Valence Epoch System

R

RevDon

100 W
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
140
Location
New Olreans
I came across this advertised on Autoblog Green:
http://www.valence.com/products/epoch_overview.html
:shock: It looks impressive. I'll leave it to you techies to disect it, and report your findings, please :!:
 
Valence is top of the line stuff.
Unfortuantely, they have top of the line prices.

I dare you to get a price quote.

I don't think they will even talk to you unless they think you're a government agency.

The CAN bus battery management system is an interesting idea.
A CAN bus is a type of serial communication commonly used in automobiles and industrial equipment. You connect all the modules by a couple pairs of wires, and all the signals are sent digitally to a computer somewhere. If you have many cells, this simplifies the wiring.
 
After about a year of reading, I finally got around to becoming a member! :)

Valence claims $1 per watt-hour which is reasonable. Before I do the happy dance, when and were can I get small quantities of their batteries? I would love a 24V 40Ah / 1KW pack but I don't see them becoming available for the little guys for awhile. At least the LiFePO4 battery market is moving forward.
 
I keep hoping someone will someday realize the vast market that is the independent EV crowd. I did have a nice correspondance with the folks at Firefly, who actually gave me hope for recognition of our existance. We'll see. I know that they all have to cater to what they perceive as their best avenue of success, but am continually frutrated by their general ignrance.
 
After barely limping home from a cold 20 mile grocery getting trip on my e-max - even with two opportunity charges, I'm about finished with my adventure with EV's unless these new-technology batteries become available to us poor working-proles - and soon.

I'm not asking for a lot - just a reliable 30 mile range in the hilly terrain that I ride.

I'm tired of all this great technology being available only to globo-mega-corporate world or the military-industrial war machine...

I wish there was a big independent EV crowd, but we are a tiny minority. Most USAns barely know how to reset a circuit breaker in their house - much less build their own EV.
 
PJD said:
After barely limping home from a cold 20 mile grocery getting trip on my e-max - even with two opportunity charges, I'm about finished with my adventure with EV's unless these new-technology batteries become available to us poor working-proles - and soon.

I'm not asking for a lot - just a reliable 30 mile range in the hilly terrain that I ride.

I'm tired of all this great technology being available only to globo-mega-corporate world or the military-industrial war machine...

I wish there was a big independent EV crowd, but we are a tiny minority. Most USAns barely know how to reset a circuit breaker in their house - much less build their own EV.
Click to expand...

Please see my "Back at the Ranch" thread on the EV General Discussion page.

Don
 
But, back to the subject of Valence batteries.

I have always been confused why Valence would make what is supposed to be a drop-in substitute for standard-sized lead acid batteries, then market it strictly to select OEM manufacturers like Segway or the "defense" industry, but completely ignore marketing it to retailers like "Batteries Plus" automotive, or medical-mobility device sellers.

Something almost fishy about it.

Anyone tried to see if they could get Valence U-charge batteries through a Segway dealer?
 
Forget Valence. Stick to something that's available. A123 and Emoli's have a proven track record. The new LifeBatt large format cells will hopefully be good too. It will still be a big chunk of change for a Emax sized pack, but over the long run it should be less expensive than lead (and needing to use your car more).
 
For a replacement 48 volt pack in an e-max, I'd need 260 cells. Or 310 for a 60-volt pack. - Just doesn't seem practical.

I'll look up the contact for the valence batteries...
 
A couple years ago, I recall a factory quote for the cost of the U1's was about $650. And the original lead-acid battery charger can be used. So the U-charge batteries may be the least-cost of these expensive alternatives.

Now, if this Josh fellow would just return my phone calls or e-mails...
 
still no luck ? :(

I can post a link to this thread on the Power Assist group if you like .. ( or he may just be busy or on a business trip or MIA.. you never know.. )

I've contacted him before regarding NuVinci hubs and other things.. got a reply right away.. so it can be a timing thing... :?
 
PJD said:
A couple years ago, I recall a factory quote for the cost of the U1's was about $650. And the original lead-acid battery charger can be used. So the U-charge batteries may be the least-cost of these expensive alternatives.
...
Click to expand...

If that's true, then take back what I said about Valence being too expensive.
 
Hi Folks,

Josh from Runabout Cycles here, and we have had good experiences with Valence Batteries. I got in with Valence, about 5 years ago, by buying a 48 volt 50 amp hour K charge system, and it rocked, 60 lbs, and enough juice to propell me and my electric trike up Mt Washignton, with extra juice to boot!

Nowadays, we use the U1 Rt systems, a 24 volt, 40 amp hour unit, that matches up well, with our 35 amp max draw Cyclone centerdrive pedal assist system. We have about 15 units out there, and have had nothing but good reports back to us. We chose these for the saftey factor, and love em.

1,500 a pair seems expensive, I know, but with 2,000 cycles, a smooth discharge rate, 1/2 the weight of lead acid, and a military grade Battery managment system, well, you do get what you pay for.

Valence has been nice to our little start up company, and has had nice customer service too. We had to wait a while, when GM bought up everything, I think, but other than that, Great product.

I will post a few shots of our valence equiped 08 electric human hybrid trike for everyone soon, Happy trails, Josh K.

Here is a video, on you tube, near the end there are a couple of nice shots of our battery equipment that we have been using for a few years now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oJsBznry1o
 
Thank you and Welcome, Josh!

I have been looking for a publicly traded battery mfr... at three bucks a share, these guys might be ripe.

Here's the Valence PR relase:

Press Release Source: Valence Technology, Inc.


Valence Technology Premieres First Intelligent, Large-Format Lithium-Ion Battery System at EVS-23
Friday November 30, 9:00 am ET

56.jpg
Epoch(TM) Batteries Mark a New Era in Battery Technology for Electric and Hybrid Electric Vehicles and Other Motive and Back-up Energy Storage Applications


AUSTIN, Texas--(BUSINESS WIRE)--This weekend, thousands of the world’s experts, developers and enthusiasts in the electric transportation industry will be the first to see Valence Technology, Inc. (Nasdaq: VLNC - News) unveil the next era of large-format, lithium-ion battery technology at The International Electric Vehicle Symposium and Exposition (EVS-23) starting Sunday at the Anaheim Convention Center in Anaheim, Calif.
Source: Valence Technology, Inc.

Branded Epochâ„¢, Valence believes its new generation of phosphate-based lithium-ion battery systems will move the electric vehicle industry one step closer to the Holy Grail – finding a battery solution that is safe, intelligent, lasts longer and weighs less than outdated technologies being used today. Epoch batteries are equipped with an advanced management system that will monitor and adjust cell performance so battery packs will always operate at their optimum performance capacity. Epoch batteries present a safe, powerful and reliable energy solution designed to be low maintenance, cost competitive and environmentally friendly.

“By definition, ‘epoch’ means a period marked by radical changes and new developments,â€￾ said Robert L. Kanode, president and CEO of Valence. “That was our goal with this new suite of products – to provide the industry with a new level of power storage that changes the way customers approach the design and deployment of electric powered vehicles. Moreover, we wanted the Epoch brand to be more than a concept, so we made sure Valence had the sourcing capability, manufacturing capacity and start-to-finish infrastructure to produce systems now and in the future in commercial quantities.

“We believe the Epoch brand of battery systems will serve as the cornerstone of an era when lithium-ion battery chemistry used for large-format transportation and other motive and back-up storage applications is efficient, safe, reliable, powerful and widely-used,â€￾ continued Kanode. “As potential new clients see the benefits of Epoch brand-equipped delivery fleets, Valence could well set the standard for EV fleet vehicles in several European markets during 2008 and we would hope to see the same type of market traction and excitement in U.S. markets in the near future.â€￾

The Epoch brand of customizable battery packs will be available in 12.8 volt and 19.2 volt modules and will allow users scalability up to 390 KWh. Additional Epoch battery system benefits include a fail soft capability that will eliminate system failure and a life cycle comprised of more than 2000 charge cycles. Epoch branded battery products will also provide users a “greenâ€￾ alternative to environmentally contaminating lead-acid batteries.

The Epoch brand of batteries makes its debut Sunday at EVS-23, the world’s largest electric drive industry event that annually attracts more than 100 exhibitors and thousands of attendees. Valence will be showcasing its Epoch brand of batteries December 2-5 at Exhibit Area #657.

About Valence Technology, Inc.

Valence Technology developed and markets the industry’s first commercially available, safe, large-format family of lithium phosphate rechargeable batteries. Valence Technology holds an extensive, worldwide portfolio of issued and pending patents relating to its lithium phosphate rechargeable batteries. The company has its headquarters in Austin, Texas, and facilities in Las Vegas, Nevada, Mallusk, Northern Ireland and Suzhou, China. Valence is traded on the Nasdaq Capital Markets under the ticker symbol VLNC and can be found on the internet at http://www.valence.com.

Safe Harbor Statement

Some information included in this press release contains forward-looking statements, within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21E of the Securities Act of 1934. Such statements include information relating to business activities and project development. These statements can sometimes be identified by the use of forward-looking words such as “may,â€￾ “will,â€￾ “anticipate,â€￾ “estimate,â€￾ “except,â€￾ “scheduled,â€￾ or “intendâ€￾ and similar expressions. Such forward-looking information involves important risks and uncertainties that could significantly affect anticipated results in the future and, accordingly, such results may differ materially from those expressed in any forward-looking statements made by or on behalf of Valence. These and other risk factors that could affect actual results are discussed in our periodic reports filed with the SEC, including our Annual Report on Form 10-K for the year ended March 31, 2007, and the reader is directed to these statements for a further discussion of important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those in the forward-looking statements. The forward-looking statements included in this press release are made only as of the date of this release. Valence does not undertake any obligation to update or supplement any forward-looking statements to reflect subsequent events or circumstances and cannot assure that projected results or events will be achieved.

MULTIMEDIA AVAILABLE: http://www.businesswire.com/cgi-bin/mmg.cgi?eid=5557486



Contact:
For Valence Technology, Inc.
Pierpont Communications
Media Relations
Helen Rodriguez, 512-448-4950
or
Pierpont Investor Relations
Director of Investor Relations
A. Pierre Dubois, 512-527-2921

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Valence Technology, Inc.


8)
 
PJD said:
For a replacement 48 volt pack in an e-max, I'd need 260 cells. Or 310 for a 60-volt pack. - Just doesn't seem practical.

I'll look up the contact for the valence batteries...
Click to expand...

there are 10ah, 12ah, 20ah,30ah,50ah cells currently available from yesa - this is an option.

48v would require 16 cells, not that hard to put into ur scooter.

it just sounds like the scooter was designed for shorter range. i get a max 42k range out of my electric bike!
 
Josh K. said:
Hi Folks,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oJsBznry1o
Click to expand...

welcome to the board. love the video :)
 
Looks like the exterior of the battery box is weather proof except for the contact area which is easy enough to cap.
Nice to see the futur looking brighter, with more choices.
 
Josh, is that $1500 for a 48v 40ah setup?

Is the BMS built into the package?

Do you know what the maximum discharge current is?

Those do look very nice.
 
I LOVE this guy's name :lol:
“By definition, ‘epoch’ means a period marked by radical changes and new developments,â€￾ said Robert L. Kanode, president and CEO of Valence.

As in K-anode :?:

Don
 
BiGH,

As a victim of poor Chinese workmanship, including the "silicone" batteries that came in the e-max, forgive me for being suspicious of products from Chinese businessmen who won't at least devote the resources to grammar and fluency-check their English-language website.

BTW, I can get about about 42km range with new batteries, warm weather, and avoiding the large hills. Others in flat areas have reported up to 35 miles/55km range.

Fecher,

Josh quoted me $750 each for the 12-volt 40AH U1's. I don't know if there is any haggle room... The $1500 was for the 24 V system. I don't know if that includes the U-BMS. Hope so.

The economics of these batteries are convincing in my case. One $3000 pack (or $3750 if I set it up for full time 60V operation). They would provide the mileage of perhaps eight, $500 lead-acid battery packs. The troubleis, they are "too good" as they are likely to outlast the life of the scooter itself.

But there is a definitely a cringe factor in shelling out that $3000 up front, plus the spouse-veto problem.
 
PJD said:
BiGH,

As a victim of poor Chinese workmanship, including the "silicone" batteries that came in the e-max, forgive me for being suspicious of products from Chinese businessmen who won't at least devote the resources to grammar and fluency-check their English-language website.

BTW, I can get about about 42km range with new batteries, warm weather, and avoiding the large hills. Others in flat areas have reported up to 35 miles/55km range.
Click to expand...
Fully agree - its hard especially when you've been burnt!

PJD said:
Fecher,

Josh quoted me $750 each for the 12-volt 40AH U1's. I don't know if there is any haggle room... The $1500 was for the 24 V system. I don't know if that includes the U-BMS. Hope so.

The economics of these batteries are convincing in my case. One $3000 pack (or $3750 if I set it up for full time 60V operation). They would provide the mileage of perhaps eight, $500 lead-acid battery packs. The troubleis, they are "too good" as they are likely to outlast the life of the scooter itself.

But there is a definitely a cringe factor in shelling out that $3000 up front, plus the spouse-veto problem.
Click to expand...

The thing is though that as long as the dimensions support it, they would be very useful for other projects, and as long as they pay for themselves (maybe twice over) in petrol savings then you can always sell them after you've finished with them.

40ah though is a heck of a lot!

I get to uni with 6ah (25klm trip) with mild peddling. at an average of 39kph. 40ah would mean i could probably do there and back at full throttle the whole way no peddling!

either way its up to you - and its your level of comfort that has to be satisfied. Good batteries though are useful for other projects! crap batteries get thrown/ given away.
 
BiGH,

The electric bicycles certainly have an advantage over full size scooters as far as the affordability of trying out the more expensive battery technologies.

But I decided a while back (and local laws favor) a large street-legal cycle that can go with the other traffic. The e-max has a top speed of close to 60 kph at 48 volts and 75 kph at 60 volts. But with lead acid batteries anyway, there is definitely a point of diminishing efficiency (especially in my hilly town) due to sheer weight. The current lead acid pack - which is 48 volt/ 40AH, with a 20AH "booster" battery for intermittent 60 volt usage, is about 62 kg. Total cycle weight, about 135 kg.
 
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