How-To: Meanwell 63-84V CV/CC Charger

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
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Re: How-To: Meanwell 63-84V CV/CC Charger

Post by NeilP » Mar 05 2011 9:13pm

Hi Amamda
yes, I had see that and it was going to be one of the mods, I have read all that thread you refer to (Switch Mode PSU Mod thread). Will look at the board and the schematic and see which is collector and emmiter when i get the boards out.
Rather than removing Q5 and linking the collector - emmiter holes on the board, I did wonder about attaching flying leads to the transistor legs and running them to a simple switch, so the permanent fan on can be enabled/disabled, just put a switch across C-E rather than a hard link.

Other mods were going to be :
SVR1 switchable between two values to give 38 volt (running iCharger) and 41.5 volt for direct charging
R37 SVR2 resistor chain also switchable between two values to give two current limit values, relating to the two different voltages.

Seem to remember my present R33 is 330 Ohm, so the value of R37 SVR2 for one current limit was around 2k..(.combined 282 Ohm) and 7k to give 315 Ohm. giving current limits of 9.4 amp at 36 volt and 8.4 amp at 41.5 volt. If I use a 4PDT switch for this, I can switch bot PSU at once, giving instant switching between voltage and current limit.
May add a CC/CV board in future from ttpacks when they become available ..again switchable in/out to use when I have the two PSU's in series ( 2 x 41.5) to act as direct 20s pack charger
Last edited by NeilP on Jun 21 2011 7:19am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How-To: Meanwell 63-84V CV/CC Charger

Post by Kingfish » May 12 2011 2:53pm

Update

For the past 11 months I have been using the Meanwell assembly as previously described with satisfaction for the configuration of which it was intended: Reasonable recharge times for Commuter and Cross-Country configurations.

However this year I am planning on going farther and faster for Cross-Country, and this may entail twice the number of batteries over last year. The spec prior was 15S12P = 63V @ 60Ah; expect this year to be close to 63V @ 120Ah. Well, simple math says this will take twice as long to charge. I decided to see if the charger assembly could be improved. :idea:

To lend a bit of perspective, when I first acquired the assembly and applied initial mods, the rate of charge from a nearly depleted battery was as:
  • Starting: 52.5V @ 7:45PM (0:00)
  • Ending: 63V @ 5:15AM (9:30)
We knew something was profoundly wrong with this setup, and after the road trip corrections were made (as noted at the start of this thread) to essentially cut that time in half. :)

When I originally bought the units I had planned on using this in the 84V configuration, and well now it escapes me why I bought Qty-3 of the SP-320, however I ended up with one spare. In another thread I did a quick study on the efficiency of the assembly and noted it was still not putting out the intended wattage. Today I decided to apply a bit more diligence, and to see what – if any – effect could be had by adding the 3rd SP-320 unit in parallel. Herein are the results:

Image

Comments:
  • As the Battery pack (15S3P) reaches near the terminal voltage I noted that at 62.5V the charger assembly was pulling 4.5A (about 540 Watts). I am not sure how this affects the overall function but it is a curious result.
  • As the voltage approached 63V the current rapidly began to drop below 4A, and because of this trend, reaching the terminal voltage takes quite a bit of time relative to the rest of the charging cycle. Example: It took 15 minutes to drop 0.1V to reach 63.1V, the current is down to 2.0A, although the charger assembly is noticeably quieter.
  • When they reached 1.7A there was a profound audible change as each unit independently tuned their fan rotations out of sync. With the current now down below 1.2A it is taking forever (relatively speaking) to reach 63.2V, though upon arrival the maelstrom of fans is eerily quiet.
  • It took 1.5 hours to go from 58.3V to 63.0, and yet it takes another 45 minutes to squeeze the last 0.2V! The quick conclusion is that we need another governing device: Set the assembly to a higher voltage and let her rip, though use another device to manage the cutoff/conditioning period. Regardless, I am dubious that adding the 3rd SP-320 enhanced the charging performance beyond contributing to the din of operation.
  • With that, I shall do another test in the reverse wherein I shall use only one SP-320 in series with the S-350 to determine if the “paralleling SP-320s is additive to the overall current output” theory is a bust.
Other notes: I was surprised to discover all the three A/C legs pulled current. Perhaps my low-tech methods are flawed, although I recorded the following:
GND = 0.04A; could be field leakage from the adjacent leg, and N = 0.1A less than L of which I did not expect.

Curiously concerned, KF
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Kinaye MotorSports
* Primary ride: 2WD Disc 9C 2806-equiv / Dual Lyen 12FET / 20S7P LiPo.
* Epics: Going to California: 2011 8)
* 50-mph, 101, 10k-Club. 12,527 miles-to-date, 7037 as 2WD.

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Re: How-To: Meanwell 63-84V CV/CC Charger

Post by Kingfish » May 12 2011 7:45pm

Addendum

Upon reflection, I had difficulty understanding why the current measurements came out the way they did, so I drew up a little schematic to explain to myself how and why. There’s a slight flaw in my spreadsheet, however the bottom-line remains unchanged.

Image
  • Point-1: Total A/C current was measured.
  • Point-2: S-350 current was measured. This is incorrect: The measurement here is the entire SP-320 subassembly current.
  • Point-3: SP-320 (2nd in line, designated as “B”)
  • Point-4: SP-320 (3rd in line, designated as “C”)
Redoing the math:
If we presume that the 3.01A erroneously assigned to the S-350 unit was instead the total SP subassembly then it is clear that the S-350 unit consistently pulls about 1.5A (180W). Still well below the rated current. :wink:

In the earlier measurement at Point-3 where the value was 0.15A, I presume that the “B” unit never engaged, leaving the “A” unit to pull the load. When we added the “C” unit and placed a load onto it, the load could be split between B & C, without A carrying any. Regardless, none of these units are operating at rated currents.

:?: Why? :?:

Second Test

I went digging around and found my other battery pack, the one I strap on if I know I’m going 100 miles etc. This pack is 15S4P, and it still had a good charge on it since the New Year, though there was enough off the top for a quick test of the theory.

Image

Just imagine the schematic above with the SP-320 units B & C disconnected. Made the inital measurements without a load and all was fine. As soon as I connected the battery pack the SP-320 (Unit-A) fan was off on a tear! The S-350 unit doesn’t have a fan; the cover is removed permanently. I had enough time to make the loaded measurements – but just barely, beginning with the total A/C current of the assembly. The battery was at 62.3V. By the time I got back to checking the total A/C current it had already dropped to 3.3A – indicating to me that the pack had already reached 63V and was now in the final conditioning phase. 8)

The behavior from this point forward was not at all like the previous test; the assembly continued to push hard to charge the pack and aggressively dropped the current. I noted at 0.54A that the fan had finally slowed down – maybe 15-20 minutes since charging began, and five minutes later I shut the whole process down as the fan turned to a whisper with the current drawing little more than 0.36A.

Therefore, I must conclude that paralleling Meanwell PSUs to create additive current does not pan out, and in fact may work against the individual sense circuitry to bring about a quick and resolute end to the charging cycle. :(

This brings me to my next hypothesis:
I no longer care about the thrift of my charger when the utility of the concept is an impediment to the goal and ultimate personal economy, the cost of which is measured as “my Time”. This leaves me free to entertain replacement in whatever form can be had.

I am still keen on Meanwell; they have a great product line and to date have served me well enough considering the pseudoscience of their employment in the present configuration (paralleled; that I can assure will change). However I am affirmed that placing these devices in series does work, though maybe not to the fullest extent by reasons yet to be discovered. Nonetheless, I am going to bite on this lead and configure anew with just two units, money no-object. It’s now a question about weight, size, speed, quality, balance, and cutoff – with alarm optional. That’s what I want, and I’m going to get it before I leave on my summer trek. :)

Stay tuned. KF
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Kinaye MotorSports
* Primary ride: 2WD Disc 9C 2806-equiv / Dual Lyen 12FET / 20S7P LiPo.
* Epics: Going to California: 2011 8)
* 50-mph, 101, 10k-Club. 12,527 miles-to-date, 7037 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed.
The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

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Re: How-To: Meanwell 63-84V CV/CC Charger

Post by dbaker » May 12 2011 8:22pm

What are your summer trek plans?

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Re: How-To: Meanwell 63-84V CV/CC Charger

Post by Kingfish » May 12 2011 9:46pm

dbaker wrote:What are your summer trek plans?
Hi db :)

I haven’t started the thread yet, but it will be similar to the Going to California 2010 thread – except this time I plan to do the entire journey by ebike.

In brief, I start in Redmond – Washington, head south along the backbone of the Cascades (Hwy 97), pick up Hwy 89 near Shasta, follow that to Tahoe, pick up Hwy 88 and head west over the Sierras to Jackson, where again I head south along the old Forty-Niner Hwy down to Fresno. For you see it was there that in my youth I leapt outta the ground like a durn weed, pulled up my gypsy roots and started wandering this old Earth.

Once I am good and watered-up with my ol’ pals and kinfolk I’ll head due west and pick up Hwy 1 in Watsonville, then head all the way north along the Coast Hwy, through San Francisco, Mendocino, The Redwoods, Eureka, Coos Bay, and on up till I can hang a reggie over to Portland. From there it’s the STP in reverse back to Redmond. In all, about 2000 miles.

That to me would be a satisfying holiday. I don’t think there’s room for the guitar though. Harmonica maybe. Jew’s Harp for sure. “The Plan” is mainly to just be “on the road”. I expect to camp overnight at RV parks possibly up to a handful of times, though motels figure big when they can be had; I like a soft cozy bed as well as anyone else.

~KF 8)
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Kinaye MotorSports
* Primary ride: 2WD Disc 9C 2806-equiv / Dual Lyen 12FET / 20S7P LiPo.
* Epics: Going to California: 2011 8)
* 50-mph, 101, 10k-Club. 12,527 miles-to-date, 7037 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed.
The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

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Re: How-To: Meanwell 63-84V CV/CC Charger

Post by NeilP » May 13 2011 12:29am

Back to the Meanwells

Seems to me there are basic flaws in how you have them setup, and how you are measuring

First off, you have nearly 1000w capacity with the 3 in parallel. You then go and stick a 350 w unit in series with the parallel output, limiting the output of the 3 in parallel to that of the single 350.
The idea of putting them in parallel is to give greater current, then you have stuck it in series with the 350, so the max current through the parallel string is never going to be more than what is going through the 350. The NEW one in parallel will achieve nothing

Secondly, you are measuring input current. Measure the output current instead. I have two Meanwell S -350-48 in parallel, and the only way to get them to load share nicely is by setting them up monitoring output current of the two simultaneously while under load and tweak the output voltage of one unit till load between them is balanced.
You may find if you have not modified the voltage adjustment pot on the front for a multiturn unit , then it is almost impossible to balance the current. This is because the adjustment is just too course and inprecise with the single turn trimmer pot. I have 16 turn cermet pots on mine and even using them, a quarter turn or less either way, can be enough to push the voltage of one unit up enough to make it take all or almost all the load.

So, monitor output current, drop the new supply, it is not helping. In fact having even two in parallel with the one 350 is a bit of a waste. Try two series strings in parallel
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Re: How-To: Meanwell 63-84V CV/CC Charger

Post by Kingfish » May 13 2011 10:28am

Alright Neil, let’s discuss:
We need to make some basic clarifications here…
  • Neither the Meanwell S-350 or the SP-320 are rated or certified for parallel operation. For some reason this became a large red flag when I went digging for alternatives.
  • The S-350 isn’t being driven to full potential. We can see that with the input current in comparison with the spec. Given the amount of time it takes to charge at voltage, we can also ascertain that the unit is underperforming, significantly – possible greater than 50%. Imagine it’s pulling 1.5A @ 120V; how does 180W of VAC magically translate to 350W at 63V? What have I missed?
  • Adding the 3rd SP unit confirms that I did not have bad SP units; that the performance was exactly the same. In addition, I was able to glean in detail the performance during the final 0.2V of the charging cycle. The final test with just one SP unit confirms there is contention between the paralleled units in the sense circuitry during the termination phase. Do you agree?
  • With regard to the SP-320 & Imbalance, I can see and accept your point easily; that seems quite reasonable, and would explain the artifacts of the observation. But then consider that if the stock POT is so delicate and difficult to bring into balance – then the entire assembly comes into question and is hardly road-worthy.
In fact Neil, you have stated clearly a trait that should have been mentioned back when people first began tinkering with these components: It takes a skilled technician with professional equipment to properly dial these devices into balance. I could not ask for any better validation. You Sir deserve a gold star! (sincerely) In other words, the modest tools at my disposal, with the resolution and measurement that I have, it is still not enough to bring these simple low-cost devices into balance; that we shouldn’t be paralleling these devices anyway - unless someone can come up with a “unified” sense circuit like in the HRPG, PSP, RCP, RSP models, and so forth. :)

Two series string in parallel:
That is a good idea. It is ultimately the direction I decided to go, except that instead of buying another S-350, thus having four units to lug around, I went the other direction because space is not my friend when travelling cross-country, which profoundly is the reason... the impetus for the investigation: To seek the reduction of weight & volume, yet enhance performance.

I already know that my battery array is large enough to handle a 2kWh fire hose; that’s like 1C to my Commuter pack. The challenge is at the other end of the telescope: Maximizing the Source. Therefore I began looking at putting together two matched units in series that could operate within the 15-20A household breaker thresholds. Interestingly enough – there is a performance/consumption leap between the 320/350W range and 600W, with choices in-between being less advantageous.

These are the other units I reviewed:
  • HRP-600: Weight = 1.5kg; the best of the lot. Considering I am replacing three units weighing 1.1kg each (or potentially adding a 4th) I am actually coming out weighing less by grams and with less complexity. There is no support for current-sharing, though that is not my application; however it does CC like the S-350. Meets and exceeds the performance specifications of the newer SP series, and with better efficiency. Price begins around $168/unit; not the cheapest alternative, though everything else is positive.
  • HRPG-600: 1.58kg. Current-sharing up to 2400W, CC, good specs on par with the HRP. Price begins around $185.
  • PSP-600: 1.9kg. Current-sharing up to 2400W, CC, specs less whelming than the HRP, although the price is about $145.
  • SE-600: Didn’t seem much different than the SP series. Weight = 2.1kg. No CC. Price begins around $110.
  • SPV-600: Weight = 1.9kg. Not yet available.
Others I looked at were farther out of spec and more costly. There was a 500W unit but it was a power-sucking mad-heifer. A 450W unit was in the same bloat. Clones abound, but so does my fear of them. Lastly, the competition couldn’t compare on price.

Can you guess which way I went? :)
~KF
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Kinaye MotorSports
* Primary ride: 2WD Disc 9C 2806-equiv / Dual Lyen 12FET / 20S7P LiPo.
* Epics: Going to California: 2011 8)
* 50-mph, 101, 10k-Club. 12,527 miles-to-date, 7037 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed.
The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

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Re: How-To: Meanwell 63-84V CV/CC Charger

Post by NeilP » May 13 2011 3:19pm

Kingfish wrote:
  • Neither the Meanwell S-350 or the SP-320 are rated or certified for parallel operation.
Agreed...The bigger ones are..at least some of them...the 1.5 or 3 kw versions certainly do have a parallel facility
Kingfish wrote: [*]The S-350 isn’t being driven to full potential. We can see that with the input current in comparison with the spec. Given the amount of time it takes to charge at voltage, we can also ascertain that the unit is underperforming, significantly – possible greater than 50%. Imagine it’s pulling 1.5A @ 120V; how does 180W of VAC magically translate to 350W at 63V? What have I missed?
I am thinking maybe be what you have missed, and I also missed, ( and this is possibly borne out by what you say later), is that maybe the current limit is one of the 320 units that you have in parallel.

You next say
Kingfish wrote: [*]Adding the 3rd SP unit confirms that I did not have bad SP units; that the performance was exactly the same.
If adding the third unit made no difference..then maybe you only have one of the 320's taking al the load and that is the one limiting the current

Kingfish wrote: In addition, I was able to glean in detail the performance during the final 0.2V of the charging cycle. The final test with just one SP unit confirms there is contention between the paralleled units in the sense circuitry during the termination phase. Do you agree?

Yes, I have noticed that with two S-350's in parallel, they only stay in balance and equally sharing the load at a particular voltage...above and below this they do drift out...but not by enough to be too concerned


Kingfish wrote:[*]With regard to the SP-320 & Imbalance, I can see and accept your point easily; that seems quite reasonable, and would explain the artifacts of the observation. But then consider that if the stock POT is so delicate and difficult to bring into balance – then the entire assembly comes into question and is hardly road-worthy. [/list]

Ah...I was not implying that the stock pot is delicate, it is just that the adjustment is very coarse because it is less than one turn...maybe 270 to 300 degrees so it is therefore difficult to adjust accurately, so setting an accurate voltage and matching it to another can be tricky. Consider then a 16 turn pot, ...same value 2k or 5k whatever..but adjustable over 16 turns...far finer control is possible.

I have two meanwells...each with 4 pots all 16 turn cermets. I replaced both the stock VR1 and also added SVR2 the current limit pot. The reason I have 4...they are switchable, so I can have two preset voltage limits, and two preset current limits. My set up consists of two S-350-48's 8 cermet 16 turn trimmers, and two 4 pole change over switches, so i can switch between parallel and series, and also switch between two voltage/current settings.... 41.5 volts and 8.5 amps and 36 volt and 9.7 amps. When I have it switched to 41 volts, I also switch them in series for bulk charging direct to the pack. Or in parallel a the lower voltage to run the charger for a balance charge
Kingfish wrote:In fact Neil, you have stated clearly a trait that should have been mentioned back when people first began tinkering with these components: It takes a skilled technician with professional equipment to properly dial these devices into balance.
have to disagree there. Correct that they are not designed for parallel operation, but if I can get them running balanced in parallel, anyone can. With the 16 turn pots and two cheap 10amp DVM's I can easily get mine in balance. I bought 4 of the el cheapo DVm's from e-bay for $0.99 . They are only 10 amp, but for my 350's 10 amp is fine. All I did first off was ran all 4 of them in series, with my pack and the Meanwells, and chose two that gave he same current reading. The put them in sereis with each parallel PSU output, load up the pair of them with a battery, and then adjust the voltage of one or the other to equalise the current between the two

Kingfish wrote: I could not ask for any better validation. You Sir deserve a gold star! (sincerely)


Very kind, but hardly deserved.

Kingfish wrote:In other words, the modest tools at my disposal, with the resolution and measurement that I have, it is still not enough to bring these simple low-cost devices into balance;


get a few of those cheap DVM's, they are good enough for this job..

Kingfish wrote: unless someone can come up with a “unified” sense circuit like in the HRPG, PSP, RCP, RSP models, and so forth. :)


Now, that is the real answer.


Much earlier in this thread, you mentioned using the thermistor and the pot mod for the fan control. Far better is bridging the collector-emmiter of the Q5 transistor. I put a switch across mine, so I have always or full auto.


Well which ever way you decide to go with those other supplies, let us know.

It is a shame you are limited over there to what is it? 110 or 120volt AC in the household supply

Regards

Neil
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Re: How-To: Meanwell 63-84V CV/CC Charger

Post by dbaker » May 13 2011 8:36pm


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Re: How-To: Meanwell 63-84V CV/CC Charger

Post by Kingfish » May 14 2011 12:43am

Could you be a bit more definitive?

~ KF :?
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* Epics: Going to California: 2011 8)
* 50-mph, 101, 10k-Club. 12,527 miles-to-date, 7037 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
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Re: How-To: Meanwell 63-84V CV/CC Charger

Post by NeilP » May 14 2011 12:45am

No, those are no use at all. They are AC out, not DC
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Re: How-To: Meanwell 63-84V CV/CC Charger

Post by Kingfish » May 14 2011 1:14pm

Hi db
I see it now, thank you! This looks like a neat unit; the specs pretty dang good all around, and the weight is very considerate at 1.2 kg. The sticky-wicket is that when we add up two of these to create the required voltage we’ll have a potential to pull about 25A @ 100VAC, or 22.2A @ 115VAC (converted to the Meanwell units), and that my friend would be over the 20A breaker limit. For this reason I did not consider 1000W or greater PSUs, instead opting for 600W (with two in series), and even that is a bit on the edge. Although it could be perfect for your setup! :)

The factors to consider:
  • RV parks in the USA traditionally offer 30A or 50A service at 110-120VAC.
  • Motel Rooms: There should be 20A service in the bathroom.
  • In the home or apartment, the bathroom and laundry should be rated at 20A (which I suppose pretty much explains why 1875W hair dryers are common).
Forgot to note: I prefer the way the fan is mounted at the end of the unit and pulling air through lengthwise :) as opposed the S and SP units pulling bottom-to-top, inhibiting direct stacking.

Good stuff, KF
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Kinaye MotorSports
* Primary ride: 2WD Disc 9C 2806-equiv / Dual Lyen 12FET / 20S7P LiPo.
* Epics: Going to California: 2011 8)
* 50-mph, 101, 10k-Club. 12,527 miles-to-date, 7037 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed.
The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

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Re: How-To: Meanwell 63-84V CV/CC Charger

Post by dbaker » May 14 2011 3:12pm

I think these are intended to be used multiple units in a 1U high rack, hot swap-able. I think they have some control features since they would need to work well in parallel. Maybe they would be able to control power? I have several but have not had time to play with them. Andreyum(sp?) on ES is using one. Search for Chreokee PSU on ES.

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Re: How-To: Meanwell 63-84V CV/CC Charger

Post by spinningmagnets » May 14 2011 3:27pm

I hope this isn't too OT, but...the original meanwell-mod thread is very long, with the best nuggets scattered about, and this thread seems to be more complete and compact as a reference. icecube57 was kind enough to return my PM, and here it is (noobs be aware that MWs and their clones seem to have minor variations over time, last years MW is not exactly identical to this years model):
(edit: OK, purchased a 48V 7.3A 350W MW, or what seems to be a rather good meanwell clone from an ebay vender called e_lightning, I can't find that ebay vendor anymore, but these can occasionally be found for under $50).

I swapped out the TH1 thermal resistor that controls the fan and I installed a 1000ohm 1/4w resistor. This keeps the fan always running... but the fans speed is in direct relation to the voltage you are running the supply at. Lower the voltage the lower the speed. The Higher the Voltage the Higher the Speed.

I replaced the svr1 which is right by the LED and output with a blue 10k 15turn trim pot. This will allow you to tune to around 17-18v up to 56-58v with great precision.

I removed and replace r37 and r33 with two 1200ohm resistors on top of the board and I paralleled another 2200ohm resistor across those two on the bottom of the board. I used 1/2w but thats what I had. It supposed to come out to 470ohm but there is something else in the circuit thats dropping it down to an even 400ohms when I check it with my Vm. Everyone else seems to put a trimp pot across r33/r37. The higher the value the higher the current limit is. It almost seems linear to wattage. Again I was using the resistors I had avaliable.

So probably in short to make it simple for you remove r33 and r37 and drop 500 and 1200 ohm resistor. This higher value will probably reduce your output wattage a bit to around 300-350w but i will also put it in a safer operating range close to the rating of the power supply.

With these 3 mods in my configuration its locked in at around 10A.
edit: Anyone who upgrades to LiPo is usually interested in performance, so it appears the most common LiPo pack voltages are around 44V and 66V. Kingfish's thread is about modding a meanwell to charge a pack in the 72V range (actual range 15S up to 20S), and icecube57's post (which I have just added here) is for the 48V range (actual range is 5S up to 14S).

Two common 6S bricks in series makes 12S, and if charging to 4.1V per cell, that would be 49.2V. An 18S pack charged to 4.1V per cell would be 73.8V

The cheapest plug-and-play LiPo charging set-up I recommend is a $40 25A power supply (metal case + fan), and a $40 Turnigy 10A LiPo charger for 6S. Its adequate for daily bulk charging if you don't mind the daily parallel/series wiring harness swapping for 12S/18S, and its even more cumbersome for the occasional individual balance charge of each brick. Adding a second Turnigy charger to speed-up occasional 12S balance charging is only another $40.

When bulk-charging an 18S / 66V LiPo pack, Kingfish's Meanwell mod is the cheapest option, and also eliminates the annoying daily series/parallel harness swapping.
Last edited by spinningmagnets on May 30 2011 4:59pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: How-To: Meanwell 63-84V CV/CC Charger

Post by Kingfish » May 19 2011 3:00am

Meanwell HRP-600

Pals and compatriots –
I received two units of this series yesterday; the 24 and 48V versions. Tonight I had the opportunity to hook these devices up and review them.
I wish to chronicle the timeline here rather than in the review mainly because I had already provided a similar timeline for the SP/S assembly. Some information may be repeated here from the review.

Disclaimer: These HRP-600 units when combined in series still create a 63-84V charging assembly, therefore qualify as worthy of discussion under this here thread <nods>.
  • HRP-600 24 + 48 = 63.3V PSU. No Load = 0.20A @ 121.1 VAC
  • HRP-600-48: Tested Range = 39.1 to 58.2 VDC. Set to 39.1.
  • HRP-600-24: Tested Range = 20.6 to 30.49 VDC. Set to 24.2.
  • After assembly into series, fine tuning was required to reach 63.3 V. No Load now = 0.18A @ 120.8 VAC
Image
Amp meter connected to VAC.

Charging:
At 9:00 PM sharp, 15S6P LiPo pack was at 58.0V. No mods were made to the HRP units; they were assembled and put to use right out of the box (sans voltage adjustments). The charger was put on the pack, the voltage jumped to 58.8V (monitoring per CA), assembly current goes to 8.1A @ 118.8 VAC. Fans take off loudly relative to the SP/S assembly. For the first brief minute there was some strange whining, and possibly buzzing, but it went away. The first ½ hour was loud – however the pack was most definitely charging! I moved the amp meter around a bit and received a better reading; it was actually pulling 8.7A. The charging cable was 14 AWG that I had lying around; I thought it would make for a good experiment to see how it handled the current: It became very warm but not hot. Note to self: Use 10 AWG for in the field.

After about ½ hour as the pack voltage reached 62.8 VDC (with the charge still on) the assembly was pulling 9 Amps; I noted this figure was slowly climbing as charging progressed, though I do not know why. Back-calculating, the assembly is using about 1 kW of power which is about double the SP/S assembly. The power usage is better than I had hoped, and not at double the maximum limit for both units. The 48V unit was definitely warmer than the 24V unit in one spot where the heat sink must have been, although it was by no means hot. Except for the fan noise, the process is going smoothly.

At 9:35 PM there is a marked change as the pack hits 62.9V! The fans begin to quaver and downwind off the full speed, although it is still quite loud. The current begins to drop off at a linear rate below 9A, then 8A…

At 9:42 PM the fans make a dramatic change in speed and drop to about 30%; it’s well above a whisper though welcomed nonetheless. The assembly current is now dropping below 5A.

At 9:51 PM the fans stop! The CA says the battery pack is at 63.4V, with the assembly current down to 2.75A. I elect to disconnect the charger; doing so the pack voltage drops to 63.1V and the assembly current goes to a no load state – drawing 0.19A. I decide to reconnect the charger and wait out to see what happens if we leave it alone. The pack is essentially charged at this point, less than one hour which is truly quite impressive.

About 10:25 PM I check the pack and the CA says it’s 63.5V. The assembly current is now pulling less than 0.5A and still dropping. Pulled the plug to check the real pack voltage – and it’s 63.5V! Shite I’ve never taken my pack this high before, however a quick calculation says the cell average is about 4.233 V so I shall not worry; we are done. :mrgreen:

I wish to conclude that this HRP series is most excellent for charging LiPos. The caveat, as I stated in the review is that we need to monitor when the assembly goes into trickle mode so we can pull the plug. By this estimate, I expect my charging times will be reduced by at least 50%. I am most pleased.

Maybe next year I’ll upgrade to the HRP-1000. Whatcha think? :twisted:

Huntin’ fer a Pepsi machine, KF
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Kinaye MotorSports
* Primary ride: 2WD Disc 9C 2806-equiv / Dual Lyen 12FET / 20S7P LiPo.
* Epics: Going to California: 2011 8)
* 50-mph, 101, 10k-Club. 12,527 miles-to-date, 7037 as 2WD.

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Re: How-To: Meanwell 63-84V CV/CC Charger

Post by NeilP » May 19 2011 4:48am

Did you measure output current at all?

It is the current going in to the pack I am concerned with rather than what the charge assembly is taking from the mains. To me, that figure is immaterial, I want to know the charge current relative to pack capacity and C rating
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Re: How-To: Meanwell 63-84V CV/CC Charger

Post by dbaker » May 19 2011 4:58am

Very nice, KF :mrgreen: Do you have a link for the vendor you used? Do unplug the Pepsi machine & plug in your charger at the 7-11?

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Re: How-To: Meanwell 63-84V CV/CC Charger

Post by Kingfish » May 19 2011 9:06am

Neil: Output current = No; based on the VAC usage it could never be more than 1 kW, though I suspect it was at least 600W. My pack is 15S6P Zippy FlightMax, each brick rated at 15/2C and 5000mAh. It can handle it. The Amp Meter that I use for some reason will not measure DC amps, which I admit is odd. If you know of a device that can do it, I’m all ears friend :)

An educated guess, based upon the efficiency of the series (88-89%) suggests it could have been 955W. Given that the pack went from 58.0V to 63.1V in 51 minutes has me to believe the efficiency is valid. I checked the pack this morning and it is still holding at 63.5V.

Db: I listed the supplier in the Review. Though here it is again my friend: Power Supply Emporium. They had the most competitive pricing stateside and didn’t waste time processing; it was shipped out right away.

I did look at other models though once we step outside the SP/S world things become quite a bit more expensive which encourages shopping around. BTW – yesterday (a day after receiving the PSUs) I received a really well-produced thick catalog from PSE loaded with spec sheets of Meanwell and other manufacturers. This is one is for the library, or coffee table depending on your creature comforts 8)

Pepsi machine reference: If you read my thread on Going to California 2010 (in my sig), the first day I ran out of power after facing a stiff headwind about a mile outside my first town. There was a supermarket at the edge, so I headed there and immediately began hunting down the AC outlets. Found a Pepsi machine and plugged in next to it. I was there for 90 minutes and yet only gained enough power from the gimpy (and with the debased mod) SP/S charging assembly to pick up another 20 miles where I had to repeat the process at a stop-&-go type gas station. Thus developed the initial angst to address this pesky and (IMM) flawed assembly :evil: ~ grrrr & double-grrrr!

I think that today, we have done that. Honestly, I can’t gush enough how pleased I am: The HRP-600 does it correctly right out of the box!

Cheers, KF
PS - Don't take my word for it: Please experiment with other models! :)
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Kinaye MotorSports
* Primary ride: 2WD Disc 9C 2806-equiv / Dual Lyen 12FET / 20S7P LiPo.
* Epics: Going to California: 2011 8)
* 50-mph, 101, 10k-Club. 12,527 miles-to-date, 7037 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
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Re: How-To: Meanwell 63-84V CV/CC Charger

Post by NeilP » May 19 2011 4:33pm

Kingfish wrote: The Amp Meter that I use for some reason will not measure DC amps, which I admit is odd. If you know of a device that can do it, I’m all ears friend :)
All the cheap DVM's I have ever owned can measure DC amps, usually up to 10 amps..some 20...even the cheap $0.99 e-vbay ones from China do 10 amps DC.

As far as I was aware the wattage rating of these units is based on their outputs, so a 48 volt unit supplying 10 amps would be a 480Watt supplyat that rate it may be drawing 500 Watts from the mains, it may be drawing 600 and be very efficient...but irrelevant, I want to know what current is flowing into my pack...if I have a 5Ah pack and I want to charge it at 2C, i want to see 10 amps on my meter, not faff around with the supply input power, work out charger efficiency PFC to find out what current goes in to my pack. Rather like going to the fuel pumps with your car and measuring how much power it takes to pump the petrol to the car, then finding out the specs of the pump to work out how much fuel you put in the car...yes possible...but very long winded
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Re: How-To: Meanwell 63-84V CV/CC Charger

Post by heathyoung » May 19 2011 6:03pm

There are DC clamp meters as well, they are just more expensive (well the accurate ones are anyway).

For opportunity charging - I use a piggyback plug so anything else can plug in as well. Fortunatly 240V 10A is common here in Aus, with most places running at *least* a 15A breaker and 2.5mm2 to the points (dunno what that is in AWG) you can pull some pretty serious amps without issues.
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Re: How-To: Meanwell 63-84V CV/CC Charger

Post by Kingfish » May 19 2011 7:52pm

The meter I have now is a Fluke Corporation 322 AC Clamp Meter; it does not measure DC current - although I thought it did when I bought it. Sadly a decent DC clamp meter begins around $330 USD; 3X the cost of my 322-unit. It's not a hi-pri right now. I am happy as a clam with what I've got; it charges fast. Neil, yer on yer own to figure it out with the data that I've provided :wink:

Awesome day for a ride! KF
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Kinaye MotorSports
* Primary ride: 2WD Disc 9C 2806-equiv / Dual Lyen 12FET / 20S7P LiPo.
* Epics: Going to California: 2011 8)
* 50-mph, 101, 10k-Club. 12,527 miles-to-date, 7037 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
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Re: How-To: Meanwell 63-84V CV/CC Charger

Post by NeilP » May 19 2011 9:29pm

Kingfish wrote:The meter I have now is a Fluke Corporation 322 AC Clamp Meter; it does not measure DC current - although I thought it did when I bought it. Sadly a decent DC clamp meter begins around $330 USD; 3X the cost of my 322-unit. It's not a hi-pri right now.


Well invest $0.99 on ebay and th cost of a battery and you'll have your self a usable DC meter//although not Clamp on, for less than $5

Kingfish wrote:color=#400080]Neil[/color], yer on yer own to figure it out with the data that I've provided :wink:
Well for my needs I do not need to, just thought that if you were doing that ( measuring DC amps) then it would have been easier for you in the earlier experiments to balance the parallel set of Meanwells. I happily charge at 9 amp and 83 volt from my pair of S-350-48's and have no need for a bigger charger. it would have been interesting to see the figures if you had them, but that is all :lol:
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Re: How-To: Meanwell 63-84V CV/CC Charger

Post by Hillhater » May 19 2011 10:31pm

$25 HK Wattmeter will tell you all you need to know on charging, Max -min Volts, amps, watts, Ahrs, Whrs etc etc :roll:
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Re: How-To: Meanwell 63-84V CV/CC Charger

Post by Kingfish » May 19 2011 11:53pm

Hillhater, I checked HK and the max voltage any watt meter is 60V… unless I missed one :roll:

OK Neil, spill buddy – tell us where to find these uber-thrifty DC meters! Give us the link; I’m dying to know :lol:

Re-charged:
I made one tiny adjustment to the output voltage and upped it by 0.3V to 63.6 so that when the fans shut off the pack will be at 63.3V (my target). Tonight the pack took 1:40 hrs to charge from 54.9 to 63.3V after a 45 mile commute into Seattle and back. Also upgraded the charge wires from 14 AWG to 10 AWG; they were barely warm throughout the high part of the cycle.

~KF
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Kinaye MotorSports
* Primary ride: 2WD Disc 9C 2806-equiv / Dual Lyen 12FET / 20S7P LiPo.
* Epics: Going to California: 2011 8)
* 50-mph, 101, 10k-Club. 12,527 miles-to-date, 7037 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed.
The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

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