where to find PSI cells?

HI everyone,

does someone knows where it is possible to buy PSI cells at the moment? I know rechargeablelithiumpower.com used to sell them, but after few email requesting an quotation for these cells I don't have any repply... maybe I don't have the right address where to send my quote request..?

Anyway I would like to know if there is any other distributor of these cells in US or (preferably) Canada?

I also was told there was a new model of PSI cell delivering 14 Ah for the same volume of a 10 Ah cell, is this true?

Thanks!

Tony

Tony,

10Ah and 12Ah 40138 cells are available. There was a 14Ah pilot run of 40138 sized cells last year but they've not been released for sale so aren't available to me.

I'm happy to supply cells - I'm sorry that I missed your request.

Thanks,
Andy

Yep, Andy at Lithiumpower, is a well respected vender with us ebikers.

Had my pack for almost 3 years and well over 1000 charge cycles, still work good but the range is suffering a bit after daily use without a BMS most of the time.

Here' a picture of my pack

AndyH said:

Tony,

10Ah and 12Ah 40138 cells are available.

I'm happy to supply cells - I'm sorry that I missed your request.

Thanks,
Andy

Click to expand...

umm.....why then have they been removed from your website's product lineup for sometime now ?? :?
http://www.rechargeablelithiumpower...s-c-21.html?osCsid=g7cp1cm3e87r3suq1p46niiet3

The store software I'm using gives me two options for 'out of stock' items - erase them completely from view, or let folks put them in their shopping cart then tell them they can't order them due to low stock. I'm not sure which is the lesser of the two evils.

Frankly, though, I started importing them specifically for this group - the cells were in demand but folks didn't want to order from the Far East. The cells have proven to be rock-solid reliable, but they are more expensive than Headway and advanced LiPo and demand has fallen off. I've let stocks fall because I'd rather work with fresh cells.

This leads to a question for you - what's more important to you - the relatively instant gratification of cells shipped immediately after ordering, or receiving fresh cells but having to wait for the special order from Taiwan?

Andy

Hi, i think cycle9.com still has some 10ah psi cells.

FYI:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=22317

THANK YOU
ANDY FOR providing us with this info.
Quality cells are mentioned on this forum no so often, that's why this thread is so important.
Most people are intereted in cheap LiFEpO like Headway but if they realized that QC reject rate for them is more than 30% they shoudl get scared, because what happens with 30% rejected? good question..
BUT THERE IS NUMBER OF PEOPLE INCLUDING ME INTERESTED IN HIGH QUALITY cells like PSI.
my grey BMI/LifeBatt cells are going very strong after 2 winter and 3 summers, stud terminal proofed itsef behoind the doubt, I found cells mechanically sturdy.
I understand white cell you are showing in FOR SALE thread are green cell wraped in white?
Or is it old grey cell?
MC

miro13car said:

THANK YOU
ANDY FOR providing us with this info.
Quality cells are mentioned on this forum no so often, that's why this thread is so important.
<snip>
I understand white cell you are showing in FOR SALE thread are green cell wraped in white?
Or is it old grey cell?
MC

Click to expand...

Miro,

You're welcome.

As for color - the answer hasn't changed from your other cell color thread - the color on the outside is only a single layer of shrink wrap. If you want to commission an order of cells you can have any color you want. You can even have them made that are grey and have labels on them if you want. And if you want to sell them, you can say they have anything inside that you wish!

(did I say that out loud?)

The cells are current production fresh cells from PSI - there's no "old" anything. There's not a chance in hell that I'd ever be interested in either embellishing cell capabilities, re-shrinking any "old grey cell"s, or working with anyone that would do either of these.

Andy

AndyH said:

miro13car said:

The cells are current production fresh cells from PSI - there's no "old" anything.

Andy

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

There is actually...they are"old technology". PSI cells use "old technology" when compared to the manufacturing methods used for the latest cells that are available.
That is not to say they are not good cells since they are a tried and tested design (even though they may not be the most recent or best performing cells to become available in recent times).

The only reason I know this (and a whole lot more) is that for the past week I have been working on a major project in Australia with the former sales manager from PSI. Many members of this forum I am sure will remember Raymond King. Raymond and myself flew interstate from our project last Thursday to attend a major conference on EV technology- http://www.evconference.com.au/
During the flight he related several interesting stories of his time with PSI selling cells to members on the ES forum. It was very interesting flight discussing the current state of the battery market and I learned a great deal about the PSI factory. Raymond was one of the former staff at PSI who was snapped up by management from LiFeTech Energy and now works with our company as sales manager/assistant to the President.

BMI said:

AndyH said:

miro13car said:

The cells are current production fresh cells from PSI - there's no "old" anything.

Andy

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

There is actually...they are"old technology". PSI cells use "old technology" when compared to the manufacturing methods used for the latest cells that are available.
That is not to say they are not good cells since they are a tried and tested design (even though they may not be the most recent or best performing cells to become available in recent times).

Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing, Armin.

The point that you missed was the suggestion that the current production PSI cells were somehow 're-shrink-wrapped' grey cells - which is absolutely NOT the case.

You do tell an unfortunate truth in your story, though, because much of the latest technology is about making cells LESS EXPENSIVE and in the case of some manufacturers LOWER PERFORMING in the process. (Look at the latest announcement from Don for the less expensive 40138 4C cells for example.) The EV industry is moving to less expensive cells - not moving to higher-performing packs. Look at the couple of shops that used to use PSI cells - with great success! - in their plug-in Prius batteries - but have moved to Thunder Sky because of price.

While it's true that a business succeeds or fails based on cash flow, and a very proven method of increasing cash flow is to reduce the cost of the product while selling at the original price (like BMI's move from PSI to Headway, for example), PSI is not in the business of making lower quality products to increase sales numbers.

Andy

You do tell an unfortunate truth in your story, though, because much of the latest technology is about making cells LESS EXPENSIVE and in the case of some manufacturers LOWER PERFORMING in the process. (Look at the latest announcement from Don for the less expensive 40138 4C cells for example.) The EV industry is moving to less expensive cells - not moving to higher-performing packs. Look at the couple of shops that used to use PSI cells - with great success! - in their plug-in Prius batteries - but have moved to Thunder Sky because of price.

While it's true that a business succeeds or fails based on cash flow, and a very proven method of increasing cash flow is to reduce the cost of the product while selling at the original price (like BMI's move from PSI to Headway, for example), PSI is not in the business of making lower quality products to increase sales numbers.

Don Quote:

Andy, we (LiFeBATT) made a typo on the Specs. for our 14Ah Cell : http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=22299 It is a 10C rated cell (not 4C) just to correct the facts. I have re-posted the original document which contained a typo and re-posted the Spec Sheet. Truth here is that LiFeBATT dissolved our relationship with LifeTech Energy over a year ago precisely because they went off-shore to Headway to have their Cells made in order to lower the price. I could say a lot more but that's enough for now. LiFeBATT could not support the lower priced cells due to a serious QC problem and that is why we made our decision to part company with LiFeTech among other reasons. We are now working with the original Scientist that developed the first PSI 40138 Cells.

Don

woo, woo! Let the great bullshit pissing contest continue (again).....................

Armin and Don, this is the Psi thread. Note carefully that Andy doesn't see the need to piss on your products. Ever wondered why that is? Maybe it's because he's an honest, decent sort, who knows that slagging off the competition at every opportunity loses more business than it gains.

I've said this a dozen times or more, but it bears repeating. A good product, at a good price, sells itself and doesn't need bullshit advertising. Your customers (us guys and girls on here) tend to know their stuff and can smell the rat of bullshit advertising spiel from a thousand paces.

Only replying on mention of my name. I have said nothing here other than to clarify previous posts Jeremy, so if you have a problem with it then I suggest you not try and diss the messenger and look at the message instead.

Don

Don,

I'm certainly not 'dissing the messenger', just reporting the way that competitors posting on threads specifically focussed on other products comes across to us humble consumers.

Like most, I relish the opportunity to get honest and truthful information on available products. Also, like most, I suspect, I can detect 'spoiler tactics' pretty easily, and have learned over the years to mistrust those that use them as a sales tactic.

Nothing personal here, Don, just a desire to try and filter bullshit from fact, for the collective good of all prospective battery purchasers. Your past posts have been proven, beyond any doubt, to be less than wholly factual, hence my focus on stuff you post about other people's products.

Jeremy

Jeremy, I don't post on other people's products if you care to examine my latest posts? Once I used to but no more1 I only respond to inquiries that have direct mention of my name or LiFeBATT, and only when it is something that needs a correction. After all, LiFeBATT began with the original Cell having been made by PSI, so we do have a DNA to respect. But things do change in this industry, and I have been always honest in trying to set the facts straight. If that is something you translate as offensive, then I can only apologize for telling the truth.

If you read the post, I did not ever comment on PSI, as far as their credibility is concerned. Please do not mix me up with Armin. I have been following the rules of Etiquette as I know them. Please try to understand I have no reason to BS you.

Don

OK Don, I realised that you just screwed up the tags when you quoted Andy, so what looks to all of us here as your comment is really a cut'n'paste from Andy, heading up your post. Might be an idea to clean up the tags at the start of the quote.

Jeremy

Jeremy Harris said:

OK Don, I realised that you just screwed up the tags when you quoted Andy, so what looks to all of us here as your comment is really a cut'n'paste from Andy, heading up your post. Might be an idea to clean up the tags at the start of the quote.

Jeremy

Click to expand...

Jeremy,

Sorry, about that, I did correct the tag and let me say this - PSI was our original mfg. and we hold them in high esteem. They still make a great product which has stood the test of time. In fact it was their 10Ah Cell that LifeBATT submitted to Sandia Labs for testing in the beginning. All I will say is that times have changed, and now we have partnered with the Scientist, who created that original PSI Cell. We will be soon offering a range of both cylindrical and prismatic cells for next year designed by the same inventor of the original 10Ah PSI Cell.

In the Cylindrical format we will have a 12.5Ah, 14Ah, and an 18Ah (40138) Format offering. In the Prismatic line we will offer two Cells either 18Ah or 20Ah in the same format which is unique in the market.

Don

Battboy said:

AndyH said:

You do tell an unfortunate truth in your story, though, because much of the latest technology is about making cells LESS EXPENSIVE and in the case of some manufacturers LOWER PERFORMING in the process. (Look at the latest announcement from Don for the less expensive 40138 4C cells for example.) The EV industry is moving to less expensive cells - not moving to higher-performing packs. Look at the couple of shops that used to use PSI cells - with great success! - in their plug-in Prius batteries - but have moved to Thunder Sky because of price.

While it's true that a business succeeds or fails based on cash flow, and a very proven method of increasing cash flow is to reduce the cost of the product while selling at the original price (like BMI's move from PSI to Headway, for example), PSI is not in the business of making lower quality products to increase sales numbers.

Click to expand...

Andy, we (LiFeBATT) made a typo on the Specs. for our 14Ah Cell : http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=22299 It is a 10C rated cell (not 4C) just to correct the facts. I have re-posted the original document which contained a typo and re-posted the Spec Sheet. Truth here is that LiFeBATT dissolved our relationship with LifeTech Energy over a year ago precisely because they went off-shore to Headway to have their Cells made in order to lower the price. I could say a lot more but that's enough for now. LiFeBATT could not support the lower priced cells due to a serious QC problem and that is why we made our decision to part company with LiFeTech among other reasons. We are now working with the original Scientist that developed the first PSI 40138 Cells.

Don

Click to expand...

With respect, Don, this is the 4C product to which I referred:

Battboy said:

However we are coming out with a new 12.5Ah 40138 Cell which will be more along the Continuous Discharge of 40A, but we won't have definitive test results until the end of this month. When we have that I will post it here and on our website. These Cells should be ideal for e-bike applications. These Packs will be available in December.

DH

Click to expand...

Believe me, Don and Armin, one can find entirely too much info on your twin-birth and later divorce on this forum. While I certainly hope both of you can find a way to build your own lives as individuals, I'm frankly not interested in getting in the middle of yet another he-said/she-said urinary Olympiad. What scientist moved where or what sales person moved has nothing to do with PSI's products any more than Phostech pixie dust has anything to do with yours.

Be well, but please be somewhere else.

Andy

i WILL STAY IN THE FOR SALE NEW ITEMS CATEGORY ANDY AS SHOULD YOU.

DON

*
Was in a pissy mood. I apologize for the comment. :?

I don't care what C rate the batteries are.

Decent Range = 20ah. Any 5C battery (100amps) is more power than me and 99% of ebikers will ever need.

Ya'll are wasting your time trying to import these batteries with high C rates. They are too expensive to justify for a utilitarian purpose.

Case in point; I just spent $1500 building a brand new ebike from scratch. Not including the battery.

My friend bought a 125cc scooter used for $900. It's in perfect condition, and out performs most small cars.

I feel like I've wasted my money.

auraslip said:

I don't care what C rate the batteries are.

Decent Range = 20ah. Any 5C battery (100amps) is more power than me and 99% of ebikers will ever need.

Ya'll are wasting your time trying to import these batteries with high C rates. They are too expensive to justify for a utilitarian purpose.

Case in point; I just spent $1500 building a brand new ebike from scratch. Not including the battery.

My friend bought a 125cc scooter used for $900. It's in perfect condition, and out performs most small cars.

I feel like I've wasted my money.

Click to expand...

There are different sets of requirements, auraslip. You're running a human-electric hybrid and have the benefits of physical exercise and cleaner air when you're riding, plus the experience and satisfaction that come from creating something new. It's hard to put a price on that, with or without a battery.

My 5000W scooter should be a good match for the TS cells inside - limited to 1.6C max - yet while summer performance is as expected, spring and fall suffers, and during the winter the cells will sag to the 2.1V LVC right off the charger. My diesel VW draws more than 600A for the first start of the day. Plug-in hybrid cars move fairly high currents in and out of the pack repeatedly. Racing, heavy bikes, colder weather reserves, and hills all put more stress on a pack. If one buys a low-C rate cell for one of these applications they'll likely be disappointed when the overworked cells start to play 'dead bug'.

Andy

auraslip said:

I don't care what C rate the batteries are.

Decent Range = 20ah. Any 5C battery (100amps) is more power than me and 99% of ebikers will ever need.

Ya'll are wasting your time trying to import these batteries with high C rates. They are too expensive to justify for a utilitarian purpose.

Case in point; I just spent $1500 building a brand new ebike from scratch. Not including the battery.

My friend bought a 125cc scooter used for $900. It's in perfect condition, and out performs most small cars.

I feel like I've wasted my money.

Click to expand...

How much does your friend pay for a tank of terror-related gas?

How much does your friend pay for a tank of terror-related gas?

Click to expand...

I dunno. The tank can't be more than 5 gallons. So $15 at the most? At 50mpg, or wtvr scooters get, that is a tiny price.

And also scooter parts pale in comparison to the price of bicycle parts in america. It's BS, but bike parts are WAAAAAAAAyyyyyyy overpriced.