle to be powered by EEStor in Cedar Park, Texas, announcing plans to roll out the
new cars in the fall of 2009.

"We need to move away from chemical battery technology to a whole new way of storing energy for
electric vehicles, with a solid infrastructure to support global roll out," said Ian Clifford, CEO of Zenn,
at the company's annual general meeting.

"Through their massive improvements on energy storage and power density, EEStor will virtually
eliminate all of the shortcomings of existing and proposed chemical battery technology."

Secretive ultracapacitor firm EEStor, backed by Zenn and Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, is
developing a solid-state electrical energy storage unit which it says will be longer lasting, lighter, more powerful, and environmentally friendly than current battery technologies.

"EEStor's technology is a tenth the weight and volume of lead-acid batteries, and significantly smaller
than the most advanced chemical batteries today," said Clifford.

Zenn said EEStor has publicly committed to commercialization in 2008, and that EEStor's first
production line would be used to supply Zenn.

EEStor granted worldwide exclusive licenses for its storage units to Zenn for use in car conversions as
well as for new small and medium-sized low speed and highway capable vehicles, but EEStor has
already made at least one deal for other uses of its technology.

The highway speed vehicle, to be called the cityZenn, will have a top speed of 80 miles per hour and a range of 250 miles, according to Zenn. The company said the EEStor powered car will be rechargeable in less than 5 minutes.

Zenn did not disclose a price for the new car, but Clifford said it would be cost-competitive with combustion engine vehicles.

Click to expand...

If I can charge it at home as well, although much slower, then I am interested. If it requires some sort of infrastructure to charge, then it will fail.

Didn't their last set of press releases say they would be available mid 2008?

Zenn's shares were at Cdn$3.72 in afternoon trading, up 62 cents, or 20 percent on the news.

Click to expand...

I'd love to see this happen, but until then I'm not going to hold my breath. I think TD posted an expose article on ZAP! (different company, obviously) that discussed its vaporware and overhyped claims.

*hopes anyway*

I want my supercaps, dammit !

okay, okay here you go.
no need to go into a rage.

Wha...?

:?

Dubble-yoo-tee-eff?

You can charge it in 5 minutes if you plug it directly into a nuclear reactor.

What I want to see is a reasonably priced e-bike "battery" that charges in 5 minutes and is 10 times lighter than SLA batteries.

Who knows, it might happen. Might not.

Hello All,
Got this in my email this morning.
http://media.cleantech.com/3174/eestors-weir-speaks-about-ultracapacitor-milestone

Apparently EEStor had some of the properties of their ESU checked by a third party and it passed...I've read the article twice and well I'm a bit confused...here's the quote from the article.

Texas Research International, acting as an independent laboratory, certified the level of crystallization in EEStor's composition modified barium titanate, or CMBT, powders at an average of 99.92 percent. EEStor said this puts it on the path toward meeting its goals for energy storage.

Its not the big announcement that EEStor has proved their permitivity but I guess this is significant? Or is this just fluff?

Daniel Neumansky
Alameda CA

It is very significant...
Now if I can only figure out what it means...

EVnewbie said:

It is very significant...
Now if I can only figure out what it means...

Click to expand...

I believe it means they have the potential to make their claimed near-perfect electrical insulator from this pure material, which is all that their concept is based on.

The better an insulator you have, the more voltage you can accumulate between your capacitor plates without having a bolt of lightning arc though it. And more voltage is more energy...

I am as excited by this as I am skeptical, which is to say very much so. Not that I can qualify their concept or that I think their significant backers are not smart, but because of the track record of promising technologies like this. It would be great if these were applicable to eBikes, affordable, and made batteries obsolete. I hope they succeed.

This is amusing...
"News, Reviews and Discussion of EEStor Inc. "
http://theeestory.com/

Folks hiring private investigators... Snoopy pics of the front and back on the EEStor premises...

tks
Lock

Hi XIONGYAN. Welcome to ES

So, you're following the threads on that TheEEStory site?

Like when ee-tom says to Schneibster under "How Ferroelectricity Works":
http://theeestory.com/topics/61
"near Curie point the saturation curve (P vs E) is very variable since material is near phase transition. So if you ask me what its like, I can give you the quantitative P values where it saturates, because I know the polarisation of the ferroelectric and paraelectric states."

and
"The max energy storage is thus clearly determined by the polarisation of these two states - known and given earlier on this thread. (Perhaps I did not explicitly say but from the nice 1957 IBM paper the paraelectric (cubic) phase polarisation is 0). "

...then he goes off with Christine about "ionic bonding"...


I dunno... I'm likin' what the Schneibster is sayin'. I think.

tks
Lock

I'd ignore that, Lock. I smell a spammer...

hehe... Mighta been pulling a leg there Link
Still, if XIONGYAN was up on his ceramics and material sciences... With all the speculation about EEStor it's interesting to see these science brains delving into the possibilities..."their" way.
tks
Lock