Various destructive cell test videos. Lots of fire :)

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Various destructive cell test videos. Lots of fire :)

Post by liveforphysics » Mar 31 2010 11:52pm

***EDIT***
I took the best 10 seconds or so from each video, and made a highlights vid. Enjoy!



I've conducted some harsh tests on various battery types.

When a vehicle crashes and crushes a battery, or when a battery pack shorts, or when a charger malfunctions, or a cell dies causing the others to become over-charged, or various other problems that Murphy manages to throw at us, it's a good idea to know what a battery is capable of doing.

This is very good to see for the folks out there using Lithium Polymer LiCo based batteries. They can shoot a wall of high temperature flames a pretty impressive distance if treated improperly. The camera and my face got a taste of them 1st hand, and it's all on video. :)

The Headways 10Ah cells were extremely difficult to cause a flame venting event. I guess if you had some terrible luck, like a car-wreck with something burning near them to heat them enough, you might be able to trigger this event, but it's very unlikely. No amount of punctureing, crushing, smashing could get flames from a headways cell, but prolonged overcharge combined with a very long time with the heatgun was able to cause them to vent flame impressively.

All these videos were filmed in 1080p, and converted to 720p during editing, and should be available on youtube in 720p HD if you select HD, otherwise they will play in normal crap youtube resolution.

Here is the introduction to my cell test videos, showing the various cells and tools to be used in the tests.


LiFePO4
Original headways Hacksaw video. Boreing to watch, mostly educational about LiFePO4 cell design.


LiFePO4
New Headways cell puncture/crush test video.


LiFePO4
New Headways thermal test video.



LiCo "LiPoly" "LiPo"
5Ah Turnigy over-charged.


LiCo "LiPoly" "LiPo"
2x3Ah LiPo cells from a MacBookPro laptop battery. This video is excellent.


LiCo "LiPoly" "LiPo"
1.5Ah Nintendo DS LiPo cell. Puncture test. The cell only gets mildly warm.




I've got 5 more videos to upload still... I'm just tired of editing and uploading HD video, which is a fairly slow process.

Enjoy!
Last edited by liveforphysics on Apr 03 2010 3:46am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Various destructive cell test videos. Lots of fire :)

Post by liveforphysics » Apr 01 2010 12:08am

LiCo 18650 cell, "Li-Ion"

Puncture and crush test.



LiPo puncture test. First shooting with crossbow, then stabbing with razor knife repeatedly.



More vids to be added here.

**EDIT**

More vids :)

This one is the first cell to actaully have an explosion! And I never would have expected so much from such a little cell!



Here is some brutal 18650 testing. Massive over charge at a 5C rate. Massive heating. Finally a torch to make it go off, which it does in fantastic fashion. :)




More vids :)

This is the water test video for Doc. :)




Here is some extensive lipo thermal testing, including an Oxy/Acetylene torch. Results were big surprize for me.




LiPo compression and abrasion testing:

Last edited by liveforphysics on Apr 03 2010 2:54am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Various destructive cell test videos. Lots of fire :)

Post by full-throttle » Apr 01 2010 1:15am

Educational entertainment. Great stuff!

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Re: Various destructive cell test videos. Lots of fire :)

Post by Hyena » Apr 01 2010 5:38am

Awesome videos man, nice work.

You're the only guy I know who can have a lipo cell blow up in his face and laugh about it and think it's cool :lol:
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Re: Various destructive cell test videos. Lots of fire :)

Post by liveforphysics » Apr 01 2010 5:53am

Hyena wrote:Awesome videos man, nice work.

You're the only guy I know who can have a lipo cell blow up in his face and laugh about it and think it's cool :lol:

Fire is like a warm breeze to me. ;)
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Re: Various destructive cell test videos. Lots of fire :)

Post by liveforphysics » Apr 01 2010 5:58am

Doc reminded me to try cutting open a LiPo cell and dumping it under water. This is a test I will do tomorrow.


I've also got some abrasive tests to do on LiPo cells.


Does anyone have any other tests they want to see performed?
I have all the common types of cells, and the tools/means to make pretty much any test you could wish to see possible.
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Re: Various destructive cell test videos. Lots of fire :)

Post by Ypedal » Apr 01 2010 7:49am

That was awsome viewing !!!.. thanks ! :D
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Re: Various destructive cell test videos. Lots of fire :)

Post by liveforphysics » Apr 01 2010 8:03am

Ypedal wrote:That was awsome viewing !!!.. thanks ! :D

My pleasure :)
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Re: Various destructive cell test videos. Lots of fire :)

Post by icecube57 » Apr 01 2010 8:25am

I like how in one of the videos you hear that damn dog barking and also a helicopter. Make sure ATF isnt at your residence getting ready to issue a search warrant for explosives.

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Re: Various destructive cell test videos. Lots of fire :)

Post by Ykick » Apr 01 2010 8:39am

Crush, kill, destroy! Great info to see in practice.

Thank you!!!
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Re: Various destructive cell test videos. Lots of fire :)

Post by number1cruncher » Apr 01 2010 8:48am

My two questions/suggestions:

1) What would happen if you directly plugged a 5AH Turnigy pack into a 120V AC receptacle?

2) What would happen if you used EXTREME pressure? I'm thinking trash compactor, hydraulic press or some other means that exerts a lot of pressure.

I assume that you would not do anything that you do not feel comfortable doing. This kinda reminds me of my 8-12 year age range when I was a pretty decent pyromaniac. I was really interested in how you could pour nail polish remover on water and it would still burn. Until I burned my sister's bathroom beyond recognition. :shock: My wife always asks where my parents were when I was doing this kinda crap.

Be careful, have fun! Maybe prepare a written statement for the authorities......
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Re: Various destructive cell test videos. Lots of fire :)

Post by liveforphysics » Apr 01 2010 8:56am

number1cruncher wrote:My two questions/suggestions:

1) What would happen if you directly plugged a 5AH Turnigy pack into a 120V AC receptacle?
I've done it. Instantly pops the cell tabs like a fusible link. This is the same result if you short a LiPo cell. Just 1 little click/snap sound, and the cell tab snaps and becomes an open circuit. A really small high Ri cell with big wide tabs might have different results though. I will take a look to see what I've got.
number1cruncher wrote: 2) What would happen if you used EXTREME pressure? I'm thinking trash compactor, hydraulic press or some other means that exerts a lot of pressure.
This sounds like a great test, and I happen to have a 100 ton press handy, so I will setup the camera and film crushing a fully charged LiPo cell between some blocks of steel untl it's tissue paper thin, or hopefully it bursts into flames. :) The videos where the cells explode into flames are so much more fun. :)
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Re: Various destructive cell test videos. Lots of fire :)

Post by oldhaq » Apr 01 2010 9:08am

Great to see the comparison.
Thanks LFP for putting yourself in the firing line, got some singed hairs eh?
Makes me even less worried charging lifepo4 unattended overnight, though the charger would be more dangerous than the battery.
liveforphysics wrote:Does anyone have any other tests they want to see performed?.
for the dump test try a mixture of water, salt and/or graphite powder. Also you could try dripping copper sulphate or silver ink used to make circuit boards into them.
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Re: Various destructive cell test videos. Lots of fire :)

Post by AussieJester » Apr 01 2010 9:29am

Luke...with these new lipos whats your opinion on carefully piercing puffed packs resealing and re-using? Have you got any there that you could perhaps try this with? I went through my 8 fukzored packs and found 2 that don't have any 0v cells. I have one on the battery medic now balancing the cells to 3.8 volts, ill do the other tomorrow then same pierce the cells compressing the packs between boards in a vice when i do, then i'll re-seal them with a dab of hot glue and kevlar tape, strap them up tight and charge them to 4.15 with the meanwell out on the concrete see how they go, ill have to rig something up to discharge them at a reasonable rate and see how well they stay balanced....ill try to cycle them throughout the weekend and see how they hold up. I pierced both of the lipos (11.1v turnigys) that Matt.P gave me to run the linear actuator one cell died in one completely the other is still balanced and charged. Ill hae a camera handy anywayz so if we see smoke and flames ill capture :-)

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Re: Various destructive cell test videos. Lots of fire :)

Post by Doctorbass » Apr 01 2010 11:08am

Luke, these test are very "instructive" ! :mrgreen: Thanks.

I just wonder.. : it is great to test and torture these cells.. but we also SHOULD know more details about these cells!

ex: their state of charge!!

I wonder if you could takle 3 identical cells and do the exact same test with them except that :
one would have 100% SOC, another at 50% SOC and the last at 10% SOC

I think that would give us many answers!!! :wink:

Also.. did you remember the guy with that powerfull BLENDER??? :twisted:

Puting a 100% SOC LIPO into a blender would be nice!!

All your tests are very complete and have diversity.. i think that adding crushing LIPO vs SOC and the BLender test would make your test 100% complete! :wink:

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Re: Various destructive cell test videos. Lots of fire :)

Post by scoot » Apr 01 2010 11:17am

Luke... I truly look forward to watching these videos when I get a moment. But I immediately picked up on your potential vapor exposure from the lipoly test you mentioned.

Not to be a neagtive nancy, but I would strongly caution you to avoid any future exposure what so ever to the Lipoly fumes. It is my understanding that they emit hydrolfloric acid fumes when they combust... one of the deadliest types of exposures one can encounter. While I don't know precisely what the actual exposure level would/could be in that situation, I do know for a fact how potentially destructive to body tissues and organs it is, and in some cases it can kill with relatively small exposures either to lungs or even skin contact. I know this because I am a chemist that deals with HF on a fairly regular basis. So please take extreme care if you repeat these fun experiments. :?

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Re: Various destructive cell test videos. Lots of fire :)

Post by Hyena » Apr 01 2010 3:55pm

liveforphysics wrote: I happen to have a 100 ton press handy
Of course you do, who doesn't ?! You never know when terminators are going to come after you :P

Hitting one lightly with a grinder or sander would be good, to simulate dropping a bike and dragging it along the road. Alternatively, you could tie one to a plank of wood and tow it behind your bike dragging along the ground
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Re: Various destructive cell test videos. Lots of fire :)

Post by AussieJester » Apr 01 2010 7:15pm

Hyena wrote:
Of course you do, who doesn't ?! You never know when terminators are going to come after you :P
Damn it, milk out my nose, gotta stop eating breakfast when reading ES ...

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Re: Various destructive cell test videos. Lots of fire :)

Post by v_tach » Apr 02 2010 12:35am

scoot wrote:Luke... I truly look forward to watching these videos when I get a moment. But I immediately picked up on your potential vapor exposure from the lipoly test you mentioned.

Not to be a neagtive nancy, but I would strongly caution you to avoid any future exposure what so ever to the Lipoly fumes. It is my understanding that they emit hydrolfloric acid fumes when they combust... one of the deadliest types of exposures one can encounter. While I don't know precisely what the actual exposure level would/could be in that situation, I do know for a fact how potentially destructive to body tissues and organs it is, and in some cases it can kill with relatively small exposures either to lungs or even skin contact. I know this because I am a chemist that deals with HF on a fairly regular basis. So please take extreme care if you repeat these fun experiments. :?
The fumes can also be very destructive to your corneas even with relatively small exposures.

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Re: Various destructive cell test videos. Lots of fire :)

Post by liveforphysics » Apr 02 2010 1:03am

Ended up sleeping right through until 20mins before my shift started again tonight. :( No more tests today, but I do still have a few videos I can edit and post. Nothing too exciting though, some 18650 battery over charge testing, and a LiPo cell test that was AWESOME, but the damn camera ran out of space on the mem card like 30second before it blew... :(

I just looked in the folder of raw vids, 31GB of data. Shooting in 1080p gobbles up memory like a fat-kid with cake.

Post-editing out all the non-active parts in the videos, it's maybe 2GB of useful footage out of 31GB filmed.

scoot wrote:Luke... I truly look forward to watching these videos when I get a moment. But I immediately picked up on your potential vapor exposure from the lipoly test you mentioned.

Not to be a neagtive nancy, but I would strongly caution you to avoid any future exposure what so ever to the Lipoly fumes. It is my understanding that they emit hydrolfloric acid fumes when they combust... one of the deadliest types of exposures one can encounter. While I don't know precisely what the actual exposure level would/could be in that situation, I do know for a fact how potentially destructive to body tissues and organs it is, and in some cases it can kill with relatively small exposures either to lungs or even skin contact. I know this because I am a chemist that deals with HF on a fairly regular basis. So please take extreme care if you repeat these fun experiments. :?


I've got a bottle of 70% fumeing HF that is used for an experiment to drill tempered glass that can't be mecanially drilled (it kinda worked). I also wipe down the edges of glass with it on the non-visible edges that will be bonded with silicone when I make aquariums. The etched surface forms a very strong bond to silicone.

I did not know HF fumes would be part of the emmited gasses. Thank you kindly for the heads-up on that. HF is gnarly stuff that I would rather not have in my lungs. I wonder if this might be related to why my face feels kinda scalely and sunburn-ish today (or maybe just the flames hitting it).
Hyena wrote:
liveforphysics wrote: I happen to have a 100 ton press handy
Of course you do, who doesn't ?! You never know when terminators are going to come after you :P

Hitting one lightly with a grinder or sander would be good, to simulate dropping a bike and dragging it along the road. Alternatively, you could tie one to a plank of wood and tow it behind your bike dragging along the ground
Terminators stay the hell away from dads shop. They see the mangled bull-dozers and escavators and other massive heavy equipment all broken-up and know they don't want any of that action. ;) (my dad has a welding bussiness that does heavy equipment repair.)


I'm 100% going to do some abrasion tests on the LiPo cells. I will do the dragging a weighted cell around the ground test, as well as a test where I tie my civic to a tree with a tow-strap, do a 100mph 4th gear burn-out, and have my dad feed the cell into the area where the spinning tire contacts the ground. That should simulate a pretty high speed wreck with about 600lbs of pressure. Then perhaps zip-tie one down to a board, and start chopping it with the 10hp chop-saw and see what happens. That should give 3 wide ranges of abrasion safety testing. :)
v_tach wrote: The fumes can also be very destructive to your corneas even with relatively small exposures.
I value my vision a lot. Thank you for the heads-up on that. :)
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Re: Various destructive cell test videos. Lots of fire :)

Post by liveforphysics » Apr 02 2010 12:45pm

Completed my tests today. :)

Crush test and hammer test extreme abrasion test.

Stab and put into water, saltwater, then pour HNO3 (nitric acid) onto it test.

Extreme thermal tests on 4 types of cells.

Most important, I finally got the big bang out of a cell that I had been wanting!
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Re: Various destructive cell test videos. Lots of fire :)

Post by v_tach » Apr 02 2010 3:39pm

I gotta tell ya Luke, any personal danger aside, I'm jealous your having so much fun with it all. Keep it up (and be relatively safe).

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Re: Various destructive cell test videos. Lots of fire :)

Post by AussieJester » Apr 03 2010 2:23am

Comment you made in my worklog-->
liveforphysics wrote:If you haven't all ready, you may not want to toast all those LiPo cells that saw higher voltages.

I managed to get 3 complete 22v packs together Luke...all cells were severely puffed so i went ahead and broke
one of your rules ie. piecred the cell..I did this right on the seam, i placed the whole pack between two pieces
of board in the bench vice applied slight pressure while battery medic was attached made a slit in the individual cells ~5mm long right on the seam, once the 'gas' was released and the cell was normal size again i placed a dollop of hot glue on it and folded over the edging of the cell to seal it again. No fluid came out of the slit, like it did on the 11.1v puffed cells i did this to previously. I have had 3 packs balancing with the Battery Medic all cells have hit ~3.7 v (down from the lowest amongst them 4.5v I will charge them up to 4.15v and run them on the bike a few times while stationary (and out of the enclosure) at high speed to drain them and then recharge shall do this a few times while monitoring the pack see how it goes. If they all stay balanced i will make a call as to whether i will use them on the bike or put them aside to use in the Trex-600 RC Chopper i plan to buy in the very near future when my bike build is complete...

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Re: Various destructive cell test videos. Lots of fire :)

Post by cell_man » Apr 03 2010 2:30am

Good Work Luke as ever Luke :D

I can't bloody see the vids even though I've managed to get TOR working :? The pic of the burnt out lipo was very nice and I like the way the DMM and Icharger were left close enough to get well singed for dramatic effect :mrgreen:
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Re: Various destructive cell test videos. Lots of fire :)

Post by liveforphysics » Apr 03 2010 2:58am

4 new vids are up!

They are the last 4 vids in the second post of this thread on the first page.

LiPo in water, saltwater, and Nitric Acid

Extreme 18650 abuse testing, over charge and thermal.

Other cell thermal testing. etc
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