Yet another, no solder, paralell lipos thread

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Yet another, no solder, paralell lipos thread

Post by dogman dan » Mar 01, 2011 6:29 pm

My first thread on how to paralell some lipo used a method allowing a temporary connection. It used less connectors than making paralell adaptors, but still uses a lot of andersons.

Here is another way, more permanent, but still using the crimp sleeves. Here you see the black wire done, and the crimp sleeves found in a hardware store electrical section. Basicly you stuff all three wires into the sleeve, and crimp, then fold the crimp over by crimping agian 90 degrees from the first crimp
CIMG0223.JPG
CIMG0223.JPG (69.11 KiB) Viewed 3439 times
For the balance wires, I run the pack with em disconnected, and use something like this, when I do want to balance them. You buy two of the jst connectors, and cut in half, then connect in a y, to make a paralell charging adapter.
CIMG0219.JPG
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Another pic, while doing the red side.
CIMG0225.JPG
CIMG0225.JPG (66.81 KiB) Viewed 3445 times
You can take the left over 4mm connector, and make an anderson adapter if you want to connect with andersons, or just use the 4mm connectors.

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Re: Yet another, no solder, paralell lipos thread

Post by liveforphysics » Mar 01, 2011 6:36 pm

It's so good to see you as a LiPo fiend now Dogman. :)

Warms the heart, and makes me even prouder of you. :)
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Re: Yet another, no solder, paralell lipos thread

Post by dogman dan » Mar 01, 2011 6:56 pm

8) Can warm a bed too.
CIMG0226.JPG
I shoulda just got a fast charger, but I just wanted to have enough to run the heat race, and the main without recharging. Turns out to be quite a few packs.

The charging setup, 300 watts, using one S350 12v meanwell, two 150w chargers, shown with two paralelled packs. This is 10s 10 ah, but the same thing works for 12s 10 ah ( 6s paralell harness though) . Shown in the non balancing hookup. To balance you'd also connect the balance paralell adaptor to both packs in the paralelled pair.
CIMG0227.JPG
One more time, for the noobs, a shopping list for everything in these pics.

4 lipo bricks, 4 pair anderson connectors, 3/4" heat shrink tube, 4 jst extension wires (5s for 5s packs, 6s for 6s packs) , electric tape, crimp sleeves, one crimping tool, two chargers, one 350 watt power supply, one AC cord to connect to the power supply.

To run on the bike, a few more connectors for making a series connection harness, some type of low voltage monitor device, and perhaps wire to reach the controller.

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Re: Yet another, no solder, paralell lipos thread

Post by liveforphysics » Mar 01, 2011 7:42 pm

The LiPo fu has grown strong with you Dogman. :)

I love that picture with them on your bed. That's a hot date! :)


Here is a little pic of my shop floor right now. lol
Image


And a close-up of those 4s hardcase packs that I don't think anyone will mind. :)
Image
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Re: Yet another, no solder, paralell lipos thread

Post by texaspyro » Mar 01, 2011 7:54 pm

We're still waiting for vids of the red wire to black wire discharge test :twisted:

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Re: Yet another, no solder, paralell lipos thread

Post by itchynackers » Mar 01, 2011 8:03 pm

What happens if you need to check individual cells for balancing amongst each 5s or 6s pack? Wouldn't a 4mm connector allow this as opposed to a crimped (permanent) connection?
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Re: Yet another, no solder, paralell lipos thread

Post by liveforphysics » Mar 01, 2011 8:12 pm

Whoa! It removed the LiPo picture with a nice back-drop.

WTF, I didn't know imageshack censors things that weren't even nudity...
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Re: Yet another, no solder, paralell lipos thread

Post by spinningmagnets » Mar 01, 2011 8:28 pm

"Sometimes, a picture is worth a kilo-word"...I'll probably get a program like "grabit" (unless a better one is recommended), so if an image is on the web and shows up on my screen, I can make a copy to use in an explanation. Prevention of linking to a public image is just silly...I would have guessed image-shack would consider it good advertising.

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Re: Yet another, no solder, paralell lipos thread

Post by liveforphysics » Mar 01, 2011 10:01 pm

Here we go. :)


Image
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Re: Yet another, no solder, paralell lipos thread

Post by Takemehome » Mar 01, 2011 10:11 pm

I bet both have the same effect on you. :lol:
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Re: Yet another, no solder, paralell lipos thread

Post by def215 » Mar 01, 2011 10:53 pm

jesus christ thats a lot of lipo! i think i need more! :mrgreen: so far this is what i have:
Image
well i have 4 of these packs. time to start saving for more...lol.
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Re: Yet another, no solder, paralell lipos thread

Post by dogman dan » Mar 02, 2011 6:34 am

I'd read you bought the world supply of those hardcase packs. 8) Somehow, your bed looks softer than mine.

Someday, I may even get the charge card paid off for what I bought since last summer. I just kept having this nightmare where I was at the race, recharging for the main event, and the charger goes poof. So I wanted a big pile of batts.

Back to the thread subject. Answering itchyknackers question. I have permanently connected the power leads, but the balance leads are still seperate. This allows periodic checking to see if the pack needs balancing, and which cell if any needs individual balancing. If way off, you charge just that cell in the bad pack. If only a little off, you connect the jst balance paralell adapter and charge.

You could also paralell the balance wires permanent, but I like the idea of keeping the plugs intact at least, so you can check an individual pack.
Of course, you break in your lipo before cutting up stuff. No sending back packs with the wires cut.

My bad pack ratio just inproved. 26 packs, and only two stinkers.

Iv'e done the red to black discharge test on one of my 5s 20c packs. As LFP has said many times, the tabs act like a fuse. Now I have a new 4s pack. Thinking about running a bike light with the 1s pack that is left, if I can come up with a decent way to connect to a tab 1mm long. I'm thinking some kind of crimp, after scraping the plastic back.

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Re: Yet another, no solder, paralell lipos thread

Post by auraslip » Mar 02, 2011 11:04 am

I think maybe image shack understands just how sexy lipo can be to us :wink:
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Re: Yet another, no solder, paralell lipos thread

Post by liveforphysics » Mar 02, 2011 1:35 pm

dogman wrote:I'd read you bought the world supply of those hardcase packs. 8) Somehow, your bed looks softer than mine.
It's a very nice bed. Soft, but perky. :) I don't get much sleep on it though... 8) :mrgreen:
dogman wrote: Iv'e done the red to black discharge test on one of my 5s 20c packs. As LFP has said many times, the tabs act like a fuse. Now I have a new 4s pack. Thinking about running a bike light with the 1s pack that is left, if I can come up with a decent way to connect to a tab 1mm long. I'm thinking some kind of crimp, after scraping the plastic back.
I have a couple 5s and 6s packs that are now 2-3s packs from the old red-to-black myself.
I've fixed one using Zinc solder, but getting the tab that hot at the areas where it seals into the pouch caused the glue at the seam to melt and the pouch lost it's seal when the glue kinda boiled out of the crack there. I use it for a lighting pack sometimes.

The real excitement is the nano-tech cells doing a red-to-black test. Those tabs are about 3x thicker and about 2x wider. They don't pop like a fuse, they melted the soldered terminals off the 8awg wire to open the circuit.
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Re: Yet another, no solder, paralell lipos thread

Post by texaspyro » Mar 02, 2011 5:21 pm

liveforphysics wrote:[The real excitement is the nano-tech cells doing a red-to-black test. Those tabs are about 3x thicker and about 2x wider. They don't pop like a fuse, they melted the soldered terminals off the 8awg wire to open the circuit.
I guess that any fuse you can walk away from is a good fuse... unless I'm confused... I was around a 10,000V 2,000 amp fuse that blew once... that really rings your chimes.

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Re: Yet another, no solder, paralell lipos thread

Post by liveforphysics » Mar 02, 2011 5:27 pm

texaspyro wrote:
liveforphysics wrote:[The real excitement is the nano-tech cells doing a red-to-black test. Those tabs are about 3x thicker and about 2x wider. They don't pop like a fuse, they melted the soldered terminals off the 8awg wire to open the circuit.
I guess that any fuse you can walk away from is a good fuse... unless I'm confused... I was around a 10,000V 2,000 amp fuse that blew once... that really rings your chimes.

Yeah, that's because higher voltage fuses have a long path that fails to ensure the plasma arc breaks, and so before that breaks, they have a big long lightning flash inside, generally as long as at around half the body length of the fuse. With these voltages, you're lucky to get a 1cm plasma trail for a split second or so, so the volume of air heated, and hence the excitement of the event isn't that thrilling. :(

Maybe if you shorted a nano-tech pack with a big-ass inductor? So it would resonate as the arc-breaks it would flyback and keep re-striking it? It would need to be a REALLY big inductor though to have a resistance low enough while still having decent inductance though.
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Re: Yet another, no solder, paralell lipos thread

Post by itchynackers » Mar 02, 2011 7:56 pm

I had thought of ordering some of the 4s hard packs, but what kept holding me back was that I wouldn't be able to see if there was a puffy cell. Is this a concern for anyone using these, or are we just diagnosing with cellogs only?
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Re: Yet another, no solder, paralell lipos thread

Post by liveforphysics » Mar 02, 2011 8:42 pm

itchynackers wrote:I had thought of ordering some of the 4s hard packs, but what kept holding me back was that I wouldn't be able to see if there was a puffy cell. Is this a concern for anyone using these, or are we just diagnosing with cellogs only?

They are pretty snug in there, so if something puffed, that plastic case would have to bulge/deform or split for it to happen.
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Re: Yet another, no solder, paralell lipos thread

Post by dogman dan » Mar 03, 2011 7:17 am

Most likely you'd notice a lack of range first, then see a bulging pack later. The case might help a cell not puff. Aren't pouch cells happiest when squeezed hard? That's the purpose of the round cell cases from what I have read.

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Re: Yet another, no solder, paralell lipos thread

Post by liveforphysics » Mar 03, 2011 11:49 am

dogman wrote:Most likely you'd notice a lack of range first, then see a bulging pack later. The case might help a cell not puff. Aren't pouch cells happiest when squeezed hard? That's the purpose of the round cell cases from what I have read.

Yep. The tighter the layers are pushed together, the better they perform. If the vacuum seal is not lost on a cell, then if it's say 2" wide by 6" long, it's got 12 square inches on each side, so even if the vacuum is just -10psig, it's all ready got 120lbs of clamping force on it. But once they puff, you gotta get the gas out, and get the clamping load back mechanically (or, replace the pack if you're trying to be most safe).
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Re: Yet another, no solder, paralell lipos thread

Post by jmygann » Mar 03, 2011 12:07 pm

can a pack be un pluged from the charger and then plugged into the controller or switch ? maybe a diagram ?
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Re: Yet another, no solder, paralell lipos thread

Post by dogman dan » Mar 03, 2011 1:56 pm

Sooo many ways to do it.

Here is just one. Picture these two sets paralelled packs get charged on two chargers, or any of the other zillion ways to charge lipo. The two plugs are unplugged from the bike to charge.

Then the batteries are plugged into the series adapter shown which is part of the bike, the two long wires going to the controller.

No confusion, no Kentucky fried fingers, the connectors shown can only be plugged in correctly.

This photo shows one of the decent ways to connect a 12s or 10s pack to a series adapter for discharging.
CIMG0228.JPG
CIMG0228.JPG (67.36 KiB) Viewed 2611 times
Another pic, showing hooked up to discharge
CIMG0229.JPG
CIMG0229.JPG (68.41 KiB) Viewed 2611 times
For a 15s pack, you could just make the adapter bigger.

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Re: Yet another, no solder, paralell lipos thread

Post by Alan B » Mar 03, 2011 8:19 pm

I've been getting ready to do something like this paralleling for my 18S4P Lipo pack. I like to parallel the wires in a connector pin's crimp tube and avoid having extra crimping junctions in the circuit. As it turns out, crimping four wires together makes a bundle six gauges lower in number. So:

four 12 gauge wires make a 6 gauge wire (12-6)=6

four 10 gauges wires make a 4 gauge wire (10-6)=4

The Anderson SB-50 and PowerPole 75 will take up to 6 gauge wire. So they will accommodate four 12's. Since each 12 is carrying 1/4th the current (more or less) it is still pretty capable, and makes a very clean adapter with 4 into 1. This should be adequate for most ebike needs.

The battery side would remain the 4mm dual bullets that come standard. Those seem to work adequately, though they take a lot of damage if you let the cap charging arc hit them, the coatings are really thin. So make sure you have a precharge solution or use some other connector to take that damage.

If you want to use 10 gauge wire to maintain the Turnigy pack native wire size then you can use an SB-120 or PowerPole 120 which can take up to number 2 size wire. Then you can accommodate more than four wires into one, perhaps even six #10 wires will fit into the #2 pin socket...

I am considering five into one, four for load and one for charging. Probably have to use SB-120's, or perhaps I can just use four 12's and stuff a fifth smaller wire for the charging connector into the #6 pin. My plan is to leave the big connector hooked up during charging and have a smaller one to connect to, but one could also charge through the large connector. That would insure isolation during charging, so that might actually be the best setup. I am also designing a little pc board for paralleling the Turnigy JST-XH balance connectors and providing a DB-9 for the charging balance connection. So the Turnigy batteries would be completely stock in their connectors (4mm bullets and JST-XH balance leads).

I noted that the SB connectors are generally less costly than the corresponding PowerPoles, and slightly smaller. Powerwerx had pretty good prices, but I have not shopped around lately on that. The SB-50 was about four bucks and the SB-120 about six.

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Re: Yet another, no solder, paralell lipos thread

Post by jmygann » Mar 05, 2011 1:21 pm

how about a pic or diagram of the wiring when being charged ... bulk and balance ?

does a bulk charge mean the balance wires are not hooked up ?

dogman wrote:Sooo many ways to do it.

Here is just one. Picture these two sets paralelled packs get charged on two chargers, or any of the other zillion ways to charge lipo. The two plugs are unplugged from the bike to charge.

Then the batteries are plugged into the series adapter shown which is part of the bike, the two long wires going to the controller.

No confusion, no Kentucky fried fingers, the connectors shown can only be plugged in correctly.

This photo shows one of the decent ways to connect a 12s or 10s pack to a series adapter for discharging.
CIMG0228.JPG
Another pic, showing hooked up to discharge
CIMG0229.JPG
For a 15s pack, you could just make the adapter bigger.
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Re: Yet another, no solder, paralell lipos thread

Post by www.recumbents.com » Mar 05, 2011 1:35 pm

For charging diagrams, see: See: http://www.recumbents.com/wisil/e-bent/ ... torial.htm

Image

Here's the bulk charging solution but I have not gotten the charge controller to work yet.

Image



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